Bob
The $150k Loss is just the magazine,
which Muncie has made clear is one of $10/$36 options of PPP member literature.
So we put the $10 magazine 'subscription' into that for 1000 members and the AMA loss is $140k for the Parkie mag.

You say we know where it was spent:,
Bob, where is the other $20 of the PPP dues spent?
We could ask MarkS, but we already did... repeatedly.

Paying for the labor implementing the PPP?
Apparently not, the Free Labor Elves do the work.

Bob,
it appears you are upset that Hoss isnt telling you where $10k was spent.
Why not ask MarkS where the other $20k of PPP (non-magazine) was spent,
and compare the detail levels of the two guys accounting of expendatures.
if accounting of expenses is soooo important to you.

Mark says it was spent on mostly marketing & publication (labor?),
while Hoss says it was spent on turning 7 channels into 50.


Oh, and lets not just ignore the recurring theme in the Candidate forums (that is the topic)
that Hoss, the one labeled as ineefective leader, claims Unanimous EC support for his deal,
while Mark also got unanimous EC support, except for the EC guys that voted against his baby.
So just who is the one that will have a hard time working with others?

Bob, $10,000 in 1981 was enough money to buy a Camaro or Mustang with a big block, that's all, definitely not a house. $125,000 today will still buy you a nice house in some parts of this country. $200,000 will buy a decent house in some nice areas. Your relative values comparison is not a good comparison.
The market to make the PPP anything more than just a pipe dream just isn't there.
Bob, in your daily travels do you see dozens of potential PPPers flying their planes?
I don't see any.....ever.

I believe there is prerequisite for the EVP to be able to work well with others. I sincerely believe that Mr. Cain is incapable of doing so mainly because if it ain't his way it is the highway. I could be wrong but I do not believe so in this case. I have gotten my ballot and already mailed it back. I had made my decision two weeks ago.

There is only one person posting on this board that was involved in what happened. HE volunteered the information about the money. HE indicated that he did something that might be illegal. HE indicated that he resigned as DVP as a result. HE inddicated that he had no regrets. I can't ask anyone else here, and after breaking the ice, he's not talking. If I didn't care what happened I wouldn't have asked. And AGAIN, he is the one running for election as EVP. And he lists this incident as one of his key accomplishments.

Horrace rants about the EC doing things in secret and not keeping the membership informed. Yet this key accomplishment was done in secret, might have been illegal, and led him to resign. And now he wants the membership to put him back on the EC.

Why you and some of the others don't see this as an issue is interesting. It seems to me to be a case of defend Horrace at all costs. Do you not see that the EC doing something and keeping it secret and and doing something that has to be kept secret are of the same cloth?

Bob, did you read mongo's last comment?
What DO you know about this pivotal time in AMA history?
What do you know about all the players involved?
How did we go from Hoss having absolutely nothing to do with frequency procurement to this?
You must know a heck of a lot more about it than I do?

< $10k 81 Freq discussion [link=http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/m_7997209/tm.htm]moved here[/link] >

These:
"now, do yall really want him to just come out and say that the money was used to bribe FCC officials to get the Freq use plan moved from the bottom of some unending stack of soon to be done stuff and into the publish now pile?

do ya really think that is necessary for him to state? "

If so, then I couldn't respond in that forum. Ken has made that clear repeatedly. Follow up questions to Horrace, yes, but not cross talk between others.

CP, Horrace opened this door with his comments. I was truely shocked that he would post what he did; I'm talking about the posting itself, not the actions of the EC. Given his comments...the "no regrets", the statute of limitations, etc. I really had no idea of what he would reply, and at that point nothing would have surprised me.

What I know is what Horrace posted. Nothing more.

You'll have to ask Red about the "nothing to do......" comment. I wasn't part of that, and didn't ask any questions about it. As far as I'm concerned the letter he posted is hearsay. I got to where I am based on Horrace's comments and nothing else. They were provocative and deserving of pointed follow up.

Once you guys get to the bottom of this one and get our $10,000 returned in exchange for the 50 channels back to Uncle Sam, what's next? Our soldiers who looted Hitler's compound in Burchesgarten would be a good one to look into, shame on those guys . Plus the purchase of Manhattan for a sack full of costume jewelry has been a huge skeleton in our closet, someone here needs to look into that one too.

But really, the crusaders for justice need to be concentrating on what we do have some control over and that would be the giant, sucking chest wound known as the PPP.
The money that has been tossed into it is an outrage, much more so than the per diem money that was doled out by the EC in 1981.
We've got a flat tire right here, right now, in 2008 with the PPP and you guys are worried about some old tail light.

Well I say one thing for sure, there never is a lack of drama here on RCU's AMA forum.

If this was a soap opera, we could all get rich.

Frank

It's like Bill Gate's going 10K in the hole to buy the first version of D.O.S. from the original author. We know how that turned out. He even collaborated with an industry giant (IBM) to their mutual gain. Attempting to use first year expenses against first year returns is one of two things. A total lack of knowledge or a deliberate diversion from the topic at hand.

