RE: Update: AMA Safety and Accident Prevention Program
 

Wonder how this one did at the last EC meeting. Think the 'driver' will get his ideas adopted?

RE: Update: AMA Safety and Accident Prevention Program
 

Just got off the phone with someone that was there.
a sub-committee report was not available.
a list of all recommendations will be presented to the EC.
Oberdieck got a go ahead to start working on a Safety/training video/CD with a committee.
S/L was desolved
my contact said there was a lot of positive reaction.

RE: Update: AMA Safety and Accident Prevention Program
 

"Oberdieck got a go ahead to start working on a Safety/training video/CD with a committee."

I think that is a good place to start, but I wonder about distribution. Is the resultant media going to be on request, required viewing for clubs and/or club officers, for all members, or what. Not detracting just questioning the direction "we" are being driven [:>)].

The next issue is the absence of any regular column about safety in MA. How can we possibly claim to be interested in safety and ignore the most pervasive and penetrating communications media available to the organization? I asked Vince Manakowski (sp?) that when the Safety First column was dropped in the early 1990's. Sure seems to some that the AMA is practicing applied hypocrisy with new ideas about the importance of the subject and potential requirements while stopping the only continuous mention of safety in our regular publication.

We don't need a safety column exhorting all of us to always be safe, rather we need a column that tells of others errors and the resultant damage, including (very unfortunatly) the carnage. A good place to get those ideas might be club news letter editors. We could offer them a free year's membership if a full page article of theirs gets published. With 2400+or - clubs, I am sure we can get 12 articles a year that mean something to the members without being too esoteric.

That is my opinion.

RE: Update: AMA Safety and Accident Prevention Program
 

JB, supposedly when finished it will be distributed to all AMA chartered clubs free of charge. Seems to me this might be a step in the right direction and well overdue. Only the tip of the iceberg I suspect. Certainly will be interesting to see how this plays out.

RE: Update: AMA Safety and Accident Prevention Program
 

In the past, Dave Brown has stated that only 50% of the AMA membership are members of chartered clubs. If that is the case, it might be wise to have a much broader distribution. In my opinion, this is a good idea if done correctly and, possibly, it should be sent to every member. I realize that might run to well in excess of $100,000 due to the necessary postage, but, if we can save people getting hurt, with education, it's cheap.

RE: Update: AMA Safety and Accident Prevention Program
 

So the S&L committee chairman goes off off chasing a wild hare on a topic completely tangential to the charge of his committee (which had no report on what they were doing/had done), and the response is "a lot of positive reaction" with a go-ahead to pursue whatever he damned well pleases while the S&L committee is dissolved as apparently it has no purpose that anyone can remember, if it ever did have purpose. Business as usual.
Am I the only one that perceives a desperate need for leadership in AMA?

Abel

RE: Update: AMA Safety and Accident Prevention Program
 

While I agree, we need to do this, the other open channel remains unused. We pay dues to support MA and I would expect safety to be a major issue there, but it is not. I guess we pay dues only to have them thrown away by those who are sure the money no longer belongs to modelers. To paraphrase Able, fine leadership...

RE: Update: AMA Safety and Accident Prevention Program
 

maybe i have more common sense than most but i don't need the AMA to tell me not to stick my finger in a rotating prop!! also not needed is advice on low level high speed passes over the pits/stands. my dad taught me those things, well the 1/2a props taught me the first one, and anyway if more people are taught good safety rules then maybe some of these "accidents" won't happen at all.

RE: Update: AMA Safety and Accident Prevention Program
 

Wellll... I think you are right, but the video/digital stuff MIGHT be a way to get the new entrants (especially those without parents with common sense) a heads up that they have never thought about. Hand tach's are very common and it is impossible for AMA to outlaw them, because we ALL make mistakes.

That being said, I step over to the other side of the fence, metaphorically. (G)

It never ceases to amaze me the number of GROWN men I have seen start up an unrestrained airplane! Until they have done that once, many never learn. It never ceases to amaze me how many grown men cannot walk and chew gum, or taxi in the pits as it were. Even after they have stumbled and gone to full throttle a time or so, some are incapable of learning the necessary lessons. I am not unwilling to let the AMA give a shot at educating them, as long as I don't have to pay for it through more paperwork and extra steps - I get that enough elsewhere.

