Flying Field Access
06-16-2010, 04:05 PM
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Flying Field Access
I would like to bring up a topic for discussion that I think really needs to be addressed by the AMA and that is FLYING FIELD ACCESS. Please correct me if I am wrong but it appears that most club fields are sanctioned by the AMA. These fields in many cases are in existence because of the AMA's organization, flying rules, and liability protection of its members. Many landowners and public Parks Departments probably would not allow a flying field without this minimal oversight and the liability protection. SOOOO without the AMA they would not exist!!!
With that said, let me address my "frustration" for lack of a better word over my topic.."Flying Field Access". I am an AMA member and a member of a great club in Maryland. However, my daughters live in another STATE and both of them live within fifteen minutes of (2) AMA sanctioned flying fields that are listed on the AMA web site.
I visited one of the clubs recently and talked to some of the members who seemed to be great guys. I asked about AMA guests flying at the field and was told that guests are allowed with a sponsor and according to their club rules can only fly (3) times a season without joining the club. I have run into the same restriction at several other clubs with some minor variations.
Here is my beef as a "DIEHARD" flyer........If I spend (5) days at my daughters house (which is only a couple of times a year)....(1) I WILL have planes in the car, (2) I will fly MORE than three times. The question is... do I get to fly at a sanctioned AMA flying field or do I have to fly at a "rogue" field or park where there is a greater chance of coming into contact with people, "KIDS", pets and.....??????...you get the picture.
First let me address the sponsor issue....I don't live there so how in the world can I get a "sponsor"?....and what is a sponsor?....(sounds like who do you know, not what do you know) and what if no one is at the field when I want to fly.
Second....(3) times in a year?.... give me a break! Most clubs that I have had experience with only have between 10% to 20%(rare), that are diehard flyers. So, one more guy for a few days would not get in the way.
Now....I don't want to join 3 or 4 clubs and SHOULDN'T have to just to fly at an AMA field as an AMA member. If money is the issue (and I think it is) with this whole have to join after 3 or 4 times I am willing to pay a landing fee to fly and submit to all of the local rules as a guest at an AMA field as an AMA member.
I think this should be a part of process for a field to be sanctioned by the AMA. Just a thought as it is tough to travel and fly at a safe place!
06-16-2010, 04:18 PM
#2
RE: Flying Field Access
At present each club is free to make its own rules and most have the fly three times as a guest
rule and a few will let you purchase a guest pass and some will have lower cost membership
if you only use the club only a few months of a year.
That being said I think the AMA sould work with clubs to try come up with a standard guest policy
and publish a list of the clubs that will conform to the policy.
rule and a few will let you purchase a guest pass and some will have lower cost membership
if you only use the club only a few months of a year.
That being said I think the AMA sould work with clubs to try come up with a standard guest policy
and publish a list of the clubs that will conform to the policy.
06-16-2010, 04:38 PM
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RE: Flying Field Access
ORIGINAL: arcticflyer
I would like to bring up a topic for discussion that I think really needs to be addressed by the AMA and that is FLYING FIELD ACCESS. Please correct me if I am wrong but it appears that most club fields are sanctioned by the AMA.
I would like to bring up a topic for discussion that I think really needs to be addressed by the AMA and that is FLYING FIELD ACCESS. Please correct me if I am wrong but it appears that most club fields are sanctioned by the AMA.
Clubs are privately run groups and as such are allowed to formulate their own guidelines for access. Some are forced to limit access, such as clubs on military bases. Other clubs are required by the controlling agency of their site to limit membership. But in no way does being an AMA member confer upon us open and unrestricted access to every AMA club flying site in the Nation.
So the bottom line is that it is the club which controls their site and not the AMA and as such the AMA does not and cannot tell a club what to do regarding access or membership limits.
In your specific situation I would approach the clubs and explain your situation and discuss with them the possibility of some limited membership type.
