RE: What is the biggest issue for the future of RC Model Aviation
 

Right On! Our field has only a few youngsters. (20 and younger) I really don't know how many members we have that are 30 and younger. Do they count? But we do have alot that are 30-?? (not telling)...HA!HA! A few fly from barstools--No really, barstools. And then there's me--Which plane is mine, again?:)

Okay, all joking aside, we need to get the youth involved. I am not sure what avenue needs to be persued for this to happen. But, there is the possibility of presenting aviation to a science class--Lift, Drag, Thrust, Gravity-. My children have children, would I be allowed in school?

RE: What is the biggest issue for the future of RC Model Aviation
 

Getting youth involved strikes a chord with me. Expense isn't a significant issue - I've signed up several kids (non-familial, rather those of friends and associates) for a buck per head. AMA puts forth a sincere effort in this regard; the education program folks at AMA are among the most inspired and motivated people I have met. It doesn't seem to be working. Any ideas on what is missing?

Abel

RE: What is the biggest issue for the future of RC Model Aviation
 

Abel,
US and OUR involvement. I admit it. But, I don't know how, where to start. Schools, Scouts (Boy and Girl), demos, playdays, TAG as the AMA calls it. Where? Maybe, just start at one and work to them all?
Mean Monte

RE: What is the biggest issue for the future of RC Model Aviation
 

abel:
surprised yer missing this one.

they don't teach regular "subjects" in school any more. they teach test taking and passing. so to get into the education system, we have to get our info included in the skills assessment test they are always administering to the kids. i think it really is that simple. just going to be danged hard to get the test folks to see what we want.

RE: What is the biggest issue for the future of RC Model Aviation
 

This one's easy. Newton's theory. Gravity took over--OUCH! Why not teach a class in basic aerodynamics in the scouting program or relative science classes? Is there a way to get a foot in the door? I remember when I was a kid (I do too!) any ol' Joe Blow could come to class and do a show and tell, type thing, on his/her profession. Mostly law enfocement and firefighters. Hmmm...But then again, a few wrench turners, model rocket guys and C/L guys. So, there is hope?

RE: What is the biggest issue for the future of RC Model Aviation
 

sorry dude, if it aint one of the test questions, it WILL NOT get taught in the school.

RE: What is the biggest issue for the future of RC Model Aviation
 

Good Points Mongo. At risk of being off topic, however the education of youngsters can be a part of any future issue, so here goes.
Over the past dozen years, I have looked over the books, and talked with my grandkids about their schools. Mongo you are 101% correct. Those tests are everything.

Just over the past holidays, I was at a social time at a good friend's home. I had the opportunity of speaking with a daughter that is now in her second year of teaching, IIRC, in Jr. High. Whle she loved the job she was rather upset about the one item: TEACH the TEST. Nothing else.

That goes against the grain of modeling where ingenuity and individual thinking are very important. Educators become just instructors. Students are like a computer in that they know many facts, but thinking outside the box is not natural to them.

AMA's main issue may well be out of AMA's box to control. [:-]

edited: Correct structure.

RE: What is the biggest issue for the future of RC Model Aviation
 

I remember Algebra and Geometry... I hated them. I couldn't figure out why I needed to learn this stuff; after all, I'm going to get in to computers. Why do I need all this math?

Guess what? Among other things, I'm writing 3D Flight Simulation software. I had to teach myself trig, vectors, and some calculus in order to write the physics routines to keep my simulated aircraft in the air.

If I'd paid better attention in math, I probably could have built my physics model in half the time.

My point? By connecting things like math and science to something fun, (omg! the F word!!) you can actually inspire students to learn more than if you just present abstract concepts.

For example, when studying geometry, it would have been interesting to use vectors and the Pythagorean Theorem to demonstrate that every aircraft, regardless of size or configuration, pulls 2G's at a 60º bank. Likewise, some simple geometry lessons can illustrate other concepts in aviation, navigation, and other aspects of everyday life.

Bare math is boring. APPLIED math is incredibly interesting!

RE: What is the biggest issue for the future of RC Model Aviation
 

Coming from a child himself, teaching in school will help but you have to take part in the many thing us modelers call safe and others not. It is very scary to have such an expensive and time consuming object in your hand and around you not to mention the many other dangers (I could go on and on with all the warning labels and how I felt about them when I started). It takes a lot of thinking to manage too. I’m still learning modeling like all of you but you don’t always have to continue learning everything you need to know on other topics. And lastly, kids want to go out, get girls, and have fun. Although I have a blast flying, I’m in love with aviation and other think it is dull and stupid. That is why all the younger kids aren’t starting and I know their many other reasons but here is what I thought and I could still go on.

hope this helps

RE: What is the biggest issue for the future of RC Model Aviation
 

Nay, not so. :D Another myth that has a function only in one spot, one situation, and somehow becomes an all-cases-truth among masses, very much like all these factors concerning the future of AMA. ;)

BTW, Tom that myth applies in the one spot/situation of performing a level altitude continuous 60° bank turn. G force is a function of load factor applied to the lifting surface, and bank angle only determines the rate of change about the lateral axis when a load is applied/removed from that lifting surface. Aerobatic pilots bust this myth all the time. :D
Haven't you ever performed a zero G roll? Every so-called "stall" turn goes to zero airspeed prior to reversing the climb into a dive, yet by true definition of "stall" the machine never stalls.
Way off topic so better shut-up here before the topic-cop writes me another ticket. :D I do love this kind of discussion.