RE: Update: AMA Safety and Accident Prevention Program
 

I suppose by your statement you are willing to let the "AMA" give a shot at educating "them" but just how without more paperwork and extra steps?

In my opinion it is all of our duty to educate and help those that are in need of such. Isn't that the true intent of the "AMA"?

RE: Update: AMA Safety and Accident Prevention Program
 

Whatever you say.

RE: Update: AMA Safety and Accident Prevention Program
 

thanks

RE: Update: AMA Safety and Accident Prevention Program
 

Whats wrong with someone finally trying to do something like bringing some attention to others and the error of their ways.
If a safety video, revised safety code and some sort of training would result in less injury, wouldn't it be worth it.
We're supposed to be enjoying the hobby and having fun. Not spending time in the emergency room getting stitched up.

RE: Update: AMA Safety and Accident Prevention Program
 

excaliber

The first line of your post is unclear as to who you are referencing... the posters in this thread, or others.

The second line is rather all inclusive, and while I agree with some concepts I disagree with others. You're not clear or precise in how much area you are covering with the sentence. If, on the one hand, it is to educate the membership, I am for it. If on the other hand, you want to mandate safety cops, that is another issue. I would even go so far as to agree that CD's are already charged with safety as their main responsibility, and I have no disagreement with that, since they are, in fact, agents of the AMA. However, any effort to force clubs to keep/file/submit records of each and every accident (what ever the definition might be) is doomed to failure. In addition, since such efforts will affect only half of the membership, it will be ineffective.

This is also the first time that a revised Safety Code has been mentioned. While most of us believe the Safety Code needs revision, your suggestion is much too broad and undefined to garner support for the concept.

The devil is in the details. Post 'em up, or don't look for much support.

Yes, we all want to fly, and we do not want to spend time in the emergency room... we also do not want to spend time record keeping... record keeping is right there with the emergency room, IMHO.

RE: Update: AMA Safety and Accident Prevention Program
 

J-R. The referrence was made in error,the someone, should have been the committee as I percieve the committee as a whole made the recommendations.
I believe it was not the intent to mandate any cops, I didn't read that in the report. I also think the record keeping would be the function of the AMA staff not the clubs which would only submit the information. I also didn't read "forcing" any club to keep any records. I'm not looking for support, just offering an opinion.
That is how I read the report.

RE: Update: AMA Safety and Accident Prevention Program
 

Why don't you post the report so we can all see it?

RE: Update: AMA Safety and Accident Prevention Program
 

I second the motion! Then we'll all be talking about the same thing.

RE: Update: AMA Safety and Accident Prevention Program
 

J-R post 1 thats what I read and you started the thread.

RE: Update: AMA Safety and Accident Prevention Program
 

So, from one report, by a guy doing a CYA while chastizing someone for letting the cat out of the bag by posting the actual committe report, and without actually knowing what was in that report, and totally ignoring post #11, which is the safety committe's endorsement by the EC to establish Safety Gestapo ----er--officers and Field Marshals (AMA's title, not mine--Sounds awfull Reich-like, somehow), you garner that nothing nefarious is intended.
Despite the statement " 6) Proper investigations of all accidents with the who, what, when, where and why with proper record being kept for future evaluation. " statement (without the explanation of what an "accident" is), and despite "Rule 9" and the turbine fiasco, you assume that the guy merely wants what is best for us?
and that item 6 is where JR got the bit "Yes, we all want to fly, and we do not want to spend time in the emergency room... we also do not want to spend time record keeping... record keeping is right there with the emergency room, IMHO."

Roger
"The Meek shall inherit the Earth. The rest of us are going to the Stars" Robert A Heinlein

RE: Update: AMA Safety and Accident Prevention Program
 

Roger,
I don't think the Rule #9 and turbine issues touch this one, but I could be wrong.