06-16-2010, 05:45 PM
#5
RE: Flying Field Access
There is a bottom line to this and that is they are "not AMA fields" and the AMA has no right or desire to mandate rules concerning their use by local chartered clubs beyond safety rules. Its not going to happen.
If you are unhappy with various local use mandates by the local club then join and contribute in some way to the hard work that those local clubs put in to build that site.
If you expect free and unrestricted use of every field accross the country used by an AMA chartered club then you are going to continue to be an unhappy camper. And the assertion that you even want to use them when no one is there then that hardly encompasses a guest, what do you expect? for all clubs to mail you a gate key or combo.
Thats utterly unrealistic. As an AMA member you don't have to "just fly at an AMA field", agine thats ridiculous you are free to fly anywhere you want or have permission.
Now just for the record Our local fields does have the three day limit on guests and we have a limited membership (no voting) at half price (twenty bucks) for a max of four months.
A guest is just that a guest and if one expects to fly alone then he is not a guest. Now we have Never collected daily fees on a guest, ever simply because we open our arms to anyone who is an AMA member almost anytime however if he just expects to fly by himself then that is not going to happen, that is not a guest.
I have at travelled extensively all over the southwest and flown at many fields and been welcomed as a guest just by presenting myself politely.
You want to come here by all means let me know and you will be treated like a friend and royalty for a reasonable period at no cost however if you expect unlimited full flying priviledges then that ain,t going to happen and unlikely at most clubs. If you expect full use without any contribution then that is simply freeloading.
John
If you are unhappy with various local use mandates by the local club then join and contribute in some way to the hard work that those local clubs put in to build that site.
If you expect free and unrestricted use of every field accross the country used by an AMA chartered club then you are going to continue to be an unhappy camper. And the assertion that you even want to use them when no one is there then that hardly encompasses a guest, what do you expect? for all clubs to mail you a gate key or combo.
Thats utterly unrealistic. As an AMA member you don't have to "just fly at an AMA field", agine thats ridiculous you are free to fly anywhere you want or have permission.
Now just for the record Our local fields does have the three day limit on guests and we have a limited membership (no voting) at half price (twenty bucks) for a max of four months.
A guest is just that a guest and if one expects to fly alone then he is not a guest. Now we have Never collected daily fees on a guest, ever simply because we open our arms to anyone who is an AMA member almost anytime however if he just expects to fly by himself then that is not going to happen, that is not a guest.
I have at travelled extensively all over the southwest and flown at many fields and been welcomed as a guest just by presenting myself politely.
You want to come here by all means let me know and you will be treated like a friend and royalty for a reasonable period at no cost however if you expect unlimited full flying priviledges then that ain,t going to happen and unlikely at most clubs. If you expect full use without any contribution then that is simply freeloading.
John
06-16-2010, 07:10 PM
#6
RE: Flying Field Access
I would not suggest that the AMA try to mandate that club policy, What I do think however that the AMA could work with clubs to have some standard rules in place
for AMA guest that are currently members of a club in good standing. this is just a suggestion but maybe the standard could be you could fly free for maybe ten
days as guest and after the first day of flying you could alone if you disire to, If you need to be the area longer than ten days there would be a standard fee for a
certain number of days.
What im thinking for one possiblity is that the clubs that have the enhanced access policy could have two locks on there gate one for their members and one for
AMA guest from a another club. I know im thinking outside the box but im just putting out some ideas.
for AMA guest that are currently members of a club in good standing. this is just a suggestion but maybe the standard could be you could fly free for maybe ten
days as guest and after the first day of flying you could alone if you disire to, If you need to be the area longer than ten days there would be a standard fee for a
certain number of days.
What im thinking for one possiblity is that the clubs that have the enhanced access policy could have two locks on there gate one for their members and one for
AMA guest from a another club. I know im thinking outside the box but im just putting out some ideas.
06-16-2010, 07:31 PM
#7
RE: Flying Field Access
Like I posted we have a four month membership with full flying privledges (no voting rights) for twenty bucks. If thats not enough then Whats next we pay them?