RE: What is the biggest issue for the future of RC Model Aviation
 

Way to derail a conversation. :p Doesn't the "one case" account for 99%+ of airplane flights out there? It's no "myth", but a fact that holds true for a specific siutation, regardless of the size or shape of the airplane.

My point was that it's very easy to demonstrate this with 10'th grade math. Back when I was a sophomore in high school, I couldn't care less about geometry, but some real-life demonstrations like this might have given me a reason to study the boring stuff.

Incidentally, there's a bit of the pot calling the kettle black, here: As long as the wing is actually holding the plane up, the math holds true at any constant vertical speed, not just in level flight.

RE: What is the biggest issue for the future of RC Model Aviation
 

So... if a an airplane makes a 60 degree banked turn while on a treadmill...:D

RE: What is the biggest issue for the future of RC Model Aviation
 

Ok guys, let's stop this right here. This isn't the proper forum to discuss aerodynamic theory. Please keep the discussion on the thread topic.

Ken

RE: What is the biggest issue for the future of RC Model Aviation
 

other think it is dull and stupid

This is the critical issue. No matter how hard you try, you'll never "convert" people who are simply not interested. Honestly, I don't think there's much to be done about that. So the question becomes how do we enable those who are interested?

I mentioned some of the roadblocks: FOG's in the clubs. Joining a club can be tough (one club in the area has a 4 week delay in joining.) Joining the AMA is easy enough, but at $60, some people wonder "why should I bother?" A local hobby shop owner, who also flies, basically said "chuck it" and only flies park fliers now.

Really, getting started is the hardest part. Some people just don't know where to go to get off the ground, so to speak.

So what can we do to enable those people who might be interested - if only they knew where to start?

Now on to flying fields... how does one go about securing a square mile of land where one can safely fly without bothering the neighbors and threatening the local livestock?

RE: What is the biggest issue for the future of RC Model Aviation
 

You have to see what the kids are playing with these days. I doubt if I would bother with slot cars when I can play Gran Tourismo online with people all over the world. No offence, but in their eyes the slot track might as well have been a hobby horse.

RE: What is the biggest issue for the future of RC Model Aviation
 

As far as the biggest issue. The loss of exclusiveness will drive out the old timers, and the parks and any open areas will be the venues for the new technologies. Doesn't sound so bad to me.

RE: What is the biggest issue for the future of RC Model Aviation
 

I think holding on to flying fields and developing new ones will be our biggest challenge. The new PPP program may help and it may not. While many of the small electrics can be flow away from a formal field, I much prefer to fly at a designated flying field. Much more controlled and much safer for all concerned.

RE: What is the biggest issue for the future of RC Model Aviation
 

In our area, it seems holding on to flying fields is becoming a major problem. About 6 years ago, we lost a field to a developer that we had for over 40 years. The farmer who was leasing to us had to sell out. Other area clubs ran into similar situations.

We got very concerned. We had several teams in previouse years looking for a new field, without much luck. But, when we had to move, somebody found an area on top of a sealed fly ash dump, bounded by two sealed and one active sanitary land fills. We should be safe for a few more years. These landfill areas usually can't be used for much for a number of decades.

I don't think use of parks and school grounds for the park flying group are going to be a solution for very long time. We already have had several local communities cut out any kind of modeling activity in those areas for various stated and unstated reasons. Even some of our local county metroparks no longer allow kites or even the small North Pacific type rubber models, let alone any kind of powered model.

RE: What is the biggest issue for the future of RC Model Aviation
 

having been in rc almost 30 years I see the retention of good flying sites dwindling ..In retrospect I think the AMA could have taken a strong leadership role and and gone so far as to buy sites and establish permanent sites and helped struggling clubs or even re organzied bad ones .over a period of years I think it would have made a difference.I am part of a club that shortly will become extinct in my opinion.and part of it is the fault of the club to heed complaints and not follow simple rules..part of it is urban creep and the general publics fear of model planes and the noise they make.over the years they never set up a good neighbor communication plan .it has become a standoff and since we are guests of the city and the complainers are homeowners I know the outcome.