Excaliber,
There is NOTHING wrong with someone bringing safe activities to our attention. However, there is a SIGNIFICANT difference in bringing something to our attention and forcing it and extra work about it down our throats which is implied with #6 in post 1. THAT is what many have problems with.

RE: Update: AMA Safety and Accident Prevention Program
 

It's all part of the same thing.
"Daddy knows best" and keeping the members out of the loop. That was my point--despite all the recycled alfalfa that the EC and Safety Committee have thrown at us in the past couple of years, some folks think that they are looking out for our best interests...and not their personal businesses....

RE: Update: AMA Safety and Accident Prevention Program
 

For years I have been told that Mommy AMA would or would not allow certain behaviors in model aviation just to protect me. Now you go and say "Daddy knows best".

Bad attitude # 3

'Daddy' knew best when he bought Muncie, IMS, and whatever neat and new monument under consideration (I have heard of several different ones, most old but a few new).

RE: Update: AMA Safety and Accident Prevention Program
 

excaliber

In reviewing this thread and the other that I referenced in the first post in this thread ( http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/fb.a...741&tostyle=tm ) a couple of things come to mind.

An AMA CD is an acknowledged agent for the AMA. The first responsibility of a CD is safety. I have absolutely no problem with the AMA mandating actions to be taken by a CD. If the mandates are not of a nature that a CD is willing to accept, he has the option not to sanction an event. The CD program may be out of control, and if it is, it needs to be repaired. I view this as the initial responsibility of the now defunct Sanctions and Liabilities Committee.

On the other hand, a safety officer, or field marshal, or event director or whatever name you choose to give to a club appointed/elected person, is not an agent for the AMA. I have not been able to see any effort to make the safety officer an agent of the AMA. The CD has protection from liability claims specifically included with his title. The safety officer does not. An AMA chartered club agrees to enforce the Safety Code. It now appears that there is a move to have the safety officer be the embodiment of that pledge, without the protection afforded the CD.

Just as a club can not require a CD to sanction an event, I do not believe a club can require a safety officer to accept the responsibilities of enforcing the Safety Code, and the much broader requirement of assuring the safety of the club, it’s members, and it’s site.

The assumption has always been that most AMA members are endowed with some common sense. Common sense can not be mandated. If some effort to force clubs to adhere to a safety program is made, it will fail, in my opinion. Some clubs will comply, others will not. Safety Officers will interpret requirements as they see fit, regardless of training. If, on the other hand, the safety officer is to be someone whose prime responsibility is to educate others, there is some chance for improvement in the risk assumed by the clubs and, ultimately, by the AMA.

I see some excellent suggestions in the documents, and I see some pitfalls. To try to extend the requirements for a CD to a club safety officer is a huge leap.

RE: Update: AMA Safety and Accident Prevention Program
 

guinn, where did you read,hear or see an endorsement from the EC regarding the Safety Officer or Field Marshall write ups. I did not see anything in the council minutes. seems you are able to perceive things that aren't there.
Jumping to concusions are we??????
I read, or think I do, the same reports that are printed on this forum which I think are factual. But I'll be darned if Isee the conclusions that some of the posters come up with.
My question is "if the EC endorsed something like what you say. would it not take a motion, support and vote to accept. And if so would in not be part of an official record."?

RE: Update: AMA Safety and Accident Prevention Program
 

excaliber

I know it has been a while since you were a contributing member of this forum, so I am sure everyone will cut you some slack.

If you can go back and look through the minutes and find where the EC, in any way, voted to approve the infamous rule number 9 and include it in this year’s Safety Code, you are a better person than I am at reading. Dave Brown has stated, as recently as a couple of months ago, in his column, that the EC approved that Safety Code change, yet it is nowhere to be found in the minutes. Now you ask, essentially, the same question, and I paraphrase “Wouldn’t there be some record?”.

At the same time, it is possible that the Safety Officer document is totally unrelated to “Appendix III”. It would be nice to know who posted the document and why the document was placed on the AMA site on almost the same date as “Appendix III” was presented to the EC. When coincidences like this take place it is not difficult for anyone to draw conclusions that may or may not be correct.