Gentlemen of the RC model airplane cadre:

Regardless of your feeling about AMA's MA magazine, please read the entire page 9 of the August 2010 issue. Written by Rich Hanson, the writing organization is EXCELLENT and will, through the article, cover almost every question that comes to mind. A quick scan will not do it except maybe for those very fast readers, however I am not one of those so I scanned and then went back and read in detail.

The subject is the Temporary Flight Restriction (TFR) now being issued for a nmber of reasons as reasoned by the government agencies. DO NOT miss this one.

The Aug issue is an outstanding MA issue overall, however this one page is better than that. Great Job Mr. Hansen.

I too liked Rich's article. Here's a handy tool where you can see all the current TFRs on a map:

http://www.runwayfinder.com/#

Zoom in, switch to map or satellite view to see the limits. Click on the red outline to bring up the details

Yeap, great article, I love being talking too like I'm completely out of touch.
I'm sure the terrors will heed those TFRs

No the terrorists will not heed the TFR's, but if the law abiding flyers do, then anyone flying is a potential terrorist. Better to only have to check out a couple potential threats than hundreds. Saves a lot of my (taxpayer) money.

So if I am unaware of a TFR and fly my CX in my backyard is it the FBI or CIA that will come for me?
Hmmm, I think that would fun.

Generally secret service, but not to worry they are not the Fascists' that some would have you believe, although they do have little tolerance for selfrighteous morons.

A fascist is someone who wants everything made into law, even when it's permissable for you to blow your nose.

Yes, some of these, "types" are fascists.

What are they going to do beside make fools of themselves. I can just see it on TV. "Secret Service makes fools of themselves again with paranoia over toy." I really don;t think they are that retarded.

Anyone breathing is a "potential" terrorist,, give it time, didn't you mean to say only aircraft in the area are potential threats??

I think with all the technology at their disposal the Air Force can tell the difference between an inbound threat target and me doing loops and snap rolls back and forth near a cornfield 45 miles away?

It's all "see what we're doing" political BS, just like gun control laws and this stupid War on Drugs we've been loosing for 25 years

Now add on Rich's article,, O I feel better now, the AMA is Talking to the FAA about it,, LOL,, More "See what we're doing" BS

My White silver haired 70 year old Mom, and my Blonde 14 year old Nephew got selected for extra screening at LAX a couple weeks ago..
Thank you Homeland Security, Money well spent, I can sleep soundly now

TFR are issued for good reasons - generally. I've seen some that have made me raise my eyebrows, and some that just don't make sense. I think the folks who tell the FAA what to issue tend to go a bit overboard at times. Still, I'm not going to play the try-them-and-see-if-they're-serious game. If there's a TFR restricting RC flight in my area I either won't fly or I'll go somewhere else to fly. I really don't need a visit from local and state law enforcement accompanied by the FBI, FAA and Secret Service. (As a former CHP dispatcher I know the drill because I've witnessed the mayhem a prank call created - my list minus the FAA since no aircraft were involved. Long story and one I really can't discuss in detail.)

Sorry, I am not going to be checking for TFRs. The TFRs are usually issued for real pilots, not RC. Just more mumbo-jumbo like the "drone" scare lately. Unless your airplane is larger than a Canada goose, it aint gonna raise an eyebrow unless you are heading right at Air Force One. Heck, they never noticed a jumbojet flying into the Pentagon. They haven't beefed anything up except at the airports for show-n-tell to make everyone think they are doing something. Yeah, its just like the "drug war", they could stop the drug trade if they weren't all paid of the cartels. they just go after the replaceable middlemen and users. Just a big joke to me. I remember "duck and cover" in grade school so I know how the game is played. We are not any safer from terrorism today than before 9/11. They just want everyone to think we are.

^^^ What he said ^^^^ Getting real sick of the toiletry search administration. You should hear of some of their hijinks on the pro pilot boards.

Knee jerk reactions kicking civil liberties in the nads.

Sorry you took offense, but realize that not everyone is as exceptionally well informed as you appear to be. I think Rich defaulted on the side of assuming that there are people who do not know how to spell "TFR" let alone know what they are and what they mean.

It will be very interesting to hear about any future encounters between model plane flyers and the feds for not checking the TFRs before hand.

I wonder how they handle this stuff in Israel?

I doubt we will see anything like that unless somebody decides it would be fun to buzz the motorcade with his 40% [X(]

I really don't see the Secret Service or anyone else tracking down every model flier within the area of a TFR. But I still think it is a good idea to follow them as best we can since I see no positive outcome of getting caught ignoring them. The only motivation I see for non-compliance is some juvenile reaction to authority or some bizarre decision to "show the man" or some such nonsense. I suppose people who will ignore these are the same folks who will run a red light late at night because nobody is watching them.

I think that including models in a TFR is a little over conservative, but until we can get that language removed I will comply with them. We get them in LA fairly often, so far they have not been a huge problem to comply with.

They would drop a bomb on your house, maybe take out the block because they have to be sure they got the entire PLO cell.

Exactly,
He felt it necessary to compose a full page article explaining TFRs because he obviously thinks there are enough of us in the AMA that have no clue, if that's not condescending to the membership I don't know what is. IMO 2-3 paragraphs explaining what the AMA is doing about it for Us would have been sufficient.

