At the local field the other day I overheard a club officer (the president of the club) tell an interested spectator about the rules to become a pilot. The officer told the guy that he was alowed one flight on the club trainer with one of the clubs instructors. After that one flight he would have to join the AMA and the club before any more instruction was given.

Is this an AMA rule or just a club rule? IT was told to the guy as it was an AMA rule and the club had to follow it.

The reason I bring this up is that it is a chartered AMA club and I beleive that if the instructor is using a buddy box to train with then the student is covered as far as property damage or bodily injury is concerned. After all the instructor should take control before any distruction or injury shas occured.

Nope, The President was talking about the Intro Pilot program where a club instructor who's signed up as an Intro Pilot can give non-AMA members 1 flight on a budy box. After that the student has to be an AMA member. No one is covered by the instructors AMA except the instructor.

The details of the AMA intro program can be found here:

AMA Introductory Pilot Program PDF

The specific passage that covers this situaton are thus:

As long as the student flies with an AMA Introductory Pilot he may fly at an AMA field for up to 60 days under the Intro Pilot program. He will be covered by full AMA liability insurance as long as he is flying with the AMA Intro Pilot instructor.

However, individual clubs may enact other guidelines covering this issue. But this is what the AMA's plan is, and offers.

Ken

Both, probably. The one-time-only flight on the buddy box is an AMA rule. Any AMA member can be on the master Tx, so the part about being with a club instructor is either a club rule, or required by AMA per the added condition that model being flown must belong to the AMA member host (I presume a club trainer would be okay if master control is by a club instructor).

I agree with you on that for the reasons you stated........but. I proposed to AMA via my DVP that the number of buddy box flights should not be limited. He was prepared to take it to the EC, but per an 'unadvertised' protocol in the 'due process' he allowed then prexy Dave Brown to screen it first. Never got on the EC meeting agenda. We have a much more reasonable (i.e., less autocratic) prexy now, so maybe it's time for another shot at it. Ball's in your court though........I'm done with it.

Abel

Edit to add: Looks like a few of us replied in the same time frame, and may have created some confusion. To help clear it up, understand that replies are to two different AMA programs (Buddy Box and Intro Pilot), either of which the club president might have been citing.

Your club Presidentis correct. I asked this question to AMA when I was renewing my AMA card.

I asked if my wife would be covered under my card (policy) if she was on a buddy cord with me. The AMA policy for insurance is stated exactly as your club President stated, "One flight with an AMA member instructor with or without buddy cord. Any additional flights require signing up for the intro program or an AMA card.

Larry Diamond

To me this is a hiderance to promotion of the hooby. I learned to fly back in the mid eighties and did not have to do anything but show up. Now before I was allowed to solo, I had to provide proof of AMA membership and club membership but that was only if I wanted to fly without instruction.

I understand the whole liability issues but to me it is just more red tape. Give a new guy the buddy box and teach him to fly. If he likes it and progresses, he will join the club and the AMA. Sure I guess there are some people who would learn to fly then go fly by themselves but flying by yourself is not much fun.

We had a group of pilots that met every Sunday at a local field (not a club site). We were not even a club, but we all carried our AMA insurance and taught numerous people to fly without know about the intro pilot program. I guess we broke the rulles, but I know that we trained a dozen or so pilots every summer and the club I mentioned has probably trianed 5 in the last 3 years.

To me if AMA wants the hobby to grow they are going to have to make it easier for the beginers to get involed. It seems like some of the rules just make it harder for the new guy or girl to get flying.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not against the AMA in any way. I would not fly without it because it's coverage is a benifit to me. But it is hard to get some people involved in a great sport when they feel that they are dealing with more politics instead of a relaxing hobby.

Under the current tort system in these United states there is little room for what one thinks. AMA has to protect AMA. You want the coverage to protect yourself. AMA is trying to protect everyone. Big Job!

RCKen gave you the Intro. Pilot stuff. Here is some more that often keeps fliers somewhat confused. Easy to get confused if one doesn't review the written words every few months. Changes get made without knowing about them unless one reviews the material every so often.

AMA Document 911 Flying at a Chartered Club Site.

