Jim Thomerson

7% voted! That means it was not just the CL and FF people who voted, but a few RC fliers as well.

KidEpoxy

Right now the AMA is what it is.
We can identify problems & try to get them fixed, or we can ride along with what it has become.

The crusaders demanding everyone to say "AMA is Infallable" is part of what needs to be fixed.
How can we make the AMA better, if we cant admit it could be better than it is.

---
Frank,
if you are really interested in the previous discussion, here are some links to threads that you would probably like to get involved in:
[link=http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/m_6420142/tm.htm]The e-ticket cometh [/link]
[link=http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/m_6718500/tm.htm]AMA's new Park Plilot Program [/link]
[link=http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/m_6696318/tm.htm]Try to guess, new Parkflyer program cost (not really a guess anymore $ [/link]
[link=http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/m_6940449/tm.htm]AMA club site separation [/link]
[link=http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/m_6876356/tm.htm]Should PFs pay less for ALMOST same benefits as regular AMA members? [/link]

Stickbuilder

I'm positive that we see what you think as soon as you do. I don't think that you even read what you have written. What's next Dion, are you trying to get on the AMA payroll?

Bill, AMA 4720

STLPilot

My Feedback: (21)

Ummm no Stick, besides the town of Muncie really isn't my cup of joe. I like being packed in a subway car each morning. I also like to be able to choose from more then 500 restaurants for lunch, all within walking distance of less then a few blocks. Now if the AMA moved their HQ to NYC, then maybe I would give them the privilege of part time consultant for my services. So to answer your question .... no, not in a million years would I want to make a living dealing with ... some of you guys.

But I really don't think it's not as bad as some of you guys make it out to be. Of course the AMA has changed over the years, but seems to me some people accepted it .... others didn't .... and others just flat out accept it. Yes, there are more then 2 running a group of 150,000 members now ... no shocker there. Since most AMA members don't voice their opinion in what is most likely the AMA's largest online voice portal, I think the majority that doesn't come here are happy with the AMA and all they have done.

murocflyer

Kid,

Thanks for the links. I just read them over. Took some time. I'm still unclear of the issue and how I can help. The links you provided are all links to RCU threads with the same guys hashing over the same perceived "problem." Not to belittle the issue, but as I mentioned before, the other two RC forums that I hang out at welcome the PPP and see it as a good thing. I'm not sure I comprehend what I need to do as I'm thinking that there is bigger fish to fry that fighting this program. Wouldn't efforts be better served by helping it succeed rather than trying to segregate other AMA members? Wouldn't it be better to extend an open hand rather than a clenched fist to these new AMA members? How would you feel if you were new and was treated this way?


One more question. You said in an earlier post you dropped down to the PPP level. How did they prorate your membership dues?

Thanks,

Frank

Edited after reading links.

RCKen

My Feedback: (9)

This is a great discussion here guys. But let's keep from getting personal with the discussion. Let's try to keep the personal jabs out of the discussion.

Ken

Stickbuilder

Frank,

The PPP program segregates the members who join that group by design.

1. They are on a different membership payment plan.
2. They cannot vote.
3. They cannot nominate.
4. They (by the virtue of their limited liability insurance) don't automatically qualify for membership at all AMA chartered clubs.


It is not the mainstream AMA member who is segregating the Park Pilots. It is the AMA itself that has done this. At the club fields where I hold membership, and do my flying, we already had members who flew electrics, foamies, super light park type models. These guys still fly these models for fun and relaxation. They are not segregated, nor are they discriminated against because they choose to fly a model that uses a different form of power. They are, however, full AMA members, and as such have the insurance coverage that the several clubs involved require. Where is the segregation?

Bill, AMA 4720

KidEpoxy

From the first post of the first thread I linked:

STL says Joyce emailed him-
I'm not seing the phrase "and not being part of existing clubs" as the members causing division, but that very clearly is segregation & division, by design & intent, from Muncie. That is the part of the program that got bi-partisan opposition here at RCU. Folks from both sides of old arguements stand together in saying the program is to divisive... if something is so bad that I join up with Red & Stick against it, that is saying something.

We would love to have Parkies join us. We have said we need something to entice Parkies to join us, but this PPP setup isnt because Muncie is creating a tier that isnt really memebers... what did I say about it back in September-
Standard Members & SubStandard Members
Full Members & HardlyMembers
Real Members & Kinda Members

PPP is not joining us, by design it is built to be segregated enough to make them hate it enough to upgrade to Standard Member from SubStandard Member.