And No, I consider my level of knowledge pretty average among my fellow hobbyists

All my RC Clubs obey these but, the most interesting part of this whole discussion is that you will not see any Feds coming after you.

We have encountered a large RF Pulse such that all four possible RC Aircraft that was flying came down within seconds of each other back in April 13th, 2009 and investigations show that the most probable reason was a jamming device as VIP traveling in the area.

Therefore, if you don't take those alerts then, possibly your model will get shot down.

I don't understand people......Posters here would rather give flying models a black eye, if the feds were to enforce TFR's, rather than follow them, show responsibility, and play it safe? I too realize a foamie or a backyard parkflyer is a stretch. It's bad enough the public sees modeling as "toys" being flown by people who refuse to grow up, so why give them ANY new reasons to think that? By not paying attention to the TFR's you are showing the same people that make the laws there IS a reason to make MORE laws controling RC. I know the SAME people saying it is stupid, for whatever other reason, to not have to listen to TFR's are the same people who will come on here and complain when they get caught and booked.

Here is an example of an encounter with my local FAA.....

If you think the FAA is fooling around with ANYTHING they have power over, here is a real life example. A few years ago I was working about a mile from Cleveland Hopkins airport setting a rooftop AC unit. No one thought to contact the FAA, the crane was only 90' tall. We weren't in any flight path, didn't pose a threat to any aircraft, AND DIDN'T KNOW WE WERE SUPPOSED TO CONTACT THE FAA ABOUT USING THE CRANE IN THEIR GROUND CONTROL RADAR "CONTROL ZONE". The crane wasn't up 5 minutes and had only made a practice swing to see if it could reach the roof curb the AC unit was to sit on, when the FAA, Cleveland Police, and local FBI rep showed up, and they weren't happy! Telling them we didn't know about the "notifying FAA ground radar" of our intentions only enraged the FAA guys. They made it VERY clear it was UP TO US TO KNOW THE LAWS, AND OBAY THEM!! We had to cancel the lift or get fined. We then had to file with the FAA at Hopkins and reschedule the lift. They DO have the power AND WILL PROVE IT if you cross them, so why not just play it safe and not fly?

And please, this is not a made up story so save the comments like it was.....



I have to add this to this post to make sure some readers can understand the point of the post....The point IS NOT the crane, its height, its location etc etc, but rather that power hungry Gov't workers can and will show off their power whether they are right or not. If you re-read the first paragraph of my post you will see that it was aimed at why test the TFR's and whether they apply to us, and the example was cited to show you won't win. If you keep the example in context, you will see my point. I never said they were wrong, questioned their power, or argued with them. I simply tried to show you should look before you leap. Just be a "good neighbor" and don't test the FAA. THEY WILL WIN every time if you confront them so why do it?! Now if you still want to comment on the crane etc, go back and read my first paragraph AGAIN, as many times as it requires to understand the point of my post......Thank You!

The crane episode was a complete abuse of their power. They could have just as easily exercised some good old civility, issued a warning and let your private enterprise that operates in the real, competitive World of business get on with an honest day's worth of work.

A completely alien concept to many of Uncle Sugar's flock.

The gov't is full of jerks, I could name a few dozen cops that arrest people on bogus charges. The judges think those cops are jerks too. As for "more laws" regarding RC, there aren't a heck of alot to begin with. Mostly FCC guidlines and FAA no fly zones. I honestly think most of these scares are the AMA's way of justifying itself. Like a few thousand hobbyists is going to change the mind of anything the FAA or FCC wants to do. More likely is pressure from the RC manufacturers and top distributors.

I think you may have mistaken about who to contact. The issue with cranes is within the clear zones of an airfield, not ground control radar. Although there are airports that with unique restrictions. But to be on the save side contact the FAA whenever setting up any tall object and withen 5 NM of an airport. This isn't new, been around since the 40's or 50's.

Seriously? OK. From now on the assumption is that everyone knows everything and there is no reason to tell anyone anything for fear of offending them.

Don't post information Silent. You are just asking to get yelled at. BTDT
I had no problem with the sharing of the details. I just don't think it is that big a deal for the majority of RCers. However, the guys with the big birds or those who like to go beyond visual contact or those who like to test the ceiling limits need to pay attention to it.

Besides some posters missing my point, ( For those that did I was trying to say WHY MAKE WAVES! ) I guess I was wasting my time posting something to be informative. The encounter DID happened to me and no one else on this forum was present to know the details! This was an ACTUAL ENCOUNTER that was posted to show how some officials go overboard. It was not open to interpretation because it is what it was, and we were told by the FAA what I posted. Opinions as to what it was are just that OPINIONS, and not what happened. I guess in the future I will let all the "know it alls" who weren't present, but wish to contest and correct the facts, make all the posts. Sorry to waste all your time with facts that actually happened. I'll just leave this forum to the "know it all pros".....

Sorry if I sound a little irate but it gets me when people correct my posts and what happened, when I don't remember THEM being there............I had a crane operator, a delivery truck driver, one apprentice and another journeyman, there besides myself. I guess I didn't see the guy from RCU......