For non-AMA members wishing to experience a “hands-on” model flight, the Academy does allow this, on a onetime
basis per person ONLY, (with the use of a Buddy Box system for RC). During this one-time flight, the club is
protected through its liability coverage as long as the non-member’s supervised flying is in accordance with the AMA
National Model Aircraft Safety Code(s). Under NO situation should the non-member’s equipment or aircraft be used.


Introductory Pilot documents are 917 and 921. This is a different AMA program and subject to Club Control.

Under the Intro program, clubs can add their own limitations. That is a good reason for a Club Officer to be repeating information that may sound a bit different from AMA specifics.

As an Intro Pilot, I use my club's bylaws that require a person to join the club after 3 visits. That is MY personal rule to follow. WHY? Because early on I would get a guy to where he could take-off and make a fair landing every other approach. Then he would disappear, never to be seen again. (Lots of open country in this area on NE and East side of Houston.) Why should I waste my time and effort if the guy heads for some outlaw place to fly, rather than joining the Club, as soon as he can keep the wheels pointing towards the ground? [sm=devious.gif] I'm too old to waste time like that. I will not teach landings in that first 3 sessions unless the guy first joins the club.

The Club owns 50 flat acres with more all around it. The club has big expenses. If RC Wanna-Bee is going to use the facility, then like all others, he will - if I have a say - pay his way. I certainly have.
Edit: correct word, and try to get a smilie to work.

Hossfly,

I think I met you at a Livingston fly-in once. I understand and will follow the rules of a club that I'm a member of. I understand AMA`s role to protect everyone and I would like to thank all of them for what they have to do to regulate things.

I personaly will never say it is a waste of time to teach anyone to fly. I don't care if they join the club or not. If they want to fly I'll teach them to fly. Young kids (12 to 15) that have to mow yards all summer to finaly buy the trainer, there equipment and join the AMA should not be told they can't learn to fly untill they join the club for another $100 - $250. That is a lot of money for a 12 year old and could hamper them from learing to fly.

I just think that when I'm teaching if I let a student crash into a car then I did not do my job as the instructor. I just can't see if using the buddy box system that a crash could every be blamed on the student. It is the instructors job to keep the plane under control if the student makes a mistake. If a crash results because of equipment failure, then the instructor is still the one holding the transmitter. To me as an instructor whatever happens when I teachig is my fault. If it results in property damage or bodily injury then that is when my AMA coverage would take over.

We taught a young guy 12 years old how to fly using the plane that he paid for buy himself and build by himself himself. He actualy bought a kit not an ARF. He lived with just his mother (don't know where his dad was) and his mother worked as a waitress to to get the bills paid. He worked very hard for what he had. His mother brought him to the field every Sunday and we taught him to fly. Yes we made sure his plane was safe to fly. We also told him he would need to get AMA insurance (which he did). We taught him to fly nad he flew with us for about year. He inventionaly crashed his plane and stop showing up. Talk to him a few times after that but he just faded away. I did talk to his mother a few months ago and he is now in the Airforce and is doing well. Her thanking me for taking the time to teach him to fly RC was enough reward.

I want this hobby to grow. I would like the local club to grow also but that takes second place for me. Maybe am an "Outlaw" myself, I don't know. Just to clarify I am a member of a local club and I do follow the rules.

I do think that AMA should not limit the number of budy-box flights. This would be where the change would need to take place. Does anyone else other than abel agree to this?

Time to start a poll thread I guess.

Thank You, Stick for the nice reply. Your thoughts and works are most commendable. I certainly have every respect for how you operate and feel about instruction. There was a time that I felt fairly much the same, however in the last 13 years I have had a number of reasons to change my mind.

As far as the teen age crowd goes, I wish I had the answers. My own grandson that at 14 was becoming a hot RCer has gone in other directions. The school Marching Band takes allmost all his spare time. He has even given up fishing! SAD!

In addition he turned 16 last Jan. and was immediately infested with that dreadful "G & G" desease. At 6' 3" and muscled 180# he has no trouble getting the Girls (G) and he works for the second (G) Gas. I miss his company during the two times he use to come spend time with me.

Anyway, Stick thanks for the information. best of luck to you. Can't make the 10-17 Livingston Fish fry this year. Too many other family fish to fry. h