The AMA cannot mandate such things and if they tried it would cause kaos as well as likely the loss of many flying sites.
John
The AMA cannot mandate such things and if they tried it would cause kaos as well as likely the loss of many flying sites.
John
06-16-2010, 07:47 PM
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RE: Flying Field Access
The members of the club work hard to create and maintain a flying field. It is a privilege to fly at the field. I do not think it is AMA's (who have no part in creation and maintenance of the field) place to dictate policy for use of the field.
Respect the policy of the clubs you are visiting. 'Landing fees' in my opinion are a hassle to deal with. The club members are there to fly, not play moneycounter.
Articflyer, choose one of the clubs and join. As a club member you can shape the policy to your liking. I do not know what dues are in your area. Our club dues are $60/year. Take the dues and divide by the number of times you expect to visit and decide if it is worth that amount as a landing fee. You may even score a nice newsletter out of the deal.
Stan
Respect the policy of the clubs you are visiting. 'Landing fees' in my opinion are a hassle to deal with. The club members are there to fly, not play moneycounter.
Articflyer, choose one of the clubs and join. As a club member you can shape the policy to your liking. I do not know what dues are in your area. Our club dues are $60/year. Take the dues and divide by the number of times you expect to visit and decide if it is worth that amount as a landing fee. You may even score a nice newsletter out of the deal.
Stan
06-16-2010, 07:57 PM
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RE: Flying Field Access
ORIGINAL: arcticflyer
I visited one of the clubs recently and talked to some of the members who seemed to be great guys. I asked about AMA guests flying at the field and was told that guests are allowed with a sponsor and according to their club rules can only fly (3) times a season without joining the club. I have run into the same restriction at several other clubs with some minor variations.
Here is my beef as a ''DIEHARD'' flyer........If I spend (5) days at my daughters house (which is only a couple of times a year)....(1) I WILL have planes in the car, (2) I will fly MORE than three times. The question is... do I get to fly at a sanctioned AMA flying field or do I have to fly at a ''rogue'' field or park where there is a greater chance of coming into contact with people, ''KIDS'', pets and.....??????...you get the picture.
I visited one of the clubs recently and talked to some of the members who seemed to be great guys. I asked about AMA guests flying at the field and was told that guests are allowed with a sponsor and according to their club rules can only fly (3) times a season without joining the club. I have run into the same restriction at several other clubs with some minor variations.
Here is my beef as a ''DIEHARD'' flyer........If I spend (5) days at my daughters house (which is only a couple of times a year)....(1) I WILL have planes in the car, (2) I will fly MORE than three times. The question is... do I get to fly at a sanctioned AMA flying field or do I have to fly at a ''rogue'' field or park where there is a greater chance of coming into contact with people, ''KIDS'', pets and.....??????...you get the picture.
But on the other hand, the club has ALWAYS had an associate membership, which one can join as with proof of membership in another AMA club. Only difference from being a full member is no voting rights. It's a whopping $5 bucks. It will never be any more than that. If more clubs had such a thing, you would not run into the issue you have run into. And that is kind of sad, as fliers and AMA members should stick together, are numbers are small enough, no reason to make people mad and lose people.
And we have had people from other parts of the state contact us about being in town to visit family or some such, and we always welcome them to the field.
06-16-2010, 09:30 PM
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RE: Flying Field Access
Ok...they (AMA) "charter clubs", and "they provide site insurance"........I stand corrected!.... However, I believe that most clubs would not be in exsistance without those two things going for them. Which in a round about way was what I was trying to say. So in a way, all of us that contribute help each others sites that are chartered and insured.
No where did I say that I wanted a free ride....as a matter of fact I said I was willing to pay....I would be willing to help cut the grass, train new pilots or assist in any way while I was there. The field that has the $20.00 limited membership is great and that would fit the bill perfectly but I don't have any family in AZ...love to visit though!!! The second field that has the $5.00 associate mebership (THAT IS REALLY CHEAP) is also a great idea. I AM a memeber in good standing of two clubs and DO NOT want to join anymore.
