What is a guy supposed to do??
 

Hi fellas. At our flying field here in Hays, KS, we are not AMA Sanctioned. There are several older guys here that started the field back in the early '60s. I had gotten some rules off of RCU and I customized them to fit our field, but they aren't going for them. The President says that they want to keep the rules to a bear minimum. I think the only rule that we have is to avoid flying over the pits and do all aerobatics away from the pits. Another rule they have is to not stand in the middle of the field. However, they fly over everybody's heads, do aerobatics right over the vehicles, and they do stand out in the middle of the field. Just a few days ago, Dell, who is one of the members that started the Club, was doing aerobatics and almost hit a guy. That same afternoon, he put a piper cub into a spin and came awefully close to my friend's Dodge Durango.

I wish there were other possibilites for flying places, but there just aren't any. The landscape here is either very hilly or it's all farmland.

Do you guys have any ideas on how to persuade these guys into using the new rules. Right now, I hate to go out there. From now on, when those guys come out, I am going to land and leave. I hate flying in fear! It seems that every day, those old guys are always tearing something up or always crashing. Heck, I bought Jim, who used to be on frequency #59, which is the same as me, new crystals on a differnet frequency that nobody else had. In exchange, I got his crystals. I can't figure this out, he had an AM TX crystal, and a FM RX crystal, and they worked!! These other pilots are wreckless and irresponsible.

If you guys have any other suggestions, I would absolutely love to hear them. Thanks.
Clint

RE: What is a guy supposed to do??
 

Who owns the site?

RE: What is a guy supposed to do??
 

thankfully, not me<G>

RE: What is a guy supposed to do??
 

That's easy, find the get the president to enforce the rules add punishments....loss of flying privledges for two weeks, even fines if necessary. If your president won't agree to help, warn him of the dangers of the loss of your field because of the reckless behavior. But remember, if you go at it too hard, you may end up losing the field by yourself....Good luck, Andrew

RE: What is a guy supposed to do??
 

A farmer owns the flying field. We just pay our $10.00 a year and the Treasurer and the President buy the farmer and his wife two large fruit baskets for Christmas. He's letting us do this for free. They've almost lost the site several times now.

Now the farmer doesn't want us to fly during Harvest in the summer because they've lost a few planes out there in the wheat fields. I have to respect the farmer's decision, because they are careless and use defective gear and stuff and I know that farmers don't make much money and they can't afford to lose hundreds of dollars on sales due to someone else's stupidity.

I did talk to the President, but he just kinda blew it off and said that they're fine and accidents always happen and you can't control where you crash. A dumb execuse like that will kill someone eventually. Just read a few forums down, a helicopter killed a spectator it sounds like. TRUE accidents happen all the time, but there's no execuse for not wanting to do something to prevent something like that. I just don't know what to do. Any other help will be quite useful. I can't wait to get out of Hays and to a good AMA Sactioned field!! My gosh, that must be nice! Nice rules, respectable people, wonderful friends. That's the way to go! Everytime I see the guys at my field, I quiver with fear!! Thanks all.
Clint

RE: What is a guy supposed to do??
 

I mentioned that there should be punishments and stuff to him, but I'm not an "officer" or anything. To tell you the truth, I'm only 18 years old and so to these guys I'm just a "kid" I guess. I don't know what their thinking is, but he just brushed it off his shoulders and said, and I quote::

"You cannnot control where you crash." Yeah, that's true and stuff, but you can control where you fly and you can avoid almost killing someone. My gosh, they set up their own dang rules about not flying over the pits and over people's heads, but ol' Dell was doing a loop or some dumb maneuver and almost hit Jimbo straight on. Jimbos a bit of an ass, but still, I'd hate to see anyone get hurt or killed out there. They refuse to accept responsibility for their actions and mistakes.

If you guys have any other ideas, please let me know. I'm tired of this crap. I think they outa put someone else in position. I think they've had it since the 60s. Thanks all.
Clint

RE: What is a guy supposed to do??
 

One of the benefits of an AMA chartered club is that a $2.5 million primary liability policy is available for the landlord. The club charter and landlord insurance cost the club about $100 a year. I wonder if the landlord is aware of that?

