RE: Is the first Chartered PPP club violating the rules?
 

For a guy that says he would nominate me for office,
he doesnt seem to understand everything he has given up as PPP.


He would do something, but Hoss & I have to tell him he cant because he is PPP.
We would nominate someone, and type multiple posts to that point, yet doesnt even know PPP have had that taken away. How much does he know about PPP if he doesnt even know that. What other PPP limits is he unaware of in his campaign of how wonderful PPP is.

Yet he dosnt see that as wrong or needing change.
Maybe if he was aware of the PPP restrictions he wouldnt run around saying he wants to nominate folks,
if he wanted to nominate folks why did he join PPP?
Perhaps if he researched what PPP is and learned what he gave up he would like it less.

Sure, to folks that dont know about the limits it looks nice.
And to the folks that plain violate the limits (out of ignorance of the limit?) it seems swell <pic in MA & nominators>

Remember the guy that argued 3 pages of Paintball thread on SafetyCode #3 before we got him to admit he didnt actually read it. Remember the guy that thinks PPPs can nominate?
Easy to be a champion if you dont do the homework.

RE: Is the first Chartered PPP club violating the rules?
 

Yes.

The PPP program is a first step to making a tiered insurance organization based on what you fly rather than focusing on promoting model aviation.

Therefore ALL members are being affected and harmed.


But, that is beside the point. This thread is about whether or not the "First AMA PPP chartered club" has been documented to be breaking the "rules".

RE: Is the first Chartered PPP club violating the rules?
 

LCS,

While it's true that I have little use for ARF or any other kind of ready to fly model airplane, or model airplanes in general that don't replicate the full scale, I am not against others using them if that's what turn's them on. I am against the entrance of a model that you didn't build in a competitive event. I am, in other words, a proponent of the Builder Of The Model rule. That rule is now only used for certain classes in a few events, and those events that still require it are put upon by those who only fly ARF's. That's a topic for another thread. I would be in favor of the PPP group completely if (A) they were full members, and (B) they paid their full share. As it stands, they are (obviously) going to join the few clubs that will spring up across the country, and then try to, "Bootleg", an illegal model into the club flying mix. These PPP flyers as 804 stated, are probably beginning pilots, and I just wonder who will be seriously injured or when the first fatality involving an innocent bystander will occur. Remember, these PPP guys, if they really are beginners, don't have the safety rule mentality that most of we who have been flying for years have, nor are they flying the models at a venue specificially designed for that purpose, but will be flying these mini models at public parks, and the like. Trust me, if a Hot Rod Stryker hits a child, that child will suffer serious injuries or worse. I would rather see these guys hold full memberships and join the regular clubs, and be able to fly at the normal model airplane fields.

I am patently against anyone belonging to any group that will make them a second class member, and not have the same rights and privilidges as the rest of the membership. That is as wrong as any other discriminatory acts that have been forced on any of the population in the past. I firmly believe this, no matter what 804 and some others have claimed regarding me.

You have seen my posts here for several years now, and I don't think that you can say that you have ever seen me post differently regarding this.

Bill, AMA 4720

RE: Is the first Chartered PPP club violating the rules?
 

And what will make park flyers safer pilots by joining at $58 rather than $29? PPP's have to abide by all the same safety codes regular members do AND fly <2lbs, <60mph and <200 ft. What will make a $58 park flyer pilot safer by flying planes that can go as fast as the law of physics will allow, as heavy as 55 lbs (plus) and fly as high as the FAA allows? I'll show you a video of what can happen when a plane like that lands in a crowd if you want.

And who cares if they are new pilots ... great, that's the intended purpose of the program to add more, not change the beloved $58 program, but rather ADD members whom they would have never had in the first place

Oh and in regards to them coming into the competition mix with their ARF built planes .... no worries, the AMA already eliminated that possibility. Thus the incentive to upgrade to full membership if they ever decide to go that route.

I know you'll never switch Bill, but that doesn't matter. Seems to me PPP is picking up, not down.

RE: Is the first Chartered PPP club violating the rules?
 

Stang-

"Me too," potentially. PPP puts the onus on established clubs to decide whether or not to accept PPP members into the club. That has potential adverse consequences that PPP marketeers obliviously never considered. A site that is a favorite of mine, and in which I am a plankholder, is now controlled by a BoD with a prexy whose capacity for rational judgment I have little (as in zip, zero, squat) confidence in. Site is publicly owned, and site lease terms specify AMA membership is required - sans any elaboration as to what 'tier' or personal insurance limits are associated with said required AMA membership. This individual is hung up on "Why shouldn't they pay the same as everybody else <to AMA>?" Personally, I don't give a rat's hiney if somebody decides to take the cheapest deal offered by AMA for access to flying sites they have erected their toll gates in front of. I do care a lot about the predictable consequences of the club discriminating against him and prompting him to take his grievance to the site owning public entity.

Abel

RE: Is the first Chartered PPP club violating the rules?
 

Once again, it's back to Ready, Fire, Aim.

Dion, if you had read my post entirely, you would have seen that I stated that the safety factor comes from the venue that they would be using. You know, flying at a designated model airplane flying field, rather than in a public park, school yard, parking lot or where ever. The ability to control who is walking in the vicinity of the flying model etc. Yeah I know that you can site examples of pedestrians walking across the runway, but that's not the norm now is it?