But this PPP chat should really be in the threads about PPP,
that is why I listed them, so Frank can see where to take up this line of discussion in the proper threads

Glacier Girl

My Feedback: (4)

Well I have to agree with all of ya. The AMA is not what we want it to be.

Instead of posting our complaints and such, why not do this. Most of the normal posters here, all belong to clubs. Ask your club mates, "What's wrong with the AMA, and how do we get it fixed?"

Make a list of what you/your club feels is wrong, and suggestions as to how to make it right. And screw the old boy network and go right to the head of the AMA. Email Dave with the list and fixes, (he's always been good about getting back to me anytime I've posed a question or comment,) that way any underlings won't be able to get their hands on the list and "modify" it.


See what kind of answer you get back, and then take what ever next step is necessary.
He is the President, at least for the 7% of us that voted. As for the 93% that didn't, they probably won't even blink an eye if stuff changes.

STLPilot

My Feedback: (21)

93% of current members didn't vote last election. And besides what would the PPP's need to vote for since they have the full backing of the AMA, which includes Muncie and the EC.

The AMA is trying to bring people into the program. The e-market is flourishing ... but where are the flourishing members? They are not here ... they are there. You can't segregate a group of people you don't even have in the first place. Once you have them on a hook, then they can decide which way to go.

Stickbuilder

Dion,

For starters, you don't have them on any hook. They are not flocking to join. Has anyone seen the numbers posted anywhere since the PPP came into being? I don't think that you will see anyone willing to post these numbers. It is appearantly not working.

Bill, AMA 4720

STLPilot

My Feedback: (21)

From what I gathered Bill, the AMA is shooting for a long term business plan with this particular strategy. Most long term business plans don't exactly happen overnite, they take time. Right now the program is in it's infancy and trial phases, next comes growth phase, but that might not be for a year or even two. Some of the programs work ... some don't. But you'll never find the ones that do or don't work until they've been implimented and well past their trial phases. Case in point .... buddy box program failed ... but the TAG program succeeded.

With a fresh ED and President, for now, I give them the benefit of the doubt .... for success. This is why I don't blame them for staying far away from this board.

But I do disagree, there is a hook, lower price point for starters. That's always a hook. But this time DM is holding the rod and it seems to me that he'll do a good job of reeling them in and keeping them on the deck. Faith ... it's a good thing.

Stickbuilder

Once again, Have you seen any numbers? Dion, what is your problem answering any question that is put to you directly? If I asked you what time it was, you would start telling me how to make a watch. EXACTLY HOW MANY NEW PPP MEMBERS HAVE SIGNED UP SINCE THE PROGRAM WAS UNVEILLED??? If you are not privy to that information, just say so. There is no shame in saying I don't know. You, however, act as though you have an inside track to all kinds of information concerning the PPP program. Let's hear it.

Bill, AMA 4720

STLPilot

My Feedback: (21)

Once again you are asking me a question that I or nobody has the information too. And why would you ask me and not Tony?

I act as tho I have information? No Bill, I had faith the program was coming from the moment Joyce sent us all those emails. I thought it was a great answer to a much needed question, as did 85% of the EC, your EC including your DVP.

I don't really care what the numbers look like Bill, I'm just impressed with how the AMA, less a handful of members, is actually working hard to make it work. So numbers don't mean anything unless you have a force behind it ... and I think the AMA is doing a find job at that force and that's what's most important ... from my point of view.

Hossfly

Well, STL, I gather that you are gathering the weeds rather than the flowers.

Here is what Mr. Cherry reported to the EC on Jan 26, 2008

Quoted from th minutes of that meeting as now on the AMA Web site:

>>>>>>>>>>>>
5. Executive Director’s Report
//snip//

b. Five Year Plan: Work on the current five year plan has been suspended; Eric Williams spent Friday working with Council and staff examining the content of a true strategic plan. He noted that long-range planning is valuable, but the current focus should be on things that can be worked on immediately. The next steps for the EC will be to focus on a set of priority goals, do an assessment of allies and advocates that can help us, and look at an analysis of strengths and weaknesses to better identify the capabilities of the direction to move.
<<<<<<<<

Don't overlook that the staff is telling the EC what they must do. Had I been the AMA Pres. at that meeting, the "gatherings" would have been 180 degrees the other way -- And that is one true fact! [>:]

STLPilot

My Feedback: (21)

Alright Hoss, I'll bite, when was the 5 year plan, which was recently scrapped, initiated? (My money is that it was planned under a different ED and Preisdent). This what happens when you come under new ... and improved ... leadership, old policy becomes outdated policy.

