Silent-AV8R

oops, reading too fast. But none the less, I see no "mis" feasance either. You do and that is where we will have to leave it. You assume all bans are an abuse of power. I do not. What more is there to talk about??

littlecrankshaf

My Feedback: (58)

Really Hmmm...then why ban a particular flying style if not because of physical limitations of the flying site? I would think it were for reasons other than physical limitations of the flying site...wait, that is plainly evident merely via the question...

oh well...that would be the way the club would want it... for their own reasons...what are those reasons according to you again?

bradpaul

Unfortunately that "type of person" is too often associated with "that style of flying".

cloudancer03

My Feedback: (22)

if this truly for warbirds and military flying then they are perfectly okay to not to allow 3d.If that is carried over to regular field flying that would be a real problem.we hold a fly in every fall and a few folks bring 3D planes .I set rules for 3d flying like the other side for hovering etc and if its really good I will even give him flight time by himself for a flight.it certainly entertains spectatorsand can be done safely.the only restriction are jets and only because the room is not adequate for safe operations. again if the event is specific to a type of flying I certainly dont see that as an issue.an all electric event is just that all electric!

find an event you can enjoy your style of flying that is not a distraction.much ado here about nothing!!!

littlecrankshaf

My Feedback: (58)

I disagree but always, the type of person that agrees with you perception is certainly a problem. "Bad" people are found equally in every flying style/type/discipline.

All the 3d pilots I know are very considerate and cordial to others...and I know quite a few....evidently you do not.

littlecrankshaf

My Feedback: (58)

You are right on!

An event should accommodate the type of pilots desired...no issue there.

Club policy on the other hand should be scrutinized carefully...not just take the direction of the few that can make it to meeting...which is often the case and the problem many times. 3D or Glider guiding...no difference...Now after careful consideration a club should be allowed whatever they want...end of story...even if it means restricting others and/or diminishing participation at their field.

Silent-AV8R

I think one error you are making LCS is in thinking that my statements that clubs can pretty much do as they please means I approve of any and all restrictions. That is not the case. But my disagreeing with what a club decides to do is immaterial with respect to their right to do so. This is akin to saying that understanding that the right to free speech means Neo-Nazis can hold a peaceful demonstration means you agree with what is being said.

littlecrankshaf

My Feedback: (58)

After all ,you are the one communicating your position. And your reference about having to type slow is productive how?


Like I said earlier, hard to tell what you mean as you temper everything with the unwavering righteousness you bestow to AMA. If you would just give clear indications of your views regardless of AMA persuasions we might learn something about you... You know, the you that is separate from AMA.


Somehow I feel you are a very good guy but sometimes you just have a little problem expressing it. As always, I leave room for myself to be wrong.

combatpigg

My Feedback: (3)

Whenever I see these discussions about how we should play with our toys, it takes me back to the lessons I learned as a lad on the sand lots.

I'd be curious to know what "sand lot" experience some of the posters here have, as opposed to growing up in front of a TV set.

p51Dpony

Great thread w lots of valid ideas.

No doubt a club can make it's own rules, often when I get to a club and I'm immediately inundated with a seeming excess of rules and regulations, if I can relax and play by their rules by the end of the day some of those rules make sense... and a lot of them don't but it's their field.

A medium or big warbird is probably more dangerous than 3D flying, all the mass but twice the inertia.  It really does come down to courteous flying, making room for folks, and COMMUNICATING with fellow flyers. 

I know in the small fields I've been a member we had lots of space and ecouraged anything that fly's, I can see though in the bigger cosmopolitan fields how more rules evolve, usually as a consequence of having to mandate common-sense or courtesy that someone didn't have at some point.  And let's don't forget the control freak's too who try to keep everyone at their level because it's a comfortable place to be if no-ones doing anything that you haven't done or can't do...

Happy flying. [8D]

Silent-AV8R

Huh. I do not recall even mentioning the AMA in a post.

Again, you have lost me. I thought we were discussing if the club in question can ban 3D at their event and in general at their field. I have repeatedly stated that while I generally oppose bans I understand that many clubs do them and it is within their rights to do so. What else do you need to know about this subject.

My dogs seem to like me. [&:]

cloudancer03

My Feedback: (22)

I belong to a club in florida during the winter and a couple years back a new board dedicated to flying electrics was contemplating making the club all electric.the only presumably vaild reason was a few and I mean a few of the over 100 members decidely would recklessly fly out of bounds.now the club had a strong policy about those violations but rarely enforeced them.One member actually crashed into a house and over a 10 year period probably built a file the size of a phonebook.the gutless wonders eventually did throw him out but were afraid of him..as for the electric s most of the members have gravitated to electrics and the remaining nitro pilots are safe and no problem.they were thinking of grandfathering the current gas planes and that would be fair.

the comments here about 3d pilots being unsafe or something less than desirable is sad ..there should be plenty of room in a club to accomodate most flying styles as long as rules are followed.there should be restrictions for alot of things to promote safety and make flying session enjoyable.and I suppose if an entire membership decided what they want and it banned whatever thats ok too .just find a pplace were your style of flying is ok .but labelling 3d flyers with crude comments is particularly unfair and anal!

crash99

My Feedback: (3)

Guys,

Wow, I have not been on the computer due to I have been busy flying. RCKen, I did not mean to bring out the ugly out of some. We went way off topic here. But I see now there are alot of people that just plan hate 3D. This was about a club with a saction fly in event that is anti 3D. The key word is Anti. I see a direct relationship with the decline with the AMA and clubs that have a anti attidude. Yes I will say any club that is Anti is a bad club for the AMA.