I would mention it to him in passing, but, not try to sell him. You don't want the other guys to think your going around them or you may be looking for another place to fly sooner than you think.

RE: What is a guy supposed to do??
 

Extra_230, They are OK in their own way, you are OK in your way, and you will NOT be able to change their flying habits. I think you should find another flying site and start a new Club with all the AMA rules posted and observed. Then everybody will be happy. Perhaps some of them will join the new Club and become rule oriented. I understand your point of trying to make that field a safe field, but if they don`t want to change, you can not force them, it`s easier to move on and start a new site. And you have got to be kidding when you say you can`t find another field in KANSAS !!!

RE: What is a guy supposed to do??
 

Clint - is there any space out in your industrial park that could be turned into a flying site? I know it's fairly close to your airport but it may be worth looking into.

Start your own club, and enforce the basic rules of safety!

Good luck.

RE: What is a guy supposed to do??
 

What park are you talking about Dennis? I live a walking distance from Sunrise Park near Roosevelt Elementary School, but I tried to fly there with a trainer and it gets awefully small VERY quick. When I was first learning to fly, I tried that park and I ran into the top of the ball diamond thing. It was not cool.

There are other fields out of town, but none of them are as nice as that one that we currently have. I understand that I can't change them. I guess I'll have to look at the bright side and think tha I'm going to outlive all of those people and everything will be safe like it's supposed to be.

Hey Dennis, what about the Hays municipal airport? Would they allow me to fly airplanes over there? Thanks all.
Clint

RE: What is a guy supposed to do??
 

The industrial park is on the Southeast side of town right by the airport. AMA sez we aren't supposed to fly within 3 miles of an airport (I think) so it may be too close.

Any room at Ft. Hays State to fly? [8D]

I know a few folks in Hays, I'll see if they have any ideas.

RE: What is a guy supposed to do??
 

Extra230: The "Good 'ole Boy" club you describe scares me, but I've seen/been to similar clubs. I'd get out. It is just a matter of time before someone gets seriously injured and then the cow chips will hit the fan as everyone will be sued including the farmer for letting such activity happen on his land.

You could go after the farmer and inform him about the risk as a landowner. If the land owner was worried, that would force the club to change. But I don't know if the backlash from the 'ole Boys in the club would be worth the effort.

Best bet is to find/start another club or at least secure your own safe site. I have some flying buddies in Great Bend if I remember correctly. I know that is probably 40 miles from Hays, but it might be worth checking out where the GB folk fly. I know some clubs that do use airports. Typically this is in smaller towns where there is basically no "real" plane traffic. You will need to get something in writing from the airport authority and it never hurts to ask. Also look for land in industrial parks, or maybe even a sod farm or private crop duster airport. Locate the owner and ask for permission to fly. Be sure to explain you are insured and get everything in writing. I wish you goodluck.

PS, you can fly close to airports, but you must stay below a certain altitude. It's all in the AMA regs, don't rememebr exactly where, but just look, it is in there.

RE: What is a guy supposed to do??
 

But I'm not insured. How much would AMA insurance cost me? I'm a little familiar with AMA's rules and regulations, but not the costs. I can't afford $100 on my own. Let me know. Thanks so much for the help and support. I will look for other good flying fields. I know someone is about to get hurt. Those guys keep getting closer and closer every time they go out. I know Jerry doesn't go out very often because of them. He always waits until summer and goes out in the cool morning and flys and come 10:30 or so, the olders guys start coming and he lands and packs up and goes home. I think I'll start doing that, too. He's been telling me to do that for so many times. I am going to do that. I don't want my Dad or I to get hurt. One time old Sharman was coming in for a landing and he was on his final and that nut just about gave me a haircut!! That plane wasn't 2 feet away from my head. I didn't see the plane coming because I was flying one of my planes and it just snuck up on me. I'm never going to fly with them anymore.

I think I will start my own field, but I do need more info on the AMA standards and costs. Thanks everyone, again.
Clint

RE: What is a guy supposed to do??
 

If your birthday is after 7/1/04 an AMA membeship is $1 for the year. If you will be 19 before 7/1 it's $58.
The application is here:
http://www.modelaircraft.org/templat...-files/902.pdf

The AMA web site is here:
http://www.modelaircraft.org/templates/ama/

AMA insurance is good anywhere it is legal to fly... including at the club you are at now... as long as YOU comply with the Safety Code.

