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Hoss
now you are getting nasty

tailskid

My Feedback: (34)

"Peter Principle".....haven't heard of that concept for maybe 30+ years! Oh so true then, so true today!

Stickbuilder

You guys still can't see the obvious.

1. Steve was given a directive to have no contact with the Grounds Maintenance Department.

2. Steve chose to ignore the directive.

3. Steve was given the option: Resignation or Termination.

4. Steve chose to resign.

Has it occurred to any of you that something transpired to require the first directive to be given to Steve? Perhaps the Department head complained to the Director (who knows?) I do know that in my business, I have been forced to make certain departments, off-limits to employees from other departments. This was done in order to maintain a harrassment free workplace. In no instance did I make that decision out of malice toward any employee. The directive was given in order to keep work flowing, and to insure that we did not stand to be found negligent or guilty of any complicancy in regard to protecting another employee.

Decisions of this nature are distasteful, and should never be forced upon management. Sad to say, often employees find immature behavior to be entertaining, and never stop to consider that this behavior detracts from the workplace, and puts the employer in jeopardy.

The outcome? I was forced to terminate one of the top producers, since he chose to ignore the directive. He filed a suit for wrongful termination, and he failed to prevail. In short, he lost. Nobody won. The company lost a million plus dollar producer, and the ex-employee lost a six figure job. He also probably had to go home and tell his wife that he lost his job because he couldn't follow a simple directive.

Bill, AMA 4720
WACO Brotherhood #1
Bulldog Brotherhood #95

combatpigg

My Feedback: (3)

Stickbuilder, if this sequence of events played out as professionally and controlled as you describe the way it should be [could be] done, then your points are well taken. Problem is, what happened out there was more like a scene from the Dukes of Hazard with Boss Hog slapping Cletus over the head with his 10 gallon hat. I have no reason to doubt SKs' account of JCs' actions that morning. JCs' actions were purely bush league, and 3rd world.

STLPilot

My Feedback: (21)

Who doesn't believe it? Of course I believe there was a bit of misrepresentation and some information held back for his own self satisfaction. But other than that, he painted a nice picture, a real work of art. Which is funny because even some people can be drawn into a red splatter on a white background and pay $1 million dollars for it because they believe that's art too. I guess some people are drawn into certain realities, under certain circumstances, for certain reasons.

But what you can't see and what you weren't told by SK is what happened up until that morning, starting from the moment JC told SK to keep away from the maintenance dept and then moving backwards. You've passed judgment on JC based on the reaction, but not the action.

combatpigg

My Feedback: (3)

STL, "bush league" in this case is baseball talk, it means "minor league". Remember, 40 pages and 100,000 words ago I asserted that there might very well be a story behind this story that SK isn't telling, but that isn't why I take issue with the mechanics of this firing.

STLPilot

My Feedback: (21)

Gotcha, fixed my post.

abel_pranger

Bill-

You mean that JC's story 'leaked' via Wayne Yeager states those 'facts.' Not in SK's first-person account. What makes hearsay facts so obvious to you that 'us guys' are blind by your reckoning?

Abel

KidEpoxy

What? When did the AMA say that?
Cause it would seem if the AMA put that up on page 1 we wouldnt have gotten to page 25 of folks asking for just that kind of info from them. Or are you talking about gossip / criminals leaking info?

Get that confirmed and we can put this thread to rest within 2 or 3 pages
Advertizing works, if they just keep reciting the gossip it will be fact.
... just like the 13w twisty lightbulbs and the company lies about wattage used (0.22amps @ 125v accoring to UL)



What? We dont have all the info? We didnt hear from both sides before passing judgement?
Wow, I cant believe nobody in 30pages had thought to try to get the AMA side of what happened before passing judgement. Of course, some folks are proud of passing judgement from the very first post (STL's ability to divinate allowed him to know the whole story before Post#2, as he says he made judgement on post#1 <see post756>)

littlecrankshaf

My Feedback: (58)

Kid,

It is amazing how some build their position on what isn't known... This thread contains very little that is known and what is known came from Steve himself. In the absence of any other first hand info to consider the scale tips decidedly in his favor…regardless of what STL and his partner 50% say.

