Pete737

Just curious as to the concensus regarding this issue.

At my local field it is a club rule that aircraft must be carried out to the runway. Taxiing in the pitts is not allowed.

That seems viable with a 60 size plane.....but carriying a giant scaler under one arm with your tx in the other, With the motor running seems like asking for trouble. Just this past sunday an older gentleman triped and fell on his 40 size trainer while carriying his plane out. It simply put is not a safe practice IMHO. Especially since our field is not exactly a putting green.


Sincerely, Pete

Silent-AV8R

You do not pick up a giant scale plane. What we do is pick it up by the tail and roll it like a wheelbarrow out to the starting area or close to the flight line. Start it an go. Does your club's rule actually say that you have to pick it up and carry it?? Or does it simply say not to taxi in the pit area?

Bob Mitchell

You're story hit home. About a month after I solo'd this spring I had my first deadstick. I didn't bleed off quite enough altitude and the Alpha rolled gently off the far end of the runway. No damage at all. I picked it up and started back to the pits, stepped in a deprression and promply fell in a heap on top of the plane. Very embarrassing, especially when 2 or 3 other pilots quickly headed my way thinking that perhaps there was something more serious going on than just having tripped.

Our field is set up with short narrow taxi-ways from each of the starting tables to the runway.....no "common" taxi area. We can taxi toward the runway after starting and setting the plane down, but after landing do not taxi back toward the starting tables. Most pilots will taxi back to the taxi-way, and immediately cut their engines after turning off the runway, or clear the runway and then immediately turn into the grass and kill their engines. The large scale guys usually just push or pull their planes to the end of the taxi-way adjacent to the runway and start it there.

Pete737

Most of the guys start their engines on the stand, Which would pretty much be considered the starting area. It is a 30ft walk to the long runway (runway of choice for most pilots).

There is a very steep embankment to the runway since it is elevated roughly 3 ft above the pitt ground elevation, This makes pulling the plane out to the runway impossible, As you will have a prop strike every time. Aphoristically, You are forced to pick up the plane and place it on the runway at some point after engine start..... Naturally, one would not start the engine, Put the aircraft on the ground, Drag it to the runway embankment and then pick it up and place it on the runway.

This is where the problem lies....

Peter

littlecrankshaf

My Feedback: (58)

Carrying a model airplane while the engine is running should be strongly discoureged. A very unsafe practice to say the least. Many accidents at the flying field are not model related at all but are "trip and fall" in nature. Couple that fact with carrying a running model is just asking for it.

Mr67Stang

Don't run with scissors... or model planes

Pete737, I'm not sure what solution you are looking for. In essence you have now stated that you can not taxi to the runnway due to inevitable prop strikes and the local club rule and you, I'm guessing, do not want to or are unable to carry your plane to the runway. So, how does anyone fly there?

Hossfly

If carry you must, then have a helper carry your TX or whatever for you.

This statement is unclear to me. 30 ft. in which direction from the "stand"? Straight out, sideways, or what?

Have you considered devising a plan for a taxiway/s from the "stand" or "stands" and going over with your officers the safety aspect of not carrying a ready-to-fly model for 30 ft. ?

Sounds to me like a holdover rule from years ago when a .60 engine was a big one.

Pete737

Club members walk their aircraft to the runway as previously stated, If the crowd is small, Sometimes we taxi. My point was however, The more "walkouts" their are, The greater potential for an accident. Especially while negotiating the embankment, Ruts and other field obstacles.

From the start stand it is approximately 30ft to the intersection of the long and short runways. Most of us, If not all start out takoff rolls here. The short runway is rarely used, Only during excessive crosswinds, Which are rare.

If the plane is carried out, This is this distance which must be traversed. Why would the direction be of any importance if I might ask?

Peter

Hossfly

Just to find out if there was a lot of ground between the stand/s and the runway. I was thinking maybe you could persuade your club powers that be that they should move the stands closer to the runway and then allow taxing out.
If the 30 feet is a parallel to the runway, then perhaps that portion adjacent to the runway could be designated a taxiway.

Just trying to get the picture in my mind. Now have you tried negotiating a better solution with the club officers?

Pete737

Understood,

We had a hard enough time convincing them to turn the stands around so spectators won't get hit in the face when a prop is thrown. I know several of my clubs senior members have brought up the point, with no success. Unfortunately I don't think moving the stands closer would solve the problem, Some people are set in their ways, regardless of whether or not they are plausible. I just figured I would post this concern here to determine if the AMA holds any protocol consistent with this inquiry.

I have only been flying since May and a member since July, I feel a bit out of place challenging club policies.

DadsToysBG

My Feedback: (35)

It's hard to understand your situation with out pictures of the layout. At our field we have a 4' fence between the pit area and the flight stations. Plane are started at the flight stations only. No plane is allowed to be started on the other side of the fence. As a CD I wouldn't allow planes to be started in the pit area only at the flight stations. No one would be allowed to carry a plane that is running at all period. The pit area to for set up and parking the planes. Start the planes at the flight stations and taxi on to the runway. Dennis

804

My Feedback: (1)

Our club has the same rule, no taxiing from the pits. We start smaller planes on stands, then carry to the runway, but there are no obstacles to trip over.

For large planes, we have 3 sets of two pipes, set about a foot apart, driven into the ground, adjacent to the flight stations. Smaller diameter pipes, wrapped with foam insulation are inserted and act as hold-backs to start and run-up the planes.