RE: What is the biggest issue for the future of RC Model Aviation
 

So who would maintain and be legally responsible for these fields? Are your saying that the AMA should do the same capacity that any 5 local people could achieve and they are most likely located a lot closer than Muncie? I mean seriously, asking the AMA to create local/regional fields is like simply saying ... AMA please build me a field, you're smarter than me .... oh yeah and I want to fly there for free.

In your local club struggle, what could have the AMA done to prevent this neighbor relationship, which the current club members couldn't have done themselves by simply making an introduction and a handshake? But if I did need help on a field, I would just consult with my DVP, which I have done for years with great success.

The AMA gives plenty of support, most don't even realize they are getting that support from the moment they receive the AMA charter for review. Fields are dwindling because gas and glow is being replaced by models which have less wing loading and quieter motors. But the AMA already took a post retroactive position to save and acquire that market segment.

RE: What is the biggest issue for the future of RC Model Aviation
 

As far as the AMA coming in and buying and establishing flying fields for everybody, Just not practical or doable.

I seem to recall a couple decades or so ago, people in the AMA actually thought it would be feasible for the AMA to establish a number of regional flying sites, similar to Muncie. I believe they were hoping to even make at least one per state available.

Then they built Muncie. I think by the time Muncie opened, the cost and complexity of just opening and maintaining one such site convinced almost anybody who had anything to do with the organization of it that one site was all a group the size of AMA could handle. Many of the AMA critics are now complaining either about Muncie as a white elephant, or even complaining because it is a model aviation site with RC being shared with FF and CL.

There's another issue that doesn't get a whole lot of consideration in attracting kids. There is a lot of emphasis in schools on sports, especially football, baseball, basketball, and lately soccer. These are seen as paths to glory, prestige, and big buck incomes. Model aviation doesn't have that kind of attraction or national heroes. Most of us seem to ignore the sport aspect of model aviation, concentrate on only the hobby, and end up with kids facing the "oh, why do you just want to be a baby playing with those toy airplanes instead of learning something useful!" syndrome without any strong supportive backing. Even if you sometimes find out the people responding this way are just herd animals following the group mentality instead of thinking for themselves, and they might occassionaly reveal a grudging respect, and even admit privately to one of our participants they wish they could do what we do, this perception is still a huge impediment to attracting new participants, especially among kids who are under enormous pressure to fit into a mold.

And as far as teaching kids something in school, the idea really doesn't fit in with the objectives of "Educators". As both of my Godaughter's sisters who are teachers will tell you, the educators sit in their offices at the local and state boards of education doing everything they can to emphasize getting the kids to pass the various ranking tests, with no importance attached to what the kids learrn. The higher the kids in a school district score on the various ranking tests, the better the educators look, and the higher their salaries can go, even as the teachers have to buy supplies out of their own pocket and forego salary increases or even take pay cuts and RIFs to provide the higher salaries and bonuses for the educators, who sometimes seem to have never spent time in a classroom except as a student.

RE: What is the biggest issue for the future of RC Model Aviation
 

50+AirYears, MAN, I love your style!

RE: What is the biggest issue for the future of RC Model Aviation
 

50+AirYears, it is great that someone agrees with what I was trying to say. Coming from a kid, and a kid that has had a few problem that have let me see a few extra things that are going on, all kids want to fit in. knowing that I do I have the good fortune of brains and I’m great with people I do get to fit in so it isn’t my top priority, but the kids I hang around with don’t do much but sports, school, and hanging out. And as most have you have experienced with your kids, they come and go with hobbies. I have and it isn’t new but the money involved is to much. Well ama ( my dad had to get one too) cost amount $65, and we got a deal on a used plane in my club so $200, with that was all the repair items and such $60, lastly $50 for club membership. That is already $375 and I just got the DX-7 so double that. That is a lot to just walk away. So as you can see if you think teaching this in school is going to help your most likely wrong.

I hope you guys can understand i'm just trying to shed some light on this.

RE: What is the biggest issue for the future of RC Model Aviation
 

So far, all I see in this PPP thing is to fatten the wallets of the ama and a select few that sell electric planes. My take, like it or lump it.......


Ronnie

RE: What is the biggest issue for the future of RC Model Aviation
 

That is excellent, seemefly_1. You are THERE! You see what is going on while we old timers can only relate past experience. You keep up the good work and do NOT be too intimidated to take us on. ;)

I have a now 15 year old grandson that in short time was making a great little pilot. Did I say "little"? Now 6'1' and 175#, he ain't too little. HA! :) Anyway with all the school activities he is simply not available to fly, and to build a model, even an ARF, is out of the question. He loves the Band and plays some big horn thing.

However in a few years, maybe he will get back to it.

You keep on trucking there, seemefly_1. Good to have your inputs. I, for one, listen and think about them whether we agree or not.