At least Steve had the courage to post his perspective and take whatever the consequences like a man...I can respect that! Until some real contradictive information is made available I will continue to discount the likes of STL and his BS.

We lost Steve because he and his son volunteered to help mow for an upcoming event while he was on vacation. That is what we know as of right now!

STLPilot

My Feedback: (21)

And here I thought you had such valuable information which vindicated your friend. So much for that BS farmer joe.

tadawson

If you work for a buffoon with personal agendas and a very poor sense of ethics, then yes, that's EXACTLY how a lot of folks lose their jobs these days. It's not about performance - it's about politics and kissing ass . . .

- Tim

KidEpoxy

I am still looking forward to getting the truth out of Muncie,
and when we get the whole story,
I might say JC did the right thing.

That is the best part of this thread,
no matter what info if any comes out of Muncie,
I can either say I dont judge without evidence, or even say JC was right to fire SK...
All along I have been asking for info, not declaring anyone guilty
Thats right, I would be able to say Cherry was right without backpedalling, should we actually get info that shows that.

All of page1 was folks sayin IF it were true JC is a jerk, and they acknowleged they didnt have the whole story.

Of course, STL had made up his mind before post2, and even makes one(or more) of our Muncie folks a criminal
(He alleges to have AMA personal info, and asserts being giving that info is illegal.... but then, he also encouraged us to call Muncie & lie about our Identity & Pretence to get info he says AMA would be criminal to give... so I'm not sure what he is upto.)

Stickbuilder

Kid,

There is the privacy act to consider here. The AMA and whomever gives any information that would be considered in the private domain, would open themselves and the AMA to serious liability. In short, whatever happened is not any of anyone's business, except for the parties involved. You can beat this issue until you are blue in the face, and you will get nothing from either the AMA or Jim Cherry. It's none of your business, nor is it any of anyone elses. You can posture and rant all you want, but you won't change it. Steve is gone. Jim is still there. Those are facts. Anything else is pure conjecture.

Bill, AMA 4720
WACO Brotherhood #1
Bulldog Brotherhood #85

KidEpoxy

Stick-
So are agreeing with STL that the leak he alegedly got was a criminal act?
Violating Indiana privacy laws regarding job performance.... that is what we call folks that break the law, a criminal, right?

If JC will fire a guy for riding a mower, what will he do to the guy that is criminally leaking AMA private info?
We know it wasnt Jim Rice, he knows how to not blab info to random guys.
We know it wasnt AMA Wayne.... uh... cause he was here talking about SK.... uh.... um....

Stick, how do Wayne's posts fit in you & STL's legal scheme again?

Silent-AV8R

Still at it??

Amazing.

Stickbuilder

Kid,

It's not a legal scheme. If you will do a little research on the law as it pertains to the termination, or resignation of an employee, you will see what I'm talking about. You simply can't discuss it. If another prospective employer asks for a reference, all you can legally tell them is the starting and ending dates of their employment. If you tell them more than that, you leave yourself open to a lawsuit that you won't win.

Bill, AMA 4720
WACO Brotherhood #1
Bulldog Brotherhood #85

KidEpoxy

that sounds a lot like "can go into closed session" but not "have to go into closed session" of the Sunshine stuff

So, to be clear,
if they say more than the Starting Date & Ending Date they have broken the law?
(what I refer to as Committing Crime)
.... or just a high potential for Libel/Slander info & suits.
.... potential, as in, it wont be libel if it is true.... leaving just potential slander.... which is hard to do if you heap praise on the guy.

