P-51B

My Feedback: (5)

I was looking through the July 2008 AMA Model Aviation magazine, and noticed a half page blurb about the "First" Chartered PPP club on page 9. Along with the blurb is a photo of the club members holing up their aircraft. One of the gentlemen in the left of the photo is proudly holding up his F-27C Stryker. There is another similar aircraft in the center of the photo.

From Horizon Hobbies website at http://www.horizonhobby.com/Products...ProdID=PKZ4200 ;

Tech Notes
Attention Pilots:
The F-27C can reach speeds of 117.3 feet per second or more. We strongly recommend that you fly it at an AMA sanctioned flying field or any other large, outdoor flying site well away from populated areas or crowds. Attempting to fly this aircraft in a confined space could result in harm to people or property.


From the AMA website at http://www.modelaircraft.org/parkflyer.aspx#Definition :

Park Flyer Definition:
Park Flyer models will weigh two pounds or less and be incapable of reaching speeds greater than 60 mph.

117.3 fps is approimately 80 mph. So, based on the Horizon Tech Notice, the aircraft is capable of reaching speeds greater than the 60 mph specified for AMA coverage.


So, has the "First" AMA chartered PPP club been immortalized, within AMA's own flagship publication, as breaking the rules from day one???

abel_pranger

Not breaking any AMA rules if the gentleman is an Open Member.

Abel

KidEpoxy

Gets back to just what is a PPP Chartered Club?
Did they go ahead & rework the charter to have A, B & D but Not C of the PPP... or some such?


Why not let that Supposed Open member fly glow there?
Because it is a PPP Charter?
..... yet non-ppp planes can fly there by open guys.... which is what Glow is.
So, did they pick & choose which PPP provisions they will follow at this "PPP Chartered" club?

Hey, my old 340 Barracuda was CA Street Legal.... except it was missing a bunch of required equipment & smogged like a ****... but since it followed MOST of the laws I like to say it was CA Street Legal, no matter what those words actually mean.
</sarcasm>

Just what about their charter is "PPP",
as opposed to all the previously existing "ElectricOnly" clubs or soaring clubs? Just from what I've read here, it looks like that club is about as PPP as 7Up was "All Natural Nothing Artificial". Fun to say, but not actually true. Just another No-Glow club like we've had for years & years.


Did anyone at Muncie or MA bother to read what PPP is?
or what the heck the legendary mythical Urban PPP Charter is/requires?

k3 valley flyer

My Feedback: (18)

Is it strawberries in the blue berry patch or the other way around? IS AMA going to monitor the berry pickers? Not likely, to many rules, AMA one type club one type mebership is already enough problems!

STLPilot

My Feedback: (21)

Nah the AMA forum members will do a better job policing PPP clubs than the AMA can do. Or better yet, maybe the clubs will just handle it themselves. Afterall I've been to a regular RC club before and saw someone breaking the AMA safety code and nobody said anything about it ... has anyone else ever witnessed something along those lines?

In the end the AMA will police the clubs in the form of not paying claims for people who do not follow the safety code, it's that simple.

KidEpoxy

STL makes an interesting point.

Now MA/Muncie will be included in any lawsuits at that club,
for willfully allowing them to continue activities that would void the insurance.

"Mr Cherry, were you aware they were holding activities that violated the terms of the chartered Site Insurance,
and did willfully maintain their charter after becoming aware of their uninsurable activities?"
Well... uh.. You see, its like this- The clubs are <.>
"Yes or No will do Mr Cherry. Yes you allowed them to fly uninsured at the site, or No you stopped it when you became aware of it."

I'm sure common sense and justice will weigh heavily in any deep pockets negligence lawsuits over this,
as mush as common sense & justice weigh in most insane lawsuits ($mils for Hot Coffe)

abel_pranger

Yo! KE-

This is getting a little weird, contemplating mythical litigation over mythical PPP chartered club rules and restrictions.

As you are the only PPP member I know of, here's a little exercise (or 3...) for you as an involuntary test dummy, trying your ability to get PPP info from the AMA website:

1) Where are the distinctions between an Open AMA chartered club and a PPP chartered club to be found?

2) Where are PPP chartered club restrictions that distinguish a PPP club from any other chartered club to found?

3) Where is the PPP club charter kit?

4) How did the Las Vegas club billed as the 1st chartered PPP club get chartered as a PPP club?

