AMA
 

...another 58 bucks out the door....

Just renewed my AMA for the umpteenth time because I have to. I can't think
of the last time I, anyone I know, or any club I've been in has been helped in
any way by this group. I'm sure there are some out there someplace, but I've been in the hobby a
long time and don't personally know of a single one.

It's "only" 58 bucks to be sure, but it's starting to bug me now. It amounts to an expense for little tangible
benefit aside from a magazine I'd gladly trade for a subscription to MAN or R/C REPORT.

Kind of a forced subscription don't you think? And ad revenues are presumably generated
by MODEL AVIATION based on it's (captive) readership. "Readers" who aren't permitted to fly unless
they buy.

Before anyone reminds me of "all" the new frequencies we got in 1991...bear in mind we simply took the
same slice of RF spectrum and divided it into smaller slices....at the modelers expense. In fact, we lost ground on
that deal with the transfer of 75mhz frequencies to surface-use only models.

Perhaps it's the "Safety Code" that makes the difference? I do try my best not to fly my models on the final
approach path at Charlotte-Douglas Airport. <G>


Hmmmm......AMA. It used to be "tradition". Now it's just another unwelcome expense.

My $.02

'race

RE: AMA
 

You will get blasted about this one. Some will say "you don't have to join", others say "shut up and pay", but all in all, your right on the mark. Try flying in a contest without it. That isn't going to happen. They lost track of what they are there for a long time ago.

Bummer isn't it. Aren't monopolies fun.

RE: AMA
 

Oh well....let 'em blast away.

From my perspective...promoting model aviation has always been done most effectively at the
local level...by the local club, and ultimately the good individuals they are composed of.

AMA is invisible. Ask any school age kid who "AMA" is...and see the blank stares.

Ask an adult....I'd bet that you get an equal number of strange looks. Maybe a few people
would recognize it as the "American Medical Association", but anything to do with modeling?

No way.

What exactly IS being promoted with our money?

'Race

RE: AMA
 

The muncie flying site! [:-]

RE: AMA
 

I fly competitively and am thus very appreciative of the AMA. I pay $76 for a years subscription for Aviation Modeller International. Model Aviation is a pretty good mag in my estimation. My flying buddies (not organized) and I recently obtained permission to fly CL on a really nice paved municipal parking lot. If we had not been AMA members, and if AMA Headquarters had not supported us, we would have had no chance at permission.

My major complaint with the AMA is that, at the national level, it does a very poor job of promoting model aviation to the general public. I raise this point from time to time with AMA officials and get another letter to the editor about it published in Model Aviation. No avail, so far.

Jim

RE: AMA
 

Aaaaa...a topic on my heart's content!
Before I give THEM the money, I DEMAND to have the following info:

-explain to me "the land of the free" crap. Its gone...
-exact number of members that the AMA has (total annual revenue)
-exact number of PAID claims and the amount of $$$ surrendered by the AMA.
-pictures of the house, cars, boats, etc of the CEO, VP, and other big cats in the AMA.

Once I AM CONVINVED (not told by somebody) that is a good investment, I will give them money. As long as the field is on a PUBLIC field (not private), I will take whoever to court that will stop me from flying without an AMA card.
Just throw in some "mental handicap" excuse and the only thing that works for me is RC planes activity and some discrimination based on the exclusion factor and you will see that the AMA card is not required anymore! Been there/done it in Mesa AZ.
Only you can stop the extortion and harrassement.

RE: AMA
 

Race, a lot of people including myself are on the same page as you. I have appreciation for the AMA, however I feel the cost of dues far exceeds the benefits derived.

Remember the Sport Flyer’s Association? Just might be time for another such organization, along with a mass exodus from the AMA to make them wake up and do some major expense trimming.

RE: AMA
 

exactly why i am not a member! I fly in the middle of nowhere with a group of flying buds. Dont want/need AMA membership.

sean

RE: AMA
 

I pay my AMA dues for one reason, I have to to fly at our clubs field. Their flying site at Muncie means diddly squat to me, as do the NATs, and all the rest of that stuff. The mag is just about worth the price of postage, nothing in it that I'm ever interested in. They need some serious competition to wake 'em up a bit.

