Originally Posted by rc manic
(Post 12126013)
Let's all be realistic about this. Nothing is for free. The AMA has nothing to gain by giving free membership. As it is, they can barely maintain their current status with our dues, thus the recent increase.
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The AMA is not barely maintaining. After the 2008 economic crash the AMA lost nearly 1.5 million is revenue. So rather than downsize in spending the AMA opted to increase dues bringing back that nearly 1.5 million dollar loss.
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If you go through the financials you will see they did in fact downsize in spending. They even brought on a financial person to assist with that, in addition to re positioning assets for better returns. The loss of 1.5 million in revenue 7 years ago wasn't that significant, at least it doesn't appear to have been when looking at all the other numbers. Membership has grown considerably since then, and somewhere in some thread I think I posted the last 5 years of membership, with at least 3 if not 4 years of substantive growth. The numbers are all there in the financials. I think there were many considerations for raising the dues, chief among them that it had been 13 years since it had been done before. Not many thinkgs I can think of that stay flat in pricing over 13 years. Gas sure is dropping in price around here though...almost getting to $2.00 a gallon. Oh happy days!
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Including hard membership numbers broke down in the financials would be more helpful for this conversation. I don't agree with your argument.
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Originally Posted by TimJ
(Post 12126277)
Including hard membership numbers broke down in the financials would be more helpful for this conversation. I don't agree with your argument.
Mike |
Originally Posted by rcmiket
(Post 12126290)
I really don't see why they can;t breakdown the membership numbers. I'd like to know just where we stand.
Mike |
Sorry, I don't have a big problem with not knowing exact figures down to single numbers. It's just another data set people want suddenly because they can't find it easily, or god forbid asking the right people. Does it have any real bearing on your membership, or how you fly, or the benefits derived from membership? No, not really. If they say they are at 187,000, I'll take them at their word. The financial reports are completed then verified by a nuetral third party. I'd rather see hard numbers on "profits" (yes I know it's non-profit), income, expenses etc. I fail to believe 60k of the 180,000 memberships are given away for free...but at the end of the day....I'm not running the show, and other than a few folks here, it doesn't seem to be a huge bone of contention. I think we got bigger issues to deal with.
Like who's paying the AMA membership for the Yuneec. :) |
Originally Posted by porcia83
(Post 12126321)
Sorry, I don't have a big problem with not knowing exact figures down to single numbers. It's just another data set people want suddenly because they can't find it easily, or god forbid asking the right people. Does it have any real bearing on your membership, or how you fly, or the benefits derived from membership? No, not really. If they say they are at 187,000, I'll take them at their word. The financial reports are completed then verified by a nuetral third party. I'd rather see hard numbers on "profits" (yes I know it's non-profit), income, expenses etc. I fail to believe 60k of the 180,000 memberships are given away for free...but at the end of the day....I'm not running the show, and other than a few folks here, it doesn't seem to be a huge bone of contention. I think we got bigger issues to deal with.
Like who's paying the AMA membership for the Yuneec. :) What bigger issues are you referring too? I thought everything was just wonderful as you see it. Mike |
Originally Posted by rcmiket
(Post 12126322)
Here we go again. Just becasue you don't want to know we shouldn't either?
What bigger issues are you referring too? I thought everything was just wonderful as you see it. Mike Sorry you don't agree with my opinions....such is life. If you want the numbers so bad, ask for them. Let me know if that makes any difference in the world to you, other than having a new set of numbers to look at. If you don't think we have bigger issues to deal with, so be it. I happen to think we do, in and out of the hobby. |
It is a big deal. The corporation (AMA) should be able to separate and show in the financials where their money is coming from. If I was running the corporation I would want to know that break down in order to act quickly if their happens to be an up or down tick in revenue. The corporation has several different revenue streams. It would be unwise to not be able to distinguish where the money is coming from. I'm sure on the back side the accountant is keeping track of it. We the members should be worried about this too. Especially those that are BODs at a local club.
Like I stated earlier, either Best Buy or Yuneec has to be paying for membership. It doesn't make much sense for the AMA to just hand out free memberships. Unless on the tax side the AMA can recoup funds as a promotional item. |
Originally Posted by TimJ
(Post 12126349)
It is a big deal. The corporation (AMA) should be able to separate and show in the financials where their money is coming from. If I was running the corporation I would want to know that break down in order to act quickly if their happens to be an up or down tick in revenue. The corporation has several different revenue streams. It would be unwise to not be able to distinguish where the money is coming from. I'm sure on the back side the accountant is keeping track of it. We the members should be worried about this too. Especially those that are BODs at a local club.
