Originally Posted by Stickslammer
(Post 12406745)
Just a thought, how about a sub forum in R/C Airplanes titled "Independent Flying Sites. There must be landowners around the country who, whether hobbyists or not, allow some of their land to be used to fly model aircraft independent of the AMA.
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Originally Posted by Propworn
(Post 12406903)
...... even the back of a prison........
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No it was on my way to a competition in Fort Worth.
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Texas and a coupla other states, have it written into state law/state constitution that, a landowner can not be sued for allowing recreational use of his property.
so, here, the whole landowner requires it insurance scam is rather moot. |
Originally Posted by mongo
(Post 12407060)
Texas and a coupla other states, have it written into state law/state constitution that, a landowner can not be sued for allowing recreational use of his property.
so, here, the whole landowner requires it insurance scam is rather moot. |
Originally Posted by mongo
(Post 12407060)
Texas and a coupla other states, have it written into state law/state constitution that, a landowner can not be sued for allowing recreational use of his property.
so, here, the whole landowner requires it insurance scam is rather moot. In a period of 9/10 years I traveled from Windsor Ontario Canada/Detroit down to Florida/Georgia and Fort Worth Texas for the SAE Aerodesign East and West contest. During the 2 weeks each time I spent the better part of a week both coming and going to the competition seeking out and flying at model airports along the way. In 99% of the cases the fields have been located on public lands. When I asked why it always was the lack of or cost of insurance for the land owner. The few private clubs were expensive, had a long waiting list to join and usually the owner himself was heavily involved in RC. One of the biggest complaints was because they were public they could not keep the general public from using the land. One fellow who hated the club used to walk his dogs regularly on the field and encourage them to crap all over the pit area when no one was there. I was told that all you needed to fly at these sites was membership in the AMA you did not need to be a member of the club. Very few had clauses in the agreement that membership in the club was a prerequisite for using the field. Like you said it varies from state to state. So far I have flown in Michigan, Ohio, Kentucky, Tennessee, Georgia, Florida, Alabama, Louisiana, Mississippi, Texas, Missouri, and Illinois. This summer I intend on spending an extended time in Newfoundland. I will be traveling to and from via the upper eastern states. I always have towed my toy box so I will see how many other states I can add to my list. In all my travels I must say I have never met a better group of people than the ones I bump into at the clubs I have visited. The US has the friendliest welcoming group you could ever hope to meet. Really looking forward to this coming summer. |
Thats great to hear.
We require AMA but not club membership, if you don't join the club you don't have a key to the gate and its only open when a member is present but other than that we welcome and encourage guests and if you ever find yourself near Jacksonville we would love to have you hang out. |
Originally Posted by mongo
(Post 12407060)
Texas and a coupla other states, have it written into state law/state constitution that, a landowner can not be sued for allowing recreational use of his property.
so, here, the whole landowner requires it insurance scam is rather moot. |
Originally Posted by BarracudaHockey
(Post 12407133)
Thats great to hear.
We require AMA but not club membership, if you don't join the club you don't have a key to the gate and its only open when a member is present but other than that we welcome and encourage guests and if you ever find yourself near Jacksonville we would love to have you hang out. |
Originally Posted by Propworn
(Post 12407163)
The actual allowing of the recreational activity what ever it is may be protected but I would bet dollars to donuts it would not preclude the land owner to be held in some way responsible if it was suspected the participants were acting in an irresponsible or reckless manner under permission of the land owner to engage in that recreational activity. So now you have a private non AMA site with guys flying with disregard for a recognized CBO’s/AMA safety guidelines and someone, a spectator, child etc. sustains an injury. I bet a good law firm would have a field day with that.
so far, the aero/drone folks have not done anything stupid enough to get a trial case. at least in Texas. |
Just a matter of time....
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Originally Posted by mongo
(Post 12407223)
HASN'T BEEN TESTED WITH MODEL AIRCRAFT/DRONE USE, BUT IT HAS BEEN TRIED IN HUNTING, ATV, OFFROAD MOTORCYCLE, AND 4 WHEEL DRIVE APPLICATIONS, AND THE INDEMNITY PORTION WAS UPHELD FOR THE LANDOWNER,
so far, the aero/drone folks have not done anything stupid enough to get a trial case. at least in Texas. This is taken from the Limitation of Land Owners Liability for Texas: Sec. 75.002. LIABILITY LIMITED. (a) An owner, lessee, or occupant of agricultural land: (1) does not owe a duty of care to a trespasser on the land; and (2) is not liable for any injury to a trespasser on the land, except for wilful or wanton acts or gross negligence by the owner, lessee, or other occupant of agricultural land. Sec. 75.004. LIMITATION ON MONETARY DAMAGES FOR PRIVATE LANDOWNERS. (a) Subject to Subsection (b), the liability of an owner, lessee, or occupant of agricultural land used for recreational purposes for an act or omission by the owner, lessee, or occupant relating to the premises that results in damages to a person who has entered the premises is limited to a maximum amount of $500,000 for each person and $1 million for each single occurrence of bodily injury or death and $100,000 for each single occurrence for injury to or destruction of property. In the case of agricultural land, the total liability of an owner, lessee, or occupant for a single occurrence is limited to $1 million, and the liability also is subject to the limits for each single occurrence of bodily injury or death and each single occurrence for injury to or destruction of property stated in this subsection. As soon as any admission/fee is levied there may be a whole different set of circumstances. Nuff said not my concern anyway. |
Originally Posted by tailskid
(Post 12407254)
Just a matter of time....