RE: AMA
 

There is a lot to be said about ama but which ONE. Better forget what I am thinking!

RE: AMA
 

Gee guys, for less than most civilized people spend in a year for underwear you get insurance to cover you if nothing else does, guest access to flying sites all over the nation, a magazine that I actually enjoy reading and some kind of voice in Washington when the frequency thieves are trying to expand cell phone coverage. What do you want for a nickel?

RE: AMA
 

Thats what has me intrigued. The AMA is supposed to be insurance for mishaps (which do happen) but actually I understand this is supplemental to your homeowners or renters and only covers you if you dont have the latter. If you own a home or even rent, you would be crazy not to have insurance to cover damages for fire, flood, locusts, armageddon, or whatever, so if you have a mishap and it goes to your homeowners or renters insurance, AMA doesnt have to pay?. Does this seem fishy to anyone else, or am I not enlightened? If I am not enlightened, please explain cause I am getting confused lol. OK, now I am off to build a rocket.

Warren

RE: AMA
 

*BURRRRP*

RE: AMA
 

The liability insurance that the AMA supplies is secondary on an individual basis. You have that part right.

What most people do not realize is that the clubs are also covered. Most clubs do not have other insurance, so it is primary.

The most important part is the coverage for the land owner. This part of the coverage is primary coverage, without the exclusions in the Safety Code. This includes municipal sites too.

Clubs pay $90-110 for the coverage for the club and the landlord. Try going out and buying two $2.5 million policies for that. The coverage is obviously subsidized by your dues.

In addition there is secondary medial coverage and secondary theft coverage.

Model Aviation Magazine acts as a newletter to the membership, which the IRS requires to keep the 501 (c) 3 non-profit educational status of the AMA.

Sanctioned events help clubs raise funds and offer free advertising for events in MA.

Try finding a field or a meeting place without the insurance the AMA offers for the land owner.

Consider that half of the claims the AMA pays are NOT flying related, but, are trip and fall type claims.

JR

RE: AMA
 

now what does the American Medical Association have to do with r/c?:D:D

seriously though, i'm glad that over here we don't have that crap. each club has its own insurance and its own set of rules regarding safety and other stuff. besides that there are tons of "informal" flying spots that don't belong to anyone and don't require any membership...people just come to have a good time and and seem to get along without all the rules and regs


dave

RE: AMA
 

Unfortunately, in the US, we can't do that because there is a lawyer on just about every corner just foaming at the mouth to sue someone if they look at someone else wrong. Most other countries don't have that problem.

We had a guy fall out of the ski lift because the chair broke and all I heard for weeks was how greatfull they were that it was someone from germany so they wouldn't get sued.

Its a sick world sometimes.

RE: AMA
 

The vast majority of us are just subsidizing the costs for the few who participate in competition. Muncie is a money pit that few of us will ever visit. The AMA tries to justify it by saying that a lobbying body needs an impressive facility in order to impress influential people, yet I've never seen a picture of a group of Congressmen touring Muncie--and you can bet that it'd be on the cover of the magazine if it happened.

I'd much rather see an organization that makes competitors pay their own share, has a sliding fee scale for the insurance (that guy doing indoor FF isn't in the same risk category as the 50lbs scale B-29 at an airshow, now is he?), and that uses more reasonable office space than they do now. Lobbying should be done by the industry groups. If they were truly interested in cutting costs, the first thing they'd do is change the magazine over to an electronic format. They've already got that in place.

Do I have any loyalty or appreciation of the AMA? Nope. The moment there's a viable alternative I'm jumping ship. They've been a complacent, self-serving organization for too long. The few times I've contacted my district VP haven't done anything but solidify that opinion. Instead of being interested in what a member had to say he was dismissive and defensive--that's leadership, eh?

