Where's Bozo?
03-01-2009, 12:24 AM
#76
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RE: Where's Bozo?
ORIGINAL: Kemosobie
The actions of one always reflect on the many.
The actions of one always reflect on the many.
How far do you want to take this? There is plenty of unsafe flying at clubs, and even big events that could reflect poorly on all of us.
I'll say it again. Show me a trend that backs up JC's statement, and I'll listen.
03-01-2009, 12:53 AM
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RE: Where's Bozo?
Kemo
Wow, thats a hard standard to live by,
or is it a double standard.... lets check if it is:
WHo remebers the guy that posted this one-
I recently was working in the basement of my apartment on several planes. A retired friend came in and expressed a real sincere interest in the hobby. He then went on to relate a bad expereince that he had which over a year ago turned him away from the hobby. He went to a "SANCTIONED" CLUB field near where I live in Delaware (I'll leave the club name out). He stated that the men who were present were hesitant to talk to him, short and acted "aloof" and were consuming alcohol. This is not the first time I have heard this about this particular "CLUB." He just decided that he would choose another hobby for himself and his wife and he did not know where else to fly. Oh, I'll add that the membership meeting was only once a year so unless one of these "aloof" guys is willing to take you under his wing you won't be flying. Needless to say I'm going to teach him how to fly.
SO,
if we hear about some non-ama guys being bad aeromodel flyers,
we can just slap the sterotype down and say non-ama guys are often and likely to be bad.
just like we here can see some AMA club guys being jerks,
which means, according to the standards set by Kemo,
AMA club guys are often and likely to be jerks
Sorry Kemo,
I dont think your Bad Apple Ruins Bushell metric holds true
in regard to casing sterotypes just on membership in AMA (for good or bad)
We could just crunch the Death Toll numbers for AMA vs Non-AMA,
I recall the 2 in Hungary and the Thigh-Prop Bleedout a not too long ago.
WHo's got at least 3 non-ama Death By Model Plane Strikes
to make it at least be a tie with the killerklubs that do it right.
Who is killing more folks, AMA or nonAMA?
I really doubt Kemo wants his standard applied to
If the actions of one AMAer kills someone it reflects on the many.
<Should we count the BikeRacer vs Chain, AMA"Club" liable death too? Was the club found liable, I havent heard final outcome of that one
ok, the Hungary might have been just a professional flying at a suitable and endorsed place, not actually in AMA>
The actions of one always reflect on the many.
or is it a double standard.... lets check if it is:
WHo remebers the guy that posted this one-
I recently was working in the basement of my apartment on several planes. A retired friend came in and expressed a real sincere interest in the hobby. He then went on to relate a bad expereince that he had which over a year ago turned him away from the hobby. He went to a "SANCTIONED" CLUB field near where I live in Delaware (I'll leave the club name out). He stated that the men who were present were hesitant to talk to him, short and acted "aloof" and were consuming alcohol. This is not the first time I have heard this about this particular "CLUB." He just decided that he would choose another hobby for himself and his wife and he did not know where else to fly. Oh, I'll add that the membership meeting was only once a year so unless one of these "aloof" guys is willing to take you under his wing you won't be flying. Needless to say I'm going to teach him how to fly.
SO,
if we hear about some non-ama guys being bad aeromodel flyers,
we can just slap the sterotype down and say non-ama guys are often and likely to be bad.
just like we here can see some AMA club guys being jerks,
which means, according to the standards set by Kemo,
AMA club guys are often and likely to be jerks
Sorry Kemo,
I dont think your Bad Apple Ruins Bushell metric holds true
in regard to casing sterotypes just on membership in AMA (for good or bad)
We could just crunch the Death Toll numbers for AMA vs Non-AMA,
I recall the 2 in Hungary and the Thigh-Prop Bleedout a not too long ago.
WHo's got at least 3 non-ama Death By Model Plane Strikes
to make it at least be a tie with the killerklubs that do it right.
Who is killing more folks, AMA or nonAMA?
I really doubt Kemo wants his standard applied to
If the actions of one AMAer kills someone it reflects on the many.