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I have to be,.... in order to be in the club I want to be in. I have no problem with that,..... the club membership is very reasonable and it gives me a consistent, dedicated place to fly my planes. both membership are a small price to pay for the availability of a good place to fly, anytime I want. and there is usually always someone there flying on any weekend.
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Originally Posted by r ward
(Post 12416211)
I have to be,.... in order to be in the club I want to be in. I have no problem with that,..... the club membership is very reasonable and it gives me a consistent, dedicated place to fly my planes. both membership are a small price to pay for the availability of a good place to fly, anytime I want. and there is usually always someone there flying on any weekend.
It's ironic , this poll is my creation , it's been bumped to the top every so often , and I'm still myself "flip flopping" on whether I want to vote "want to" or "have to" . ;) guess I shoulda included a "both" option , huh ? |
thank-you for the "welcome" ! i'll bet that,...."honestly",..... most people who are members, take the same position as I do. I recently started back into the hobby after not building or flying since I was a teen-ager. I am so new as a matter of fact that I am currently waiting for better weather to get with the club's instructor for some lessons. i'll admit I am not going to take for granted I can fly after all these years !. when you consider what a grown man has to loose to some kind of law suite, the cost of membership isn't worth considering not paying. when a kid, I and a few friends and their dad had permission to fly on one of several sod farms in southern Wisconsin...... talk about acres and acres to fly on, good smooth landing strips and nothing around for miles! I now live where there are nothing but corn fields and woods, so "an actual flying field" is a necessity,... a rarity and a luxury.....so i'll jump through the hoops with a smile on my face !. these days you can't do much of anything without incurring some kind of costs anyways. yes, you could say it either way,...." I have to because I want to",...or...,"I want to because I have to" !. both are valid !.
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I'm a member of AMA because I want to be but not quite as much as I used to want to be. I joined AMA back in 1969 when it was a voluntary organization that promoted the advancement and safety of building and flying model airplanes (before someone felt a need to change it to "model AVIATION"). Back then, when almost every senator and congressman grew up in the Boy Scouts, not a single one of them would have considered legislating the hobby. However, during the half a century since, the model aviation hobby has become much more complex. Besides the gigantic advancements in technology (which has been a great thing!), we now have to face the horrible possibility that the improved technology can enable almost anyone to use a model as a terrorist weapon! Therefore, the AMA now has to protect the hobby from those who would like to legislate it out of existence.
Unfortunately, while I'm STILL a member (I guess old habits are hard to break), I'm not so sure that the AMA is still out to promote the hobby as much as it now seems more focused on promoting itself. For example, when was the last time an issue of Model Aviation didn't start out with "Look what we've done for you since last month"? Harvey |
Originally Posted by Propworn
(Post 12407163)
The actual allowing of the recreational activity what ever it is may be protected but I would bet dollars to donuts it would not preclude the land owner to be held in some way responsible if it was suspected the participants were acting in an irresponsible or reckless manner under permission of the land owner to engage in that recreational activity. So now you have a private non AMA site with guys flying with disregard for a recognized CBO’s/AMA safety guidelines and someone, a spectator, child etc. sustains an injury. I bet a good law firm would have a field day with that.
club member operate their models. |
the purpose of the AMA is to establish a governing body responsible for the generation of rules that allow insurance companies to establish blame in a liable claim. as white washed as it is with all the camaraderie and such,....that is all it is for. I guess we should be thankful it exists,....without it and it's rules insurance companies would spend much more on litigation of a claim and all that would do is make our flying even more expensive .
there,....you want the bottom line,....you got it. |
That maybe your view, but I see the purpose of establishing rules for competition events.....we do have 'events' don't we?
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you don't need Federally funded Mandates and Statutes with Federally mandated compliance by the individual to establish rules of competition for a hobby sporting event, ......do you ?.. .....but,...... .. insurance companies do need them to reduce and/or eliminate ambiguity in liability litigation. wake up.
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The AMA does a lot of things, establishing blame for liability isn't one of them.
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Originally Posted by tailskid
(Post 12428977)
That maybe your view, but I see the purpose of establishing rules for competition events.....we do have 'events' don't we?
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insurance, has long since overshadowed everything else.
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Originally Posted by BarracudaHockey
(Post 12429179)
The AMA does a lot of things, establishing blame for liability isn't one of them.
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