Second senario......The weather is great, I pack all of my gear, drive the ten miles to the field and low and behold no one is there.....last year I drove to one of the fields at least (5) times on week day evenings and no one was there and I respected their rules and did not fly. Why does someone have to physically be there? Say I contact a board member of the club. Let them know who I am, the club I belong to (give them a contact for reference), when I would be in the area, what I fly and get the local rules........How is that going to hurt that club.
No where did I say that I wanted a free ride....as a matter of fact I said I was willing to pay....I would be willing to help cut the grass, train new pilots or assist in any way while I was there. The field that has the $20.00 limited membership is great and that would fit the bill perfectly but I don't have any family in AZ...love to visit though!!! The second field that has the $5.00 associate mebership (THAT IS REALLY CHEAP) is also a great idea. I AM a memeber in good standing of two clubs and DO NOT want to join anymore.
Second senario......The weather is great, I pack all of my gear, drive the ten miles to the field and low and behold no one is there.....last year I drove to one of the fields at least (5) times on week day evenings and no one was there and I respected their rules and did not fly. Why does someone have to physically be there? Say I contact a board member of the club. Let them know who I am, the club I belong to (give them a contact for reference), when I would be in the area, what I fly and get the local rules........How is that going to hurt that club.
06-16-2010, 09:51 PM
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RE: Flying Field Access
ORIGINAL: arcticflyer
Ok...they (AMA) ''charter clubs'', and ''they provide site insurance''........I stand corrected!.... However, I believe that most clubs would not be in exsistance without those two things going for them. Which in a round about way was what I was trying to say. So in a way, all of us that contribute help each others sites that are chartered and insured.
Ok...they (AMA) ''charter clubs'', and ''they provide site insurance''........I stand corrected!.... However, I believe that most clubs would not be in exsistance without those two things going for them. Which in a round about way was what I was trying to say. So in a way, all of us that contribute help each others sites that are chartered and insured.
I do agree that the site insurance is a major contributor to field acquisition and retention, but as has been stated before, clubs put a lot into their fields and such once they are fortunate enough to secure a place to fly.
06-16-2010, 10:02 PM
#13
RE: Flying Field Access
ORIGINAL: JohnBuckner
Like I posted we have a four month membership with full flying privledges (no voting rights) for twenty bucks. If thats not enough then Whats next we pay them?
The AMA cannot mandate such things and if they tried it would cause kaos as well as likely the loss of many flying sites.
John
Like I posted we have a four month membership with full flying privledges (no voting rights) for twenty bucks. If thats not enough then Whats next we pay them?
The AMA cannot mandate such things and if they tried it would cause kaos as well as likely the loss of many flying sites.
John
clubs to have as many as possible across the nation to have a similar program.OTHIm not sure why you keep saying the AMA cant mandate such a
program because I never said they could.
06-16-2010, 10:06 PM
#14
RE: Flying Field Access
ORIGINAL: JustPlaneSweet
The members of the club work hard to create and maintain a flying field. It is a privilege to fly at the field. I do not think it is AMA's (who have no part in creation and maintenance of the field) place to dictate policy for use of the field.
Stan
The members of the club work hard to create and maintain a flying field. It is a privilege to fly at the field. I do not think it is AMA's (who have no part in creation and maintenance of the field) place to dictate policy for use of the field.
Stan
06-16-2010, 10:10 PM
#15
RE: Flying Field Access
ORIGINAL: Arbo
I understand where you are coming from. We recently had an issue with a non member using our field when others were not around, and it lead the board to make a 5 time rule: Guests can fly at the field 5 times a year, with another club member there, AND approval from one of the board members (so we can keep track of things).