<Should we count the BikeRacer vs Chain, AMA"Club" liable death too? Was the club found liable, I havent heard final outcome of that one
ok, the Hungary might have been just a professional flying at a suitable and endorsed place, not actually in AMA>
03-01-2009, 08:12 AM
#78
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RE: Where's Bozo?
A tad bit dated, but the risk is still the same.
[link]http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=10694&highlight=irresponsible[/link]
Frank
[link]http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=10694&highlight=irresponsible[/link]
Frank
03-01-2009, 11:22 AM
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RE: Where's Bozo?
ORIGINAL: KidEpoxy
Kemo
Wow, thats a hard standard to live by,
or is it a double standard.... lets check if it is:
WHo remebers the guy that posted this one-
I recently was working in the basement of my apartment on several planes. A retired friend came in and expressed a real sincere interest in the hobby. He then went on to relate a bad expereince that he had which over a year ago turned him away from the hobby. He went to a "SANCTIONED" CLUB field near where I live in Delaware (I'll leave the club name out). He stated that the men who were present were hesitant to talk to him, short and acted "aloof" and were consuming alcohol. This is not the first time I have heard this about this particular "CLUB." He just decided that he would choose another hobby for himself and his wife and he did not know where else to fly. Oh, I'll add that the membership meeting was only once a year so unless one of these "aloof" guys is willing to take you under his wing you won't be flying. Needless to say I'm going to teach him how to fly.
SO,
if we hear about some non-ama guys being bad aeromodel flyers,
we can just slap the sterotype down and say non-ama guys are often and likely to be bad.
just like we here can see some AMA club guys being jerks,
which means, according to the standards set by Kemo,
AMA club guys are often and likely to be jerks
Sorry Kemo,
I dont think your Bad Apple Ruins Bushell metric holds true
in regard to casing sterotypes just on membership in AMA (for good or bad)
We could just crunch the Death Toll numbers for AMA vs Non-AMA,
I recall the 2 in Hungary and the Thigh-Prop Bleedout a not too long ago.
WHo's got at least 3 non-ama Death By Model Plane Strikes
to make it at least be a tie with the killerklubs that do it right.
Who is killing more folks, AMA or nonAMA?
I really doubt Kemo wants his standard applied to
If the actions of one AMAer kills someone it reflects on the many.
<Should we count the BikeRacer vs Chain, AMA"Club" liable death too? Was the club found liable, I havent heard final outcome of that one
ok, the Hungary might have been just a professional flying at a suitable and endorsed place, not actually in AMA>
Kemo
The actions of one always reflect on the many.
or is it a double standard.... lets check if it is:
WHo remebers the guy that posted this one-
I recently was working in the basement of my apartment on several planes. A retired friend came in and expressed a real sincere interest in the hobby. He then went on to relate a bad expereince that he had which over a year ago turned him away from the hobby. He went to a "SANCTIONED" CLUB field near where I live in Delaware (I'll leave the club name out). He stated that the men who were present were hesitant to talk to him, short and acted "aloof" and were consuming alcohol. This is not the first time I have heard this about this particular "CLUB." He just decided that he would choose another hobby for himself and his wife and he did not know where else to fly. Oh, I'll add that the membership meeting was only once a year so unless one of these "aloof" guys is willing to take you under his wing you won't be flying. Needless to say I'm going to teach him how to fly.
SO,
if we hear about some non-ama guys being bad aeromodel flyers,
we can just slap the sterotype down and say non-ama guys are often and likely to be bad.
just like we here can see some AMA club guys being jerks,
which means, according to the standards set by Kemo,
AMA club guys are often and likely to be jerks
Sorry Kemo,
I dont think your Bad Apple Ruins Bushell metric holds true
in regard to casing sterotypes just on membership in AMA (for good or bad)
We could just crunch the Death Toll numbers for AMA vs Non-AMA,
I recall the 2 in Hungary and the Thigh-Prop Bleedout a not too long ago.
WHo's got at least 3 non-ama Death By Model Plane Strikes
to make it at least be a tie with the killerklubs that do it right.
Who is killing more folks, AMA or nonAMA?
I really doubt Kemo wants his standard applied to
If the actions of one AMAer kills someone it reflects on the many.
