Proposal - AMA discount for Active Duty E6 & below
 

I am proposing the following to my regional VP. When I floated the idea before (informally), he told me it would not be brought to a vote. I don't know about you, but I could care less if they vote it down, but it bugs me that they won't even vote and go on record. So I've decided to formally submit it again under the bylaws.

Anyone who would like to see them at least vote on it, I'd appreciate the help and would ask that you send the same email to your regional VP...

------ PROPOSAL ----------------------------------------------------------------
As a "bona fide" AMA member, pursuant to Article XI, Section 6 of the AMA bylaws, I submit the following formal request for Executive Council action on this proposal:

"With appropriate proof of service as detailed herein, provide active duty U.S. Military members, E6 and below, a membership discount equal to that provided to seniors. Proof of service shall be a "Statement of Service" or other similar document on DoD letterhead signed by the unit head, an individual with "by direction" signature authority (other than the applicant), a Staff Judge Advocate, or any commissioned officer O-4 and above." (see note)

Justification: Our organization is giving away free memberships to youths, aged 14-19. Yet those under 18 are unlikely to have jobs and thus the resources to put toward the hobby. On the other hand, active duty military members are numerous, young, disciplined (follow safety guidelines), and technically savvy. Furthermore, many are engaged in some way with aviation in their profession. While they have a job and income that exceeds those of the youth ages, oftentimes they're also supporting young families. The fact that many are on food stamps has been well documented, and this is especially true for the lower paygrade enlisted personnel. Under various programs other recreational activities (theme parks, sporting events, etc.) provide discounts to encourage participation. I would like to see AMA honor the service of these young Americans and encourage them to participate in our hobby and join our organization by extending a discount.

I respectfully request feedback on whether any member or the President agrees to put this on the agenda.

Sincerely,
(your name)
AMA#: (your AMA number)

Note: Should a member submit a copy of their DoD ID card in lieu of above, I would recommend AMA accept it as proof of service. However, I would strongly recommend that AMA not encourage such practice. Although it is not well known, the copying of a DoD ID card is a strict violation of Title 18, U.S. Code, Part I, Chapter 33, Section 701.

Our club does not charge dues to active duty personal. Seem like this kinda thing should be handled by the local clubs.

Mike

For club dues, agree. But for the AMA membership itself, would like to see them get the same discount as Seniors - especially E6 and below.

I'd go along with that.

Mike

As a retired USAF E6, I thank you for the thought.

Good idea.

So why limit this to active duty, and enlisted only? Are there not first lieutenants with large families struggling to make ends meet as well? How about Senior Master Sergeants? You take huge liberties here and elsewhere talking about young teens (are you one of those grouchy old men who yell get off my grass?). I'll throw out some broad strokes too...I distinctly remember lots of younger airmen, specifically those in barracks, who had top of the line cars, clothes, and most importantly stereo equipment. They all had the latest and greatest stereo gear, and speakers too. I remember them clamoring at for the Bose 901's at the BX when then came out, they all had to have them. Oddly enough, not that much different now. $700 phones, top of the line sneakers (actually more popular now than the stereos), and of course cars. Living paycheck to paycheck half of the money going to a lease/car payment above their means, and most of the rest going to the BX credit card account. And they should get a discount?

Of course it's great to want discounts for the military, who could possibly say no to that and not feel unpatriotic?

But why stop at the military. Why not open this up to law enforcement personnel too. Should it be state cops, or should city/local officers get a discount too? How about Federal LE agencies, CIA, FBI, DHS, TSA, NSA, ATF, and Marshals too!

Civil Air Patrol?

How about first responders? Firemen, ambulance, paramedics. Perhaps the docs that work the ER, and nurses too. And paraprofessionals.

The special interest groups, and subsequent requests would open up the door to a very slippery slope.

Rather than ask the AMA to decrease it's income for the whole of the organization to allow some to get a discount (you've provided no suggest number for how many are currently members or could/would take advantage of this), why not apply pressure externally. How about you put this kind of request into a veterans group like The Wounded Warrior Project? I'm sure you're aware of the almost $400 million dollars they raised in 2015. About 1.1 million of those dollars were raised "renting" and actually selling donor information, despite requests NOT to do that. Always nice to make a donation to one entity, then have 5 or 6 more bury you with direct mail and phone solicitation too. The 400k the president of this org makes is nice too. Why not write to them and ask them to earmark about 1% of that money they earned selling donor names to fund low..or better yet NO cost memberships to both active duty and retired vets? You won't of course, but I can only imagine the response you would have if they said no, as the AMA has done in the past. I'm guessing the AMA will catch the grief, not anyone else.

A more productive solution might be to ask for people who donate to the AMA Foundation (do you?) to earmark their donation for something like this idea, ie a hardship or special consideration membership. The foundation took in $219,000 last year, and it looks like there was the potential for another 300k to get moved into that. Along the lines of what I mentioned earlier, a suggestion could be made to earmark a certain percentage of that, say even one percent. Then...and this I think is the good part....the AMA looks for a matching "grant" from the Wounded Warrior Project...and boom...about $5,000 can be earmarked for that initiative. Take a look at the most recent EC meeting notes, specifically Old Business, #9. Certainly seems like this could be something that would fit one of the goals to "build programming with the AMA".

I do believe your intentions are good, but candidly it seems like you already know what the answer is going to be and you just want to force the issue and have something else to vilify the AMA over. Do you think there is any other way you can approach this?

I think there is a more gradual way to approach this...in a not so confrontational manner....that has a better chance of getting legs....and perhaps achieve a more positive outcome.