5) Is anybody in Munchie serious about this PPP crud?

Abel

KidEpoxy

Abel,
I asked the lion's share of those questions my self in my first post in this thread.

But I find it troubling that the non-PPP guys get to know about the PPP Chartered club in their MA magazine,
whereas I havent gotten any litter-ature about it as a PPP guy.
I went to the AMA-PPP webbie and couldnt see anything about this #1 PPP Chartered club, nor any mention of a new way to charter for PPP. I know we have looked into the mythical Urban PPP Club chartering before, and debunked it kinda solidly... so I am with you in not seeing exactly what the heck they did.

<edit
As a PPP member,
I have recieved no information about a new way to charter,
nor did I find any information on a new way to charter on the AMA Presents: PPP Website.
>

You are a step ahead of the PPP members, MA has apparently covered it and we PPPs dont get that magazine. Heck, I didnt even know it was in Vegas. What else does it say about them? Are they even Urban, or is it a PPP club out in the middle of the mojave where glow/turbine/DynamitePowered planes can tear up the desert?

Has anyone looked up the club on the net, see what the club itself has to say about being all PPPy (PPPesque? PPPish?)

Well, at least now we have a club to lookup on the PPP Club Locator... wherever that list is,
I should bump that thread with this new data [8D]

STL has claimed to be a PPP on more than one occasion
I doubt they kept him in the dark on this.

HEY STL!
What has changed since the last time we debunked the mythical Urban PPP Club Charter, as being a plain charter?
What makes that club a PPP Chartered Club?


-

So we now have a PPP club.
In June.
Lets have Peabody fire up the WayBack Machine to 8months ago
and look at what folks were saying about our concerns that there were no PPP clubs to fly at, and their claims of speed/ease with which these PPP Chartered clubs would just pop up to fill the need.

Is there a need for PPP Chartered clubs?
We just had the PPP guys go 6 months without a single one in the whole US.

Stickbuilder

Good Questions all.....Here is one more.....Does or has the City of New York allowed a PPP club to form and are they allowing them to be flown in Central Park?[:@]

I just had to ask...

Bill, AMA 4720

STLPilot

My Feedback: (21)

Page 4 of the club charter kit, check off the Park Pilot box, that should just about do it. Anything above and beyond that checkmark is up to the club to decide, not the AMA, as usual. Once again people overthinking a simple and obvious solution .... and answer, in the name of defaming a hard working not for profit organization.

Yes to question 1. No to question 2. No flying objects, even rubber or kites allowed in Central Park. But they have been tested before.

Oh and a little side note ... do you think they were really the first Park Pilot club ... or maybe some good old fashioned PR??? Fluff sells .... always has, always will. One thing you can say about American's and still keep yourself patriotic (seeing it's so true and well known) .... American's will buy into ANYTHING and groups like McDonalds, WalMart, Tower Hobbies, The Inventor of the Pet Rock and even the AMA know how to exploit that weakness.

Yes even you "regular" AMA members are suckers too. And if you can't stand them so much, why don't you guys just .... quit???

KidEpoxy

And what does that little checkbox do?
Allows glow planes at the club if the "PPP Club" member is AMAOpen?
Allows 3lb 70mph e-planes at the club if the "PPP Club" member is AMA Open?

What is different about chartering as PPP instead of for real, what does checking that box do?



What, are you accusing AMA of telling lies to its members?
What is the name of the person at Muncie you believe is lieing to you about this in print?
The editors of MA? The entire EC for allowing it? JC for having his staffers do it?
Who is telling you this lie?
And why are their supperiors allowing it?
How high does this conspiracy theory go STL? If "they" are not telling us the truth, who are "they", STL?

You have cast a stone Sir, praytell at whom did you throw?

Stickbuilder

Gee, and I seem to recall a year or so ago, there was going to be a City ordained club for Central Park.......

Bill, AMA 4720

Red Scholefield

My Feedback: (9)

Good Grief!

STLPilot

My Feedback: (21)

Didn't happen, although the AMA and DM was very supportive while the initiative was taking place. However I got over it.

Life's short Stick, you should let little things like a few magazine articles, picture on a cover, or even the success of the PPP get to you so much. The magazine benefits others, so does the PPP. Might as well live with it, they are both here to stay and that goes for me too.

P-51B

My Feedback: (5)

So then, what is a PPP chartered club?