Now, for those who have clamed 3D flyers are unsafe, hog wash. More skill = safer pilots. For the guy that thinks that MD would tail touch on top of his head might need to get a grip on real life. MD is the best and safest pilot I have ever seen. He is a Hobby Promoter all by himself. The AMA could use more like him.

I have seen many midairs at events and all but one was flying in the pattern. Mainly sport and warbird flyers. Lets just throw the cards out there on this subject. The most unsafe pilot is an older pilot as I am sure if the AMA would release the data, it would show clames are higher with AMA pilots over the age of 60. Again, not the point of this thread.

BTW, heli flying is 100% 3D. I fly a heli as well and that takes much more skill than flying my warbird by far. Now lets get back to the real deal. If your club have no restrictions then you belong to a Hobby promoting club due to your good attidude. If not then maybe you are OK will not belonging to a Anti promoting or non promoting club.

I just feel it is important to promote the hobby or when I become a old timer will the hobby die off? Just remember, less AMA membership means higher dues and more non AMA fields popping up.

I have been flying since page one and waiting for the weather to clear so I can get back at it. If your just anti this or anti that then your attidude is the issue.

Crash99

Fathoms

My Feedback: (1)

I for 1 agree Tatrsdad


I am in the hobby 40+ years i willingly joined a club with no Sunday Am nitro flying++++

NO Tirbines ever. i believe this forsters good comunity relations clubs are UNIQUE

They represent the will of the Hobby as they see it Its like eating chicken you pick and

choose what you like

chris1971

Hey Ken,

I agree with you. We used to have a jumbo event here in Tulsa every year but changed it to "the heatwave in the heartland" a few years back and it really took off. Most years we had close to 100 pilots. The problem now is that the Scale and Warbird guys quit coming because of the amount of 3D flying going on. Even when it's supposed to be open flying there was 2 or 3 people hovering over the runway.

Now we decided to have another event just for Warbirds later in the year. We also have a Heli fly-in for those members to get together with other helicopter pilots around the area.

We are going to restrict our warbird show to NO 3D and that is my right as the CD of the show. My point is that just because they restrict one weekend of flying gives no one the right to bash them. Someone posted that the same club is having a 3D event shortly after this one.

RC KEN, are you still planning on coming to the Heatwave? As always it should be a great show!

Chris

FLAPHappy

My Feedback: (209)

I amnew to flying, only 3 years. I joined a Great Club where I live, and have made the best friends ever in this sport and hobby. Most of it is the comoradre and getting to know new people. Some of us fly one or twice, but talk the rest of the day about everything, and it's great. Many different occupations of members, you name it, but they all have knowlwdge of something you do not. So you learn from them.
Anyway,I had a dicussion about this very subject with a friend, and I suggested, if we have a fun fly, set the hours for different events, if possible. In other words , Example: scale/sport 2 hours, 3D 2 hours, Helis 2 hours, all Electric's including jets ( ducted Fans) 2 hours. Electric flying requires silence in the pitts, not some guy running a2 stroke/4 strokeor big gasser at full throttle on the test bench, while electric's are flying.
Not everybody flys all of these aircraft, sowe adjust the time depending on how many participant's there are in each group. You set a time limit depending on how may different aircraft you have, so everybody has their chance to fly. And only that group in that time frame is to fly.
This avoids conflict with scale/sport aircraft and Heli's flying at the same time, plus it's dangerous, same with 3D. Let those pilots havetheir airtime, but stick to the rulesyou set before the event. If it's a two day event,draw up the schedule before the event, advise everyone before hand, then fly and have fun and be Safe.

chris1971

We have tried setting times at the heatwave but you have to have a "Bad guy" to enforce the "rules". That tends to put a damper on things. It's easier for us to just have 3 seperate shows throughout the year. We normally don't have any problems on a normal weekend of flying between 3D, helis and circle flyers as they have been called.

Chris

Lifer

My Feedback: (1)

Crash99,

You need to read what I say, not what you think I say. I have known the Eldon pilot you referred to, and have been flying with him since the late 70's. I have met few better, or with a more pro-model aviation attitude. He has been a long time inspiration.

When I made the reference about a tail-touch on the top of my head, it was, and is, a testimony to his skills. Neither his, nor my judgement would ever lapse to the point that either of us would contemplate such a course of action.