Are you going to the WRAM show in NJ this weekend by any chance?

I don't get you. You have no problem giving away youth memberships ( last count over 50,000 of them). All this is a reduction in dues for active duty personal. I'm all for it and at any rank.

Mike

To know me is to love me, then you'll get me. It's well worth the effort, ask the voices in my head, they will agree. :)

You are missing the big picture though, this really isn't about a discount. This is about him...and what he wants.

I'm equally puzzled that you would advocate for less dues being collected when you're one of the most vocal opponents of what the AMA does with every penny they have. Yes, I have no issues whatsoever with youth memberships being given away, I consider it the best investment money the AMA "spends", but in reality it doesn't really cost them much, if anything.

I think Franklin's approach is flawed. Now before anyone goes off all half-cocked, I'm not against military folks being recognized in some fashion for what they do. I just think there is a better way to approach it, and to possibly fund it. Not just asking for something....working for something!

At the core, I think allowing for discounts for one group will open to the door to other groups asking, then getting ticked off when they don't get their way. We can already see that this is where this request is going, here he said:

"but I could care less if they vote it down, but it bugs me that they won't even vote and go on record"

This is a temper tantrum, and it reads to me like the real goal here is to get a rejection, this time an actual one in writing rather than taking someone's word for it like he did last time. Rather than start slowly, gather some data, try to get some buy in and build some consensus, he launches his salvo here, and goes right for a "finding". Oh, and of course asks others to join in too. No lessons learned from the last write-in failures I guess. No finesse, no statesmanship, no due diligence. For someone who purports to have such in-depth experience with non profits and government agencies, his approach is like a bull in a china shop.

So he really doesn't care if it gets voted up....that says it all right up there there. After years of dumping on the AMA at every single turn, he now wants something from them. And by golly...if he doesn't get it, well, he'll have lots more to complain about. The more I read it, the more despicable and selfish it sounds, that he would leverage this issue...a discount for active duty military, all the while not caring if it's voted on. He just wants a "no" on the record. Absolutely disgusting, I find it dishonorable.

I've noted above what I think could be one step in series of steps to try to put something together. It requires actual work, not just hiding behind an RC forum and knocking out e-mails, and asking random anonymous people to do the same thing to support him.

:cool: Hi Franklin ,

:) Great idea on the reduced rate for veterans ,

:mad: BUT !!!!

:( I really think your great idea can stand on it's own merit , without needing to berate other members (youth memberships) in order to justify it . The reduced fee for veterans ? I'm in 100% . The mean spirited "bittchslap" you laid on the youth members ? You own that all by yourself , and shame on you for it .......

That's the scary part.

Mike

It's only scary when they disagree.

His view of youth/youth members appear to be less than favorable as evidenced here, and in another thread too:

"On the free memberships, I don't know that a youth who shows up with an iPhone6, Beats headphones, a DX9, and a plane with digital servos is poverty level and rates a free membership"

I don't think he mentioned veterans, only active duty, but veterans could be part of it as well. Criteria would have to be established for that as well but not impossible.

His point of the enlisted men (and women) being deserving really didn't need to have him pointing out a membership category that he deems as "less deserving" to somehow justify the idea . I will lay down a little "real world wisdom" for Franklin here ; "I know several youth members of my flying club , they are the children of fellow RC pilots , and i do NOT know any ""rich"" people , just us of the rapidly disappearing middle class" .

PS , in case you can't tell , I'm 100% proud of the AMA having the free youth membership category !

I advocated E6 and below because that's where we discounted many of our own recreational activities.

The "I could care less..." comment was a turn of phrase. If they choose to vote it down, that's there prerogative. But I think it deserves a vote. Just like the vote opportunity they gave for the free youth memberships, and just like the vote opportunity they gave for senior memberships.

Then they can just vote it down. Unless bringing it to a vote is somehow a burden.

I propose that we give FAA inspectors free membership. Think of all of the good will that would bring with the FAA!

Just answering the absurd with the absurd.

Actually I'm not in favor of giving it to all veterans, just the E6 and below active duty. I suppose I could be talked into disabled vets - maybe use same break point feds do for most programs 60% disabled. Could be verified by letter from VA that all vets get with their disability rating.

:) I agree with him ^

Well lets forget about the Vietnam vets no sense in recognizing them now, since it's been almost 50 years, why start now.
Nobody cared back then, why start now.
Kinda late in my book......

Boy that's really swell that you could "maybe be talked into " recognizing disabled vets GOOD FOR YOU!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Your a heck of a guy .......

In the 8 plus years I've been involved in this hobby, and however many clubs I've flown at or visited, I've never seen anything close to the spoiled rich kid persona he alluded to. Not even close. The kids I see are everyday kids like we probably were, enjoying the hell out of this hobby, thankful for any plane they were flying. I've been lucky enough to meet and be fellow members at clubs with some kids you might have seen in your travels. Dean Lampron from up your way in Mass, and the McCormack boys from New Hampshire. I've watch all three of them over the past 5 years excel to the point of shaming most folks at our club. National champ level flying. It's a thrill to see them grow and their skills improve. All three of these kids are as far from Franklin's made up world as you can get. Salt of the earth, generous with their time, and humble as hell about their abilities. All three have worked incredibly hard to get where they are, and all without 200 Dr Dre Beats on their head. They are fantastic with kids at events, and also spend considerable time afterwards helping our members trim out their planes, and answer questions about programming their transmitters. They are the future of this hobby, and are exemplary ambassadors.

Clubs should be working overtime to try to figure out how to get more youths into this great hobby. Our club charges one extra dollar for "family memberships", be it one extra child or 5.