But on the other hand, the club has ALWAYS had an associate membership, which one can join as with proof of membership in another AMA club. Only difference from being a full member is no voting rights. It's a whopping $5 bucks. It will never be any more than that. If more clubs had such a thing, you would not run into the issue you have run into. And that is kind of sad, as fliers and AMA members should stick together, are numbers are small enough, no reason to make people mad and lose people.
And we have had people from other parts of the state contact us about being in town to visit family or some such, and we always welcome them to the field.
ORIGINAL: arcticflyer
I visited one of the clubs recently and talked to some of the members who seemed to be great guys. I asked about AMA guests flying at the field and was told that guests are allowed with a sponsor and according to their club rules can only fly (3) times a season without joining the club. I have run into the same restriction at several other clubs with some minor variations.
Here is my beef as a ''DIEHARD'' flyer........If I spend (5) days at my daughters house (which is only a couple of times a year)....(1) I WILL have planes in the car, (2) I will fly MORE than three times. The question is... do I get to fly at a sanctioned AMA flying field or do I have to fly at a ''rogue'' field or park where there is a greater chance of coming into contact with people, ''KIDS'', pets and.....??????...you get the picture.
I visited one of the clubs recently and talked to some of the members who seemed to be great guys. I asked about AMA guests flying at the field and was told that guests are allowed with a sponsor and according to their club rules can only fly (3) times a season without joining the club. I have run into the same restriction at several other clubs with some minor variations.
Here is my beef as a ''DIEHARD'' flyer........If I spend (5) days at my daughters house (which is only a couple of times a year)....(1) I WILL have planes in the car, (2) I will fly MORE than three times. The question is... do I get to fly at a sanctioned AMA flying field or do I have to fly at a ''rogue'' field or park where there is a greater chance of coming into contact with people, ''KIDS'', pets and.....??????...you get the picture.
But on the other hand, the club has ALWAYS had an associate membership, which one can join as with proof of membership in another AMA club. Only difference from being a full member is no voting rights. It's a whopping $5 bucks. It will never be any more than that. If more clubs had such a thing, you would not run into the issue you have run into. And that is kind of sad, as fliers and AMA members should stick together, are numbers are small enough, no reason to make people mad and lose people.
And we have had people from other parts of the state contact us about being in town to visit family or some such, and we always welcome them to the field.
Very well said Arbo
06-16-2010, 11:24 PM
#16
My Feedback: (25)
RE: Flying Field Access
I can understand where the original poster is coming from. One club I used to belong to has a rule you have to have at least two people there to fly. It is at an airport and I understand the logic behind it you have to have a spotter for full scale aircraft. But in the same circumstance as a paid club member I could not use the field when I wanted to fly without making a dozen phone calls to find someone to come "babysit". Thus taking the enjoyment out of it if I just wanted to go make a single test flight on a new bird or flight test a radio.
I have flown at many fields across the country and I was welcomed at them all. I was visiting and only there a few days (or only one) and no one asked for landing fees or anything like that because they knew "upfront" I was only there for a short period. Flying at a "non member" field is an extra privelage we can have. I have flown at airshows and events all over and never had a problem. If there is not people at a field that I want to visit. I don't fly. I respect that clubs field. I never expect to fly at a field I visit. But I do hope they will let me. I am respectful and gracious when allowed too.
I have flown at many fields across the country and I was welcomed at them all. I was visiting and only there a few days (or only one) and no one asked for landing fees or anything like that because they knew "upfront" I was only there for a short period. Flying at a "non member" field is an extra privelage we can have. I have flown at airshows and events all over and never had a problem. If there is not people at a field that I want to visit. I don't fly. I respect that clubs field. I never expect to fly at a field I visit. But I do hope they will let me. I am respectful and gracious when allowed too.
06-16-2010, 11:44 PM
#17
RE: Flying Field Access
When ever we visit a field we should always respect their rules that goes with saying and yes the vast marjorty of clubs are friendly toward guest. my point is
that it may be a good idea for the AMA to work with their clubs to try to set some common rules for guest flyers so that when a guest went to one these clubs
you alreadywould know what to expect.
that it may be a good idea for the AMA to work with their clubs to try to set some common rules for guest flyers so that when a guest went to one these clubs
you alreadywould know what to expect.