<Should we count the BikeRacer vs Chain, AMA"Club" liable death too? Was the club found liable, I havent heard final outcome of that one
ok, the Hungary might have been just a professional flying at a suitable and endorsed place, not actually in AMA>
03-01-2009, 11:24 AM
#80
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RE: Where's Bozo?
ORIGINAL: 804
Then none of us should ever be allowed to fly toy airplanes. Ever. It is simply too dangerous, we can't be trusted.
How far do you want to take this? There is plenty of unsafe flying at clubs, and even big events that could reflect poorly on all of us.
I'll say it again. Show me a trend that backs up JC's statement, and I'll listen.
ORIGINAL: Kemosobie
The actions of one always reflect on the many.
The actions of one always reflect on the many.
How far do you want to take this? There is plenty of unsafe flying at clubs, and even big events that could reflect poorly on all of us.
I'll say it again. Show me a trend that backs up JC's statement, and I'll listen.
03-01-2009, 02:11 PM
#81
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RE: Where's Bozo?
Kemo-
so the people killed by Right Propper Fliers reflects on the rest of the guys flying the right way,
....so, where are the tales of guys getting killed by folks flying their toy airplanes the wrong way JC claims?
<unsuitable loction, no AMA-safety code, etc>
We know the guys doing it the JC proper way do kill folks in Hungary and in the states (Thigh Bleedout),
so that reflects as the rest of the proper folks (AMA membership) is a bunch of killers
by your sterotype 'reflect on' standard,
but where have we seen any dead bodies to attribute to the guys slurred by JC's paragraph of doom?
Kemo,
come up with some corpses to have reflect on the public flyers
just as we have a trail of bodies to reflect on the rest of guys doing it the so called right way.
Maybe if we get all the public flyers to become AMA members
we can start reflecting deaths on them as part of the lethal right way to fly.
Let the body count reflect whom is safe, if we want sterotyping to be considered a swell way to do things.
Cause under Muncie statistical analysis, if there is just1 club or corpse, they are considered Popping up all over and a Likely thing.
so the people killed by Right Propper Fliers reflects on the rest of the guys flying the right way,
....so, where are the tales of guys getting killed by folks flying their toy airplanes the wrong way JC claims?
<unsuitable loction, no AMA-safety code, etc>
We know the guys doing it the JC proper way do kill folks in Hungary and in the states (Thigh Bleedout),
so that reflects as the rest of the proper folks (AMA membership) is a bunch of killers
by your sterotype 'reflect on' standard,
but where have we seen any dead bodies to attribute to the guys slurred by JC's paragraph of doom?
Kemo,
come up with some corpses to have reflect on the public flyers
just as we have a trail of bodies to reflect on the rest of guys doing it the so called right way.
Maybe if we get all the public flyers to become AMA members
we can start reflecting deaths on them as part of the lethal right way to fly.
Let the body count reflect whom is safe, if we want sterotyping to be considered a swell way to do things.
Cause under Muncie statistical analysis, if there is just1 club or corpse, they are considered Popping up all over and a Likely thing.
03-01-2009, 02:26 PM
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RE: Where's Bozo?
ORIGINAL: P-51B
It's certainly good that nothing unfortunate like that ever happens to "traditional" rcpilots, particularly AMA members, or at an AMA events.
Oh wait, maybe it does:
It's certainly good that nothing unfortunate like that ever happens to "traditional" rcpilots, particularly AMA members, or at an AMA events.
Oh wait, maybe it does:
However, I stand by my comment that the schoolyard incident is a textbook example of what Cherry was talking about. The other is also a example of how an accident/incident can happen despite proper event layout and precautions such as a roped off spectator area. I suspect that the wisdom or lack of such in having such a young pilot flying at such an event has been the source of much discussion.
That said, I see a world of difference between that, and the school incident where the pilot was flying a craft that far exceeds reasonable recommendations for speed of "park" aircraft, in a schoolyard DURING school hours, and putting his aircraft into the window of an occupied classroom. It's my impression that the individual actually seemed to revel in the attention the incident afforded him and even tried to peddle the aircraft on ebay as some sort of souvenir. As I said, it's a textbook example of what Cherry was talking about.
03-02-2009, 05:06 AM
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RE: Where's Bozo?