Past performance is sometimes a pretty good predictor of future performance, within reason of course. I don't think there has been any huge uptick or loss of membership or revenue, at least not that I recall seeing in prior financials. They have decades of data to look at and calculate within a reasonable degree what is coming down the pike. The CFO shares his thoughts via the MA mag, check out July's column for instance. Sure, I guess it would be nice to have every number for everything we want available a click of a button, again, I personally don't see the need for it, but I get that some do want it. Fair enough. I'm not sure I follow you on the local BOD comment though, how do you translate the lack of this data, or the worry factor, as something that would translate down to a BOD level? I don't think the clubs I've belonged to or been involved with as an officer have ever been concerned about this? Not saying it's not something to worry about for you or your club, hence the question. |
I am more worried about whether the AMA could be held liable for something these guys do when not at a AMA field...
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I see the Best Buy and Yuneec deal as nothing more than a CYA move for themselves given the FAA's Know Before You Fly campaign and the rest of the 'stuff' potentially coming down the DOT pipe.
They need to be able to later say in court that they did what they could to imform buyers. |
Originally Posted by porcia83
(Post 12126337)
The only thing happening again is you twisting what I'm saying, being presumptuous about what I think you should and shouldn't know...and being sarcastic. Really no need to go down that path, but if that's your thing, have at it.
Sorry you don't agree with my opinions....such is life. If you want the numbers so bad, ask for them. Let me know if that makes any difference in the world to you, other than having a new set of numbers to look at. If you don't think we have bigger issues to deal with, so be it. I happen to think we do, in and out of the hobby. Not going there again. Mike |
Originally Posted by rcmiket
(Post 12126370)
Not going there again.
Mike |
Originally Posted by gsoav8r
(Post 12126362)
I see the Best Buy and Yuneec deal as nothing more than a CYA move for themselves given the FAA's Know Before You Fly campaign and the rest of the 'stuff' potentially coming down the DOT pipe.
They need to be able to later say in court that they did what they could to imform buyers. |
Originally Posted by foodstick
(Post 12126356)
I am more worried about whether the AMA could be held liable for something these guys do when not at a AMA field...
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Originally Posted by porcia83
(Post 12126353)
Past performance is sometimes a pretty good predictor of future performance, within reason of course. I don't think there has been any huge uptick or loss of membership or revenue, at least not that I recall seeing in prior financials. They have decades of data to look at and calculate within a reasonable degree what is coming down the pike. The CFO shares his thoughts via the MA mag, check out July's column for instance.
Sure, I guess it would be nice to have every number for everything we want available a click of a button, again, I personally don't see the need for it, but I get that some do want it. Fair enough. I'm not sure I follow you on the local BOD comment though, how do you translate the lack of this data, or the worry factor, as something that would translate down to a BOD level? I don't think the clubs I've belonged to or been involved with as an officer have ever been concerned about this? Not saying it's not something to worry about for you or your club, hence the question. |
Would you think the AMA membership would be for their park program which is about half the cost? Hopefully all these drone yayhoo's don't think they need to join our club.
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Originally Posted by Flight Risk
(Post 12126661)
Would you think the AMA membership would be for their park program which is about half the cost? Hopefully all these drone yayhoo's don't think they need to join our club.
What a welcoming thought to prospective new members...how...pleasant. Can't imagine why some would go off and fly on their own when clubs have the mentality that they are yahoos if they fly drones. #insertbrotherhood here for the win. :rolleyes: |
Originally Posted by TimJ
(Post 12126646)
I am thinking along the lines of a pulse of our community. Concerning membership retention, regional and national. Reaching out to people with a kind hand and asking questions if they don't renew. That small amount of data could help clubs and the AMA in several ways.
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I really don't see quad fliers ever joining clubs for the most part... From first hand experience and watching things unfold these guys are MOSTLY interested in video, the quad allows cool video.
Other than the guys racing them FPV the flying aspect seems to be a distant second. I have taken a lot of video from and of my airplanes at my field..and very soon you realize it doesn't change much. The camera/quad guys are going to be wanting to fly new places, and to get thrilling new shots.. the last thing they will want is to PAY to fly at the same controlled field. |
Originally Posted by foodstick
(Post 12127883)
I really don't see quad fliers ever joining clubs for the most part... From first hand experience and watching things unfold these guys are MOSTLY interested in video, the quad allows cool video.
Other than the guys racing them FPV the flying aspect seems to be a distant second. I have taken a lot of video from and of my airplanes at my field..and very soon you realize it doesn't change much. The camera/quad guys are going to be wanting to fly new places, and to get thrilling new shots.. the last thing they will want is to PAY to fly at the same controlled field. |
Originally Posted by porcia83
(Post 12126337)
The only thing happening again is you twisting what I'm saying, being presumptuous about what I think you should and shouldn't know...and being sarcastic. Really no need to go down that path, but if that's your thing, have at it.
Sorry you don't agree with my opinions....such is life. If you want the numbers so bad, ask for them. Let me know if that makes any difference in the world to you, other than having a new set of numbers to look at. If you don't think we have bigger issues to deal with, so be it. I happen to think we do, in and out of the hobby. It's fun to watch him squirm when he's being forced to eat his own cooking. |
Slow day eh.....get well friend, I wish you the best.
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