06-17-2010, 05:46 AM
#19
RE: Flying Field Access
Our field has the same 3 times of flying as a guest. OUR Club has expenses of electric, road repair, building repairs, newsletters, runway improvements of a paved runway, computer ink, lawn mower maintenance and purchase cost, and the list goes on. I suggest that you become an officer of a club to see what it takes to run one. The money has to come from somewhere, and the AMA doesn't normally help with those cost!!!! If we have "free loaders" coming to fly at our field, these cost don't become covered with the current members and the current members dues have to go up! I think you simply can afford the hobby to fly at more then one field. Get over it!!
06-17-2010, 05:58 AM
#20
RE: Flying Field Access
I forgot to mention the Club's monthly cost of port-a-potty, bottled water, and weekly trash pick up! Where do you think this money comes from? AMA? NO, members of the Club!! I belong to two local Clubs and gladly pay dues at both of around $75 a year, for a nice and safe place to fly. Both fields are on public state and county land. In Florida, we also have "Snowbirds" that migrate down for 1-6 months a year to fly. At one of the Clubs, we do have a monthly membership program, otherwise, they all pay for the whole year.
06-17-2010, 07:28 AM
#21
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RE: Flying Field Access
RCflyerDan- In two posts your entire point was "MONEY"....which in my first post last paragraph (READ the whole thing) I eluded to.....and in my second post (READ it) I said I was'nt looking for a free ride......so what is your point? ira d hit the nail on the head. Listen to what we are saying. No one is asking for a free ride.
I am required to be an AMA member to fly at AMA "CHARTERED" and AMA "INSURED" clubs.....all I am asking for is a visitor policy that that puts the shoe on the other foot and lets me fly at those fields. I don't live there....if I did I would happily join.
I am only at my daughters house for approximatley (2 to 3) weeks of an entire year. They only have one membership meeting a year and you have to be there. And for crying out loud I already belong to (2) clubs and really don't want to join (FULL MEMBERSHIP) anymore.
I am required to be an AMA member to fly at AMA "CHARTERED" and AMA "INSURED" clubs.....all I am asking for is a visitor policy that that puts the shoe on the other foot and lets me fly at those fields. I don't live there....if I did I would happily join.
I am only at my daughters house for approximatley (2 to 3) weeks of an entire year. They only have one membership meeting a year and you have to be there. And for crying out loud I already belong to (2) clubs and really don't want to join (FULL MEMBERSHIP) anymore.
06-17-2010, 07:55 AM
#23
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RE: Flying Field Access
Because our city has a high military presence with individuals being posted here for only a short time, we have a special monthly field access fee for those folks connected with the military. We also treat guests who are here for less than a full year in the same manner. Perhaps the club you are interested in has similar provisions.
06-17-2010, 08:26 AM
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RE: Flying Field Access
ORIGINAL: arcticflyer
a member of a great club in Maryland (OP)
And for crying out loud I already belong to (2) clubs and really don't want to join (FULL MEMBERSHIP) anymore.
a member of a great club in Maryland (OP)
And for crying out loud I already belong to (2) clubs and really don't want to join (FULL MEMBERSHIP) anymore.
What is the policy at each for visitors? Why did the clubs create the policy?
I would imagine there are some club rules on visitiors. And probably with good reason.
Just curious.
06-17-2010, 08:35 AM
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RE: Flying Field Access
Since I heard it kicked around one day by our OGG (old grouchy guy, every club has one) the issue always arises around the subject of yes you guessed it......MONEY...OGG says if he has to pay full membership so does everyone else!!!! That is the only reason other than size restriction (number of members) I have ever heard. Since I would only be there for a couple of weeks I don't increase the SIZE of the club so I guess we are back to.......MONEY.