ORIGINAL: Bob Mitchell
That said, I see a world of difference between that, and the school incident where the pilot was flying a craft that far exceeds reasonable recommendations for speed of "park" aircraft, in a schoolyard DURING school hours, and putting his aircraft into the window of an occupied classroom. It's my impression that the individual actually seemed to revel in the attention the incident afforded him and even tried to peddle the aircraft on ebay as some sort of souvenir. As I said, it's a textbook example of what Cherry was talking about.
That said, I see a world of difference between that, and the school incident where the pilot was flying a craft that far exceeds reasonable recommendations for speed of "park" aircraft, in a schoolyard DURING school hours, and putting his aircraft into the window of an occupied classroom. It's my impression that the individual actually seemed to revel in the attention the incident afforded him and even tried to peddle the aircraft on ebay as some sort of souvenir. As I said, it's a textbook example of what Cherry was talking about.
In that light the parkflyer guy is much more responsible.
JC was trying to make a derogative contrast between AMAers and non-AMAers that are associated with the new parkflier models...It was wrong for him to do so...no way around it. It is wrong to stereotype those enthusiasts...just plane wrong.
The incident regarding the school was just that...an incident unique to itself....nothing more nothing less...the perpetrator even admitted it was wrong and accepted full blame.
Like I said, for every incident offered up like that one at the school another can be given about "real modelers" (AMA) on the other side of the equation.
A big fat zero is the net.
He gets no point!
Neither do you!
03-02-2009, 01:27 PM
#85
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RE: Where's Bozo?
Is JC trying to be the Hatfield, or a McCoy?
Cause he is just pouring gasoline on the Unfair Stereotype feud between AMA vs Non-AMA.
AMA'er are always ready to dispute any time a guy has a problem with a club,
saying it is just a few bad apples that folks shouldnt judge the entire org by.
Yet we see folks standing up to endorse stereotyping non-member flyers.
As LCS just said
Stereotyping folks is a wrong thing to do.
Either we should stop stereotyping others, or stop disputing the stereotype reflected in our members being bad.
Fostering this feud is not the way to promote aeromodeling in America,
it is the way to promote fear of aeromodeling and will lead to yet more public flying bans,
which some guys here can attest, turns out WE ARE public flyers when clubs get kicked off land.
Cause he is just pouring gasoline on the Unfair Stereotype feud between AMA vs Non-AMA.
AMA'er are always ready to dispute any time a guy has a problem with a club,
saying it is just a few bad apples that folks shouldnt judge the entire org by.
Yet we see folks standing up to endorse stereotyping non-member flyers.
As LCS just said
Stereotyping folks is a wrong thing to do.
Either we should stop stereotyping others, or stop disputing the stereotype reflected in our members being bad.
Fostering this feud is not the way to promote aeromodeling in America,
it is the way to promote fear of aeromodeling and will lead to yet more public flying bans,
which some guys here can attest, turns out WE ARE public flyers when clubs get kicked off land.
03-02-2009, 01:42 PM
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RE: Where's Bozo?
ORIGINAL: littlecrankshaf
JC was trying to make a derogative contrast between AMAers and non-AMAers that are associated with the new parkflier models...It was wrong for him to do so...no way around it. It is wrong to stereotype those enthusiasts...just plane wrong.
JC was trying to make a derogative contrast between AMAers and non-AMAers that are associated with the new parkflier models...It was wrong for him to do so...no way around it. It is wrong to stereotype those enthusiasts...just plane wrong.
The derogation went further than that; the contrast as I read it was between AMA clubbers and everybody else. There a lot of lone wolves that belong to AMA and don't belong to clubs, about half the total AMA membership.
AMA has the actuarial data to belie JC's allegation. Half of AMA's insurance payout is for liability incurred by clubs. Obviously that leaves the other half payed out to cover personal liability incurred by all members, clubbers and non-club members. AMA has provided no breakdown of the personal liability payout by club membership or not, but clearly the possible range for the non-club members must be limited to the range of 0 - 50% of the total. I think it is most probably closer to to the lower than the upper bound of that range, on the presumption that clubs are rarely named as solely responsible for injuries by a claimant - more likely these instances also involve claims against individuals.
Abel