Oops, you can't fly in your public park, can you? Even though you said that you would have the Urban kids flying in Central Park, now didn't you? Maybe that's becoming an Urban Legend too.

Bill, AMA 4720

RE: Is the first Chartered PPP club violating the rules?
 

So you don't welcome park flyers at all? Who said PPP's won't have a venue? You think your club is the only one discriminating against PPP's?

RE: Is the first Chartered PPP club violating the rules?
 

Are they flying in Central Park yet?

RE: Is the first Chartered PPP club violating the rules?
 

It's imminent, LCS. The latest Fly R/C to hit the street has a full page fluff piece for PPP on p. 135. The Vegas Aces are featured, sans the Stryker:

"Thanks to AMA's Park Pilot Program we now have a great place to fly!

This is just one of the many Park Pilot fields popping up all around the country - at parks, field houses, gyms, privately owned open lands, and indoor facilities.

Chances are you drove by one on your way to work today.

That's right. Whether its a site site that's open year round, or a site which shares time with other sports or activities, development of officially recognized AMA Park Pilot sites are underway in metro areas throughout the U.S."


Abel

RE: Is the first Chartered PPP club violating the rules?
 

OMG[X(]
I dont want to call them liars,
I will cause they are,
but I dont want to.[8D]

How long till we get the 2nd PPP club?
Why, that would double your odds of driving by one.
Of course it is in vegas, where else do you get longshot odds like that.

RE: Is the first Chartered PPP club violating the rules?
 

So.....being new to this sport and all.......what was the question again? lol Sorry guys. You're free to have at it, I just couldn't pass that up. It's what I used to ask my kids when they carried on like this.

RE: Is the first Chartered PPP club violating the rules?
 

Careful, or they won't let you fly at Cane Ridge, and you will have to go to Edwin Warner or to Neely's Bend to fly. :D:D

Bill, AMA 4720

RE: Is the first Chartered PPP club violating the rules?
 

LOL........flew at Cane Ridge one time. Quit after I heard the stories about the guy that shoots at the planes. I don't know, figured I didn't need any help bringing mine down faster than it was suppose to.

Paul

RE: Is the first Chartered PPP club violating the rules?
 

So are you flying down at Mike Dunphy's place, or where? You will notice that I'm in the middle of Florida.

Watch out for Gordon Boulton while you're at it.

Bill, AMA 4720

RE: Is the first Chartered PPP club violating the rules?
 

Yup Bill, I'm out of Middle Point where Mike is. Actually, Mike is 'one' of my instructors. I decided it wasn't going to hurt me to have more than one. In some cases it helped, perhaps in others it didn't. Mike's a good character. Most of the guys out there are.

I noticed you were from FL. Lived down there for about 34 years myself. Orlando/Kissimmee/Lakeland mostly. Don't miss it much.

Oh, Gordon is a trip isn't he? He lives down the street from me. He's alright. Taught me quite a bit, and certainly is good for a laugh.

Anyway, you guys have fun with the politics. I've enjoyed reading it. Thanks.

Paul AMA 897975 (long friggin number compared to yours!)

RE: Is the first Chartered PPP club violating the rules?
 

I grew up in the big City of Shackle Island. If you don't know where that is, head up I-65 to the Long Hollow Pike exit, and go toward Gallatin. In 7 miles you will come to the intersection of State route 258 (New Shackle Island Road). You will be about a half mile from where I grew up. You will be 4.5 miles from Hendersonville.

Bill, AMA 4720

RE: Is the first Chartered PPP club violating the rules?
 

Since when is independence and democracy a bad thing. This harms you?

Time to renegotiate that lease. Have it stipulate Open AMA membership. Unless the public entity that oversees the site doesn't wish to discriminate on nothing more than the type of aircraft flown. Their insurance coverage is the same regardless. As it stands, PPP members meet their criteria.

If he/she is being discriminated against then what should they do? Slink away and let your BOD Prexies ill will reign over all the serfs? What concern is it of his or the clubs as to how much someone pays to the AMA? Should there also be a standard regarding how much someone paid for their airplanes and equipment? Rediculous. The club should be proud to get a new dues paying member.

So, you have a pr*ck for a BOD president, therefore PPP is harming you?

RE: Is the first Chartered PPP club violating the rules?
 

If the PPP increases overall AMA membership and promotes PPP flying is that not promoting model aviation or just not what you consider model aviation?

Therefore no members are being affected (adversely) and (definitely) no one is being harmed.

As it happened to be I was addressing another posters specific use of the phrase "giant miscarriage the PPP charter is."

In regards to the topic of the thread, it was a nit-picking observation that cannot stand on it's own merit. Not going to be proven either way in this forum that is for sure.

RE: Is the first Chartered PPP club violating the rules?
 

Of course it can be resolved in this forum.
Someone just has to post the local rules of that Vegas club in this forum to resolve it.

Unless of course they are Sercet Rules other AMA'ers are not allowed to know.

That is all it takes to resolve it.
That is all it has needed to take since page 1.

Why dont you geys that get MA just get those local rules and post them to put this thread to bed.

RE: Is the first Chartered PPP club violating the rules?
 

You think maybe they made the whole thing up? Not one of those in the pic have posted anything. Not one person from AMA is saying anything. Maybe they took a pitcure and said this is the first PPP club from Las Vegas and even those in the pic don't know about it