The title leads me to believe that ONLY PPP "qualified" planes can be flown there.

Stickbuilder

I'd still like to know about all the bragging that there would be a flying club located in Central Park.

Bill, AMA 4720

STLPilot

My Feedback: (21)

There's a shocker. Seems to me you always need answers to your questions answered. Why does the AMA support the PPP. Why do they run articles you don't like in their magazine and so on and so on and so on.

Bill if you want the answer to your question, your more than welcome to call my assistant and schedule and appointment with me to discuss this, perhaps sometime after the holidays. I don't think it will take too long to have such a discussion, maybe long enough for me to give you a 2 word answer. So PM me for the number.

crash99

My Feedback: (3)

Wow guys, What do you care if they have a stricker they may or may not reach the speed claimed? To reach the max. speeds is based on the correct motor / prop / batt right? What do you care at all? Did they look like they were enjoying the hobby? Or are you just looking for something neg. in this club that is getting good PR?

I am for one, happy to see a club having fun togeather. Maybe some of you should give it a try? You might fall in love with flying planes again.

Crash99

Stickbuilder

Why are you addressing this to me? I said nothing about max speeds, stickers, clubs having fun....or any of the other things that you mentioned. I was asking Dion about the Central Park Club that he was bragging about about a year ago, and was just asking if it came to pass or not.

Bill, AMA 4720

abel_pranger

Seems like a good question to ask AMA. They don't seem very forthcoming with that info, however.
It appears to be a stealth program.
How far is Area 51 (which also does not exist) from Las Vegas?

Abel

busted2props

My Feedback: (9)

Abel,
It's called above TOP SECERT. No one has the right to know, nor does anyone have the information requested. HMMMM...As an Open Member, can I fly my glow/gas with the PPP club? (If I am a member of said club?)

Stickbuilder

Dion,

I have a better idea. If you really think that you are important enough, call me and leave a message. If I think you are important enough, I'll call you back.

Bill, AMA 4720

abel_pranger

Mean Man-

As you say there is the need to know qualification, and nobody has it. If I answer your question (if I have the answer but I don't) I'll have to kill you.
I'll of course deny telling you this if asked, but here's a clue: According to the article in MA, "Mark Smith, the District IX vice president, provided the inspiration for the Vegas Aces." Now then, Vegas is in District X unless the San Andreas Fault has been acting up again. Think about that; the old switcheroo of AMA operatives..........how deep do you want to dig under the cover and unearth details of this arcane operation?

Abel

KidEpoxy

Crash,
Would you say the same if the PP Club had their foamies firing rocket arieal projectiles from their planes?
They are just having fun, why should we care about them breaking the rules
... in front of AMA/MA folks
... that got published without thought to said rules?


Or is the Stryker not breaking the rule?
Well, we are asking what the rules governing if a club can call itself PPP are.

Why is it so hard to find out whet the rules are, that we are suposed to all be obeying this whole time?

Dont forget Crash,
this is not a matter of some Open guys harshing the PPPs,
I am PPP and I want to know what the requirements are, and standards held to, to be called PPP Chartered.

Maybe if we had better understandings ofthe rules,
we wouldnt see PPP Club folks with planes capable of speeds greater than 60mph.
Heck, do they fly drunk too? I dont know what rules they are obeying and which they are breaking... cause we cant even get a straight answer what the rule is.

- -

Guess we will continue to wait on SLT letting us know checking the PPP Charter box requires/demands.
- -

RED, I think your labeling STL's belief of AMA lies as Quixote-esque was uncalled for. You should appologize to STL

busted2props

My Feedback: (9)

Mean Man-

As you say there is the need to know qualification, and nobody has it. If I answer your question (if I have the answer but I don't) I'll have to kill you.
I'll of course deny telling you this if asked, but here's a clue: According to the article in MA, "Mark Smith, the District IX vice president, provided the inspiration for the Vegas Aces." Now then, Vegas is in District X unless the San Andreas Fault has been acting up again. Think about that; the old switcheroo of AMA operatives..........how deep do you want to dig under the cover and unearth details of this arcane operation?

Abel
[/quote]
Abel,
I can't go far enough underground to pursue this. There are too many AMA operatives and I may blow my cover; being TUFF and all. Ya know? I called Maxwell Smart. He had no answers.[&:]

Mean Monte