RE: What is a guy supposed to do??
 

Hmmm... Sounds like you need to invest in a baseball helmet. ;) Seriously though, keep it next to you. Then everytime they start flying, look at them, then put it on. Just an idea for protecting yourself, as goofy as it sounds.

RE: What is a guy supposed to do??
 

Actualy, I thing a construction worker's hard hat is cheaper and better protection than a baseball helmet. Go to the local Lowes and I think its about $6. It would also be more obvious that you are showing you think something is unsafe.

Basic common sense safety guidelines... I think I can find a copy of the 1980 (or close) AMA safety code. Its not as ull of leagalees stuff as the current one. (but the weight limit was 28 pounds then and waivers were essentially unheard of.) The rules at that time were OBVIOUSLY of the basic "don't be stupid" nature.

And someone who says you can't control where they crash... tell him.. "If its not over your head when you lose it... its less likely to hit you. If its not over your car, its not as likely to hit it either." The Safety code rule of having a line, one side has the people the other has the flying airfraft is one of the most important ways to prevent killing someone, and an injury-accident due to purposefully overflying people is bordering on criminal negligence.

You don't need to adopt the full AMA Safety code at a non-AMa field... but there is no excuse for being stupid on purpose. The life you save could be your own.

Send a copy of this to that Club President and have him e-mail me.

RE: What is a guy supposed to do??
 

Fred's comments are a good model but still leave you presenting something they have already told you they are not interested in hearing or acting on.

I think the construction helmet worn at the field might do what you want. Think about it, when seen folks wonder why. Sooner or later they will come to the correct conclusion and you will have lead them to a safer method of doing business with no grief. If they are too stupid to figure it out, they are too stupid but you will have some protection.

RE: What is a guy supposed to do??
 

I don't know what good the helmut would do. I mean, physically speaking, a spinning prop is like a top. It's gonna spin somewhere due to the twisting forces. It could fly downards and cut my throat, or slide upwards, but then the plane would fall and get me in the back someplace.

I do see the point that it'd make. These guys are old Germans and are very stubbourn. I will give it a shot, apply for AMA since it's only a buck and look for a new field.

Now, just by paying the $1.00, I get 2.5 million dollars in insurance??????? I won't turn 19 until December 23, 2004. Thanks.
Clint

RE: What is a guy supposed to do??
 

Also, how much are premiums each month? Thanks.
Clint

RE: What is a guy supposed to do??
 

Clint

It is $1 for the year. That's it. Take a look at the AMA page; look through documents like the membership manual and the club renewal kit. They both have information you need to know and understand in order be able to talk about the AMA in a knowledgable way.

http://www.modelaircraft.org/templates/ama/

JR

RE: What is a guy supposed to do??
 

But how does $1.00 get me 2.5 million dollars in insurance? Is AMA a scam? Please advise. you know more about this than I do.

I went out to look at more possible fields, and I came across one, and that one isn't very good. Thanks.
Clint

RE: What is a guy supposed to do??
 

The adult membership subsidizes the juniors. The insurance is "excess" which means IF you have other insurance it comes first. Assuming you, because of your age, have no other insurance, it will be primary for you. It's not a scam. Hopefully, you will be a member for a long time to come. Then it will be your turn to help out the juniors with a little higher dues than you would pay if it were not for them.

RE: What is a guy supposed to do??
 

I see. So, if I pay the $1.00, what does that get me?

And then after I turn into an "adult" according to AMA, how much does the insurance cost and what does that get me? Anything different from the $1.00 insurance? How come there aren't any premiums? Thanks.
Clint

RE: What is a guy supposed to do??
 

it costs you $1.00 now, and $58.00 a year after you turn 19. This membership gets you a magazine, access to competitions/fly-ins/guesting privelege everywhere in the U.S.
As a benefit of membership, a libility insurance policy is included with your membership.

RE: What is a guy supposed to do??
 

Actually, to get the magazine with the youth membership costs an additional $14.

While the Insurance thing sounds good, have you ever heard of anyone under 21 being held responsible for civil court actions?

Don't confuse the civil court with the criminal court system.