DadsToysBG

My Feedback: (35)

Again I have to say, Don't carry planes that are running it just isn't safe. bump the throttle, trip over your own feet drop something. Carry the plane to the flight station but it on the ground and start the plane. If you need help holding it ask for some one to hold for you. Get on your knees. What you are describing would not be allowed at my field. Dennis

Matt Kirsch

My Feedback: (21)

I don't know about your field, but at our fields the pits are directly behind the flight stations. That's how pit areas are laid out at every flying field I've ever been to.

That is why we do not allow taxiing in the pits: You make one mistake, and your plane is doing the Cuisinart Shuffle on the backs of someone's legs at the flight line!!! Yikes. At least if you fall on your own plane, you only hurt yourself. Can you imagine how you would feel if your plane sliced up someone else?

If the terrain between the pits and flight line is so treacherous that you can't walk across it without tripping and falling, how can you taxi the plane? Won't the plane fall in the same holes, ruts, ditches, as you?

It's not perfectly safe to carry a plane, but it's a lot safer than turning it loose in an area where people have their backs turned to it.

DadsToysBG

My Feedback: (35)

I'm saying you start the plane at the flight station and taxi onto the runway. See our set up at skymacrc.com Dennis

Pete737

The runways are in a direction away from the pitts and stands. If you had a contingency of some type, such as a runaway, The aircraft would only be heading toward the runway and ultimately into the embankment where it would be stopped.

I would not go as far as to say the terrain is treacherous but it is not ideal. Yes the planes can hit a rut or hole but restarting the motor would be preferable to loosing your footing and falling out of control. It's much easier to establish a taxi route/ walking route without a plane in your hands.

Peter

Jim Messer

My Feedback: (2)

We have dual runways, NS and EW, with five flight stations on each. Only one runway is used at any one time. All of our flight stations are rectangular in shape, so that the pilot is protected from all four sides. No chance of an airplane hitting him while being taxied from any direction, while he is flying.

There is a 20 ft. taxi area in front of the flight stations to the edge of the runway. Any model can be started on the stand, or on the ground as is the case with large models, and then can be taxied out to the taxi area described above - parallel to the runway, to the flight station the pilot chooses to use. Once at his station, he taxis onto the runway, and takes-off.

When a plane lands, the rule is to taxi to the edge of the runway, into the 20 ft. taxi area, and shut the engine off. If one must taxi for a longer distance, that is done on the runway.

We have a big club, with lots of flying, and this system works.

ira d

Our club has the same rule also while it is incovenient I understand why most clubs
have the rule as I have seen a few runaways in the pit area. With larger models
we are asked to push them to the runway with the engine at idle we are supposed
to have a hand on the model at all times untill we are out of the pit area.

RCHubbub

When I was checking out this video, in the beginning of it, I was kind of astonished of the club's setup as it looks like the expectation is that all planes would be started on a table and carried out as there is not much room to taxi anyway nor to even taxi the plane through the opening in the barrier and there isn't much room between the starting tables to start the plane on the ground if you wanted to. I don't know what someone flying a 35% plane would do. I know this setup would annoy me greatly.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RIQbFvXYY4g

The Toolman

Rent a Bobcat an fix it....

KW_Counter

Pete,
Airplanes should NOT be started in the pitts.
We have an area on each side of the pitts where planes are started.
They are then taxied to the runway for takeoff.

One of the questions I always have when going to a new field, "What area is considered the pitts?"
That may be part of your problem.
It is my experience the pitts is the area where the planes are stored between flights.
They are then taken to the startup area when it is time to fly.

Carrying a plane with a running engine is very dangerous and should be kept to a minimum.
We have people in our club who prefer to start on the ground rather than a bench for this reason.

I'm not trying to solve your problem, just give some food for thought.

Good Luck,
KW_Counter

KW_Counter

Pete,
It sounds like it is time for a work party.
I think a solution is to make a taxiing route from the starting area
to the runway with no obstacles and a ramp up to the runway.
This would allow taxiing without carrying running planes.
Good Luck,
KW_Counter

DadsToysBG

My Feedback: (35)

That video is a perfect example of what I am talking about. Did you notice the strain the handler was under carrying the plane. Just carry the plane past the fence, start it and step back behind the fence to fly. Each club has the right to set rules they think work, but this video shows me the wrong way.
At one of the event for GS I went to this year the club had a similar set up. The opening in the fences were not big enough for GS. We all started our planes at the end of the fence at step back behind it and taxed the plane over the grass to the runway. There is no way to carry a 40lb. plane that is running with a 150cc engine. On landing we killed the engine and let it roll onto the grass at the end of the fence.
I know "we have never had any trouble" is what they will say, but to me it is a accident wanting to happen. Dennis

HH

At our club field we Have a starting table placed about 10 feet to the side and 5 feet behind each pilot station. This allows the pilot to start his aircraft, set it down and taxi it a short distance to the runway while remaining very close (approx 3 strides) to his pilot station. That way no aircraft is taxied behind anyone on the flight line.

Our pit area is about 40-50 feet back from the starting tables. This is where planes are assembled and fueled but never started.
They are then Brought to the starting tables (or next to the starting tables if the pilot chooses to start his ship on the ground) to be fired up.

Still further back, behind the assembly pit area, is the spectator fence.

mdscientist61

You say your flying field has one long runway and one short runway, and that your short runway is rarely used.

I assume these two runways intersect at some point.
If some section of the short runway is on the "safe side" of the flight line, then perhaps it would be possible for your club to designate part of the short runway to be your start-up area.
Then, at a safe distance from the long runway and a safe distance from the pilot stations, the pilot can start the motor on the short runway then walk to the pilot station then taxi onto the long runway and take off.

Of course, all this is moot if the entire short runway exists only on the far side of the long runway. It would not be feasible to walk across the long runway to start the engine on the short runway if that is how your field is laid out.