You tell us which.

Bill Gates never went $10,000 in the hole for anything. His crib cost $10,000. He was a millionaire before he could say, "Ma-Ma".

PPP could have been adequately promoted for just the cost of the extra ink to have that option included in the AMA sign up form, with a couple of paragraphs to explain how it works. It didn't have to become the parasitic load that it is now.

Tell me something Robo, how many dozens of potential PPPers do you pass by on a daily basis in your travels? Let's pretend that you would answer that question truthfully and report back that you occasionally see 1 or 2, what makes you think that anything less than a bribe would get any of those guys to sign up just once?

I'm just trying to be realistic about this. If it was your $200,000 would you be singing the same tune?

In the meantime how is this ludicrous forensic investigation about Hoss coming along? You might get in touch with Chester Gould for some good tips about how to "collar" your man.

You're smarter than than, CP.

THIS thread is about the candidates and their fitness for office. Posting about the candidates takes nothing away from any PPP discussions that have or are going on. If you want to complain about PPP then do so in a thread that is about that, rather than try to hijack this one.

Using your logic, there should be nothing discussed in the AMA forum except for PPP, and any attemtp to discuss other issues is a diversion from PPP. THat dog don't hunt.

Oh, My bad, then you're saying the AMA has not gone in the hole for the PPP program. They have millions in assets. Oh, OK.

As I have said in the past, I rarely if ever see potential PPPers. I do, however, see potential hobbiests. They eventually end up at our field and we welcome them and take them under our wings. They become fellow clubmates and friends. The sun comes out and lights up the blue skies and we all sing songs together as we fly our planes. Yeesh. [/quote]

Well, $58 of it was mine before I gave it to the AMA to insure me, promote the hobby in general, and try to get more members.

This one only deserves an answer so that others may not take your words as anything other than BS. I have responded to your silly statement over in the proper thread.

Speaking of silly,
now that the weekend is over,
we might see some action on the silly Red Zero threads in Mark's candidate forum.
If folks are concerned about the number of silly red zero questions, this might interest them.... or it might just be a huger waste of bandwith than when those questions were wasting just 1 candidates time. Lets watch & find out [8D]

Agreed.

A few have a problem with Hoss wanting name and serial number. He said he won't respond and they keep trying. He made his point, they made theirs with the first unanswered thread.

Kicking the old dead horse from there on.

Y'all tell me one thing.....If you were seriously considering a run for office within the AMA, would you be crazy enough to post in this forum? Any potential candidate stands the same chance of surviving this forum as a hamburger stands of lasting in a dog pen. I wouldn't do it on a bet.

Bill, AMA 4720

Stick
I'd like to seperate that into 2 aspects:
1) Abusive posters giving the candidate a hard time
2) Sensative issues that can paint a bad light when answered or dodged

I think we did a fair job of keeing the candidate forum posts civil to the candidates.
<Hoss was hounded a little, but he's got a tough hide & experience here>
But as for the landmine of hard topics that we want hard answers too,
oh heck yeah its dangerous to campaign here if the election is about feelings rather than issues. You better be ready to declare where you stand on things, and that had better be on one side or the other because neither side likes a waffle fence sitter.

It's not worth the hassle. For the 100 and some change AMA members that actually view this forum, it would be a waste of time.

Frank

Frank, just how many people look at this that you don't know about? I kept track of things on this forum an some others here for almost 2 years before I even registered here. I have a friend that has been ama for almost 30 years an he watches this forum but doesn't belong to either of the RC forums you an I frequent.

Me either. Other than maybe in a very limited and general way as one candidate has done. I would n-e-v-e-r come into the general forum though.

I do give HC props for entering the pit.

Hoss dug the pit.

No, No - the pit was already there. He just needed to push the dirt up around it so the stupid* AMA members would recognize it as a pit.

*those open and Leader members who voted to create the EVP position (sans financial responsibility now assigned to a CFO that is appointed by the EC) that he is now running for.

Received ballot today. My vote went to Mark Smith. Renewed for 2 years

You know what Red, as a mod you got every right to express your opinion. BUT, as a mod you really oughta stay the heck out of this, it just makes RCU look biased when you start rattling with your moderator status stuck right up there by your name. Besides, you will never know how many potential customers you might have teed off here also. If yer gonna get in this battle, at least get rid of the moderator part in yer heading.

You dang sure don't see RC Ken sticking his nose in this mess one way or another.

Ken posted the position of RCU on this site some time ago. Moderators are free to participate in forums within the RCU rules. We cannot remove the moderator tag from our posts, it is put there by RCU admins. I asked to have it only apply to the forums we moderate, but it the administrators didn't take it off or don't have a way to do it. Signing on as another account is also in violation of RCU rules so that wouldn't work. Maybe Ken needs to re-post the RCU position on this for the late arrivals.
Ken has the authorization to delete posts, ban members etc. The JUDGE so to speak, perhaps with that burden he feels it would be a conflict of interest were he to take sides.