Seems to me the priority goal of the PPP program was already checked off.

OVSS Boss

I read this and kind of wonder what you all feel that the AMA staff should be doing. One time in my life, I worked for a major horse association as part of the staff in a very public department. Yes, the EC did ask for information on subjects, but many times we brought issues to them that we had identified as issues and brought what we felt was needed to be done from what we saw as our vantage point, not always for the members and not always for the association. We did our jobs just like the staff at AMA does.

When JC or any staff is in front of the EC, they are going to do eactly what I did in my job. I am sure that we can find requests from the EC for information, study, and action from the staff in the EC minutes. I know good an well, the Nats have been changed a bunch over the last few years as directed by the EC so not everything they do is under the thumb of the AMA Staff.

Marc

abel_pranger

Marc-

Good rationalization, not good justification.

Abel

Rat1

[link]http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showpost.php?p=9229717&postcount=4475[/link]

abel_pranger

Tnx for that link, Rat. So, 170 new AMA members under the PPP, and as of a couple of days ago there were 300 AMA members signed up for the PPP partner program to help them. Looks like Frank in VA has sold what he was selling, in spades. Maybe there's a job for him in Muncie, if he doesn't already have one as some have suggested.

Abel

decay

This is a great thread, & of course all the old AMA forum regulars
are summiting their two cents. What a classic thread boys!

Stickbuilder

And with those who decreased their membership, and those who renewed late as PPP members, that's a grand total of 270 Members holding PPP membership. Wow, they are really setting the woods on fire. Hope that 60 who cut back their membership are not part of the 7% who voted in the election for AMA President. We can't afford to lose that many who do vote.

Decay, glad to see you right here with we other regulars.

Bill, AMA 4720

Hossfly

Hey Dion, you're doing great. You are HALF right. Kind of difficult to NOT get the new President thing correct. [8D] OTOH that new Pres has been there for a long time and he knows what is and what isn't.

>>>>>>>>>>>>

August 12, 2007 http://www.modelaircraft.org/aboutam...ecminutes.aspx

EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR’S REPORT (Appendix I)
20 Year Draft Plan: The ED reviewed Council’s comments/suggestions.

MOTION II: Moved by M. Smith (IX), and seconded by B. Teague (IV) to approve Headquarters staff move forward and develop a 3-5 year strategic plan; this is the next step in the previously introduced 20-year plan.
MOTION passed: 11-Y; 2-N (III, VI) (NOTICE: The current PRES. then D-2 DVP voted FOR! )

The 3-5 year strategic plan will be sent to Council for their review prior to it being presented at the October EC meeting

October 27, 2007 http://www.modelaircraft.org/aboutam...ecminutes.aspx

5. Executive Director’s Report

a. da Vinci Vision – 5-year strategic plan: The ED reviewed what has been done to date; if Council approves the 5-year plan, they will receive a detailed Draft Program of Work for 2008. Following discussion it was decided that Council will review the 5-year plan prior to the January meeting and forward suggestions/changes to the ED for incorporation into the document. The intent of the strategic planning meeting will be to review the 5-year plan item by item and prioritize the items contained therein so headquarters can move forward. The ED thanked headquarters staff for their efforts in developing this 5-year plan.


Then comes Jan. 08 and the ED reports to EC as above: Sheep-herd the long range planning ! [:@]
<<<<<<<<<<<
STL, just how much money were you willing to lose on that, "My money is that it was planned..." ??? Hey Donate it to the ED's 2008 Bonus.

I relate it to United Airlines where the LONG RANGE PLANNING STAFF met twice a day, AM and PM. Guess that was the plan they needed to cut employees' pay and give the directors another multi-million $$$ bonus.

busted2props

My Feedback: (9)

Wow, really? Kinda funny how an employee owned airline operates, huh? I worked for UA for awhile, good times, bad pay, long hours and you know the rest.

Do you think we are headed for a narrow sighted and short armed leadership? Maybe the vote is still out?

I hope that DM is a breath of fresh air. If not, is impeachment out of the question? LOL?

KidEpoxy

Like I said in a gone post,
Dont worry about my vote, I'll pop back up to $58 for the election year or ... special event.