I would never oppose any form of model aviation, but I have my preferences. The club to whom's policies you objected to does not own the field. It is owned by a county in the greater Kansas City area. I believe there are three clubs that share the same field and do so with great cooperation. You seem to have missed the point I made about 3-D fly ins held at the same field. Why?

There is a lot of hatred floating around this thread. I don't understand why, but since I started in this hobby 47 years ago, and hung around a bunch of free-flight and control-line flyers, they were always glad to see another flyer show up and always welcomed him. Now we seem to distrust and even hate anyone who enjoys something different to whatever our passions center around. There are rude, inconsiderate flyers in all segments of this hobby, but they are in the minority. Unfortunately, they are a very VOCAL minority.

Eldon, Missouri is a 2.5 hour drive from Kansas City, Missouri so one has to wonder why you object to a one-day event held at a field you seldom, if ever use that is a 5 hour round trip from your home? Perhaps you, and I need to assume an ambassadorial posture for our segment of the hobby and then things might begin to change for the better. Give this idea some thought, please.

For my own tastes, I have no interests in 3-D, although I did try it for a season flying the very unique design from the gentleman from Eldon I referenced earlier in this letter. I did it solely out of respect for him. I gave the plane to a friend who loves 3-D at the end of that year. I continue to believe that most 3-Ders who lack experience worry me because in the course of teaching literally hundreds of rookies, most lose control of a plane when it is above, and behind them. I have seen this same effect with a big 3-
D plane as well. Not often, but honestly, once was enough. I stand by what I said earlier: Fly off to the side, at one end of the runway. Not in the center because that effectively denies most other pilots use of the field. Share, compromise, and find a way to appreciate all aspects of the hobby.

I'll see you next time I come to an Eldon Fly-In. As it was last time, I was one of the few who did NOT fly 3-D, but I had a good time anyway, and enjoyed the time I spent with my friend of 30, plus years.

FLAPHappy

My Feedback: (209)

Chris 1971:
Normally we do not have any issues with this either. Most pilots wait their turn, when approporiate to fly. When you have a large event, that is where the confusion starts. Everbody has to be on the same page understanding the rules for that event. The Bad Guy, you reffered too is the Safety Officer of a certified club by the AMA. I , was elected the bad guy buy our club. Once I accepted this job, I also accepted the AMA Safety Rules, and to the best of my ability I will enforce them. I am not a cop, but a safety reminder on the field, if something looks not safe, even to other people, we, I, check it out. Yeah, I am the bad guy, but I hope I can save somebody from a mistake and bodily harm to himself or others.
I am very familiar with prop cut's as added by our moderators.
So, in short, read the rules, club , AMA, Field,, and abide by them. No short cuts on Safety, Period.

FLAPHappy

My Feedback: (209)

The Rules of Safety are set up by the AMA. They are straight forwardfrom the AMA.. Every club that is registered with them, honours and abides by the Basic rules. Clubs may adjust their individual rules too their needs, and their changes have to be sent in to the AMA for approval.
This is a Legal Requirement.

If not , your on your own, get a Lawyer, and be prepared.

chris1971

I think you guys misunderstood my quote on "rules" actually my wording wasn't right. what I was talking about was 3D flying at this time and warbird flying at such and such time and so on. We abide by all the AMA rules it's just a matter of people not respecting other peoples time to fly.

The Heatwave is a great show and we have around 100 pilots and 3000 spectators every year and it's easier to have a seperate show for Warbirds because the 3D guys come to fly and fly and fly! We don't want to cramp the 3D guys fun and we want the Warbird guys to have a great show also.

Chris

Silent-AV8R

Sorry, but this is not correct. AMA does not require clubs submit their rules for approval or have any contact with the AMA HQ when a club changes their rules. The only AMA requirement is that clubs follow the current AMA Safety Code. The Safety Code cannot be amended by clubs, only the Executive Council can do that.

bradpaul

Please show me where that legal requirement is within the AMA regulations for Clubs.

blacksunshine80

Tarasdad is right if you cant follow the rules of a club that is hosting an event you shouldnt go or bash there rules. I dont belong to any club for that very reason.

crash99

My Feedback: (3)

To respond to a question, I have no issues with restricting type of flight per event but you should call it what it is. Not a fly in, restricted fly in no 3D. I have attended many events more distance the KC and will keep doing so as long as I can find a hotel. I was responding to a latter post. I did attend a 3D event last year and plan to attend next month.

As far as the issue 3Ders playing a "bad" role at a event. Taylor MDA Fun Fly that is no more. When I was trying to learn 3D using a qhor and profile katana 40 the CD keep yealling to fly over the beans. Everyong did but was treated badly. they went from 130+ to 70 in one year. Now there is no MDA fun fly with their fun police. they killed it. Who is the looser? The MDA and the area. I know we spent $300+ every time we went.

This is about supporting the hobby or pretending to support the hobby. Good clubs and other clubs. The idea the 3D croud is bad and keeps others from flying is a bunch of crap. We can all get along and fly. Ho do I know? we do it at Eldon every week.

Crash99