RE: AMA
 

MikeL

Somewhere around $3-5 of your dues goes toward Muncie. The HQ has to be somewhere, as does, in my opinion the Museum. I am not overly fond of the idea of a site in Muncie, but, it is not a big drain through dues. Dave Brown claims it was purchased as a repository for the cash the AMA must maintain because of the insurance requirements for reserves.

Keep in mind that the AMA is not an insurance company. It CAN NOT charge different amounts to different people because of that fact. The AMA insurance is more along the lines of a group policy like empoyers buy. It is something you get as a condition of membership in the AMA. To be an insurance company would require licenses in all 50 states plus any territiories where it operates. Something that will create considerable expense.

The reason that most folks are members of the AMA is that clubs require membership. The reason that clubs require membership is the insurance, and not just the individual variety, but the land owners coveage, without which, either the club membership would be substantially higher, or the club would not have a place to fly.

It is possible that the insurance has become enough of a risk for mainstream insurance companies, that the AMA may have to self-insure. If this happens, a captive insurance company has been formed, but not funded. If it becomes necessary to fund it, you can look for a large dues increase to cover the expense. The amount of dollars in Munce will make it possible to get re-insurance and act as the required reserve. It is not all as simple as it appears to be looking from the outside in.

What was the nature of your contact with your VP? Were you aggressive or did you contact him with an open mind? I have seen several e-mails posted on RCU that open with lines like "You should resign". That does not propogate very good communications.

JR

RE: AMA
 

JR, just curious, do you have any idea how much was paid out per year in claims the last say, 5 or 10 years?

Also, is there about 185,000 members?

Thanks.

RE: AMA
 

Flyboy

The claims paid out will never be known to the membership. The first thing an attorney does it get a non-disclosure agreement that forbids the desimination of the details, including the amount of settlement. You can thank the legal profession for that.

In 2003, the AMA had about 175000 memebers, about 25000 of whom were juniors (memberships that the rest of us subsidize. Costs them a buck).

JR

RE: AMA
 

I can give one example to put things in perspective.

A father had his toddler at the flight line. There was a "parking lot stop" (cement thing) being held in place with rebar. The father had the child in a chair and told him to be still. Of course, the toddler did not. He fell from the chair impailing himself on the rebar. The club and landlord were sued for neglience. The rebar had been sticking up for three years.

The end result was a settlement of just under $1 million and a rule prohibiting anyone under 6 on the flightline unless they are flying.

Most of us do not think it terms of non-flying accidents, but that is where most of the big claims are.

How would you have liked to have been a member of that club with no liaibility insurance?

JR

RE: AMA
 

We RCer's are a strange lot. Why do so many ***** and moan abot the $58 for AMA. Look at all the organizations and memerships that soak people for over $50 that don't amount to anything. I have the belong to a professional organization for my job that soaks me $200.00 a year and all they do is meet in some hotel once a year and have a big dinner.

Why don't people complain about the IMAA? What do you get for that membership???? The right to be included in the 80" club?

I also belong to NAR and IPMS. I never hear any complaints from the members of these organizations. NAR is $75 a year for their insurance.

Many obviously belong to AMA just for the association. Look at all the indoor rubber flyers that the mag shows. Why would they really need insurance? I know, those little props can put an eye out or some lady could be traumatized for life after being struck by a plane weighing 8 oz. and traveling a .8 mph.:)

RE: AMA
 

scottrc

Believe it or not, the indoor guys have their share of accidents. Wanna crawl around in the rafters with a pole trying to retrieve your plane? You would not be the first to fall.

Edited to add: the land owner for that hanger wants insurance too

RE: AMA
 

Hmmmm.... I've got three daughters... Maybe I should've invested my AMA money on boxer shorts? :)

RE: AMA
 

Why is it that in these threads bashing the AMA that keep popping up, people always say they are just waiting for a viable alternative (Pete 913, SDRhammer, MikeL, etc), but none of them go out and create the alternative? It seems that if the AMA is so unpopular this would be an easy business to get going.