I can tell you guys know exactly where I am taking this,
and it is a hoot to wrangle yall to say 'yes it is illegal, but not when AMA emplyees do it.'

combatpigg

My Feedback: (3)

Please tell me about all of these law suits. How am I going to know if my ex-employer has given out information about me that a prospective employer uses to deep six my resume?
If I list an ex-employer as a reference, then I am implying that it is OK to contact them about my performance record. The worst thing an ex-employer could do besides give me a bad review is to say, "no comment", that looks just as bad....in the world that I live in, that is.
No matter what your profession or trade, it is a small world out there and word about your skill and reputation travels fast and freely....and that is the way it should be. In the real world it is the job hunter whose resume has landed in my lap who has no right to know what I found out about him or about what who said what to who, he is the one who must patiently and quietly sit there and wait for either a thumbs or not from me. If not, he is shown the door and his resume becomes compost.

Stickbuilder

CP,

You probably won't know what information has been divulged. There have been instances where the prospective employer has told the applicant that his previous work history did not support the application, or that the work history was not satisfactory, thus the reluctance to give any other information other than hire date/ ending date. It's all about C.Y.A.

Bill, AMA 4720
WACO Brotherhood #1

KidEpoxy

Stick-
again, the language that has permeated the workplace is CYA,
not Obey The Law.

It is about potential to say the wrong thing, so to CYA they choose to say nothing.
Where is the PenalCode that prohibits employers from praising employee's performance in letters of recomendation? Or praising them over the phone.

it is Avoid Lawsuits for saying the wrong thing, by choosing to say nothing,
not Obey the Law banning anything but start & end dates.


I notice nobody wants to talk about Wayne right now....
now that they are posting how sayng anything is illegal. [8D]
(STL, I'm looking your way)

Stickbuilder

Kid,

If information that was given in good faith, by a previous employer is found to be erroneous (even slightly) then the previous employer can (and has been) found guilty of libelious information, which is punishable both criminally, as well as civilly. That is the reason that most employers only give dates of employment.

In this case, what business of yours (not personally, but the membership, at large) is precisely what happened? Will it make Steve regain his job? Probably not. Would the disemination of that information cost Mr. Cherry his job? Again, probably not. So just exactly what do you hope to gain with that information?

The best advice here is to let it die. Nothing that will be discussed in this forum will alter the outcome, other than to strengthen the resolve of some of the involved parties. The only thing that could alter the outcome would be a suit for wrongful termination, and the courts of law would decide the resolution of that, certainly nothing would result from the outcome of this thread.

Bill, AMA 4720
WACO Brotherhood #1

combatpigg

My Feedback: (3)

You don't have to be real sharp to know that this thread will not alter the course of history, or of the future. It is beyond the scope of discussion to spend any time be-laboring this point. What I am after is the personal satisfaction that my protest of this ham fisted, bush league spectacle has been heard and understood loud and clear. Business at MY AMA should not be conducted like another episode of the Andy Griffith Show.

The firing of a man is one of the most serious things that another man can do, and in this case it was botched. Based on the grounds for why he was actually fired, [the action that caused JC to pull the trigger], this case would have the ACLU licking their chops.

Stickbuilder

Then why not drop a dime (or a quarter or is it thirty five cents now) where it might do some good? Give your DVP a call (his phone number is in his monthly column in MA) or even call the Executive Director, or send him an e-mail, voicing your displeasure? All of the DVP's come up for election occasionally, and if enough members have a problem with the handling of this situation, then they will probably listen. I seriously doubt that if the four of you will make them pay much attention though. Most of the rank and file with whom I have talked, feel that there was more to the situation than what Steve related. Most who have any knowledge concerning what happened, feel that Jim was justified in his actions. I suppose that you can add my name to that list as well.

Bill, AMA 4720
WACO Brotherhood #1

combatpigg

My Feedback: (3)

"Most People" polled also think that the Buffalo Bills weren't cheating because all the other teams use electronic surveilance of the signal calling too. So based on that, how impressed do you want me to be with your opinion polling about this matter?
I don't really care how many people think one way or the other about this, that does not matter to me. I do not base my opinions about things on opinion polls, popularity contests, etc. It's childish to even make this an issue. If there are only 4 here who think about this like me, than that is the way it is.
Same goes with calling a DVP, I have too much respect for their free time to waste it with something that they have no control over. Again, I think that would be just as childish as someone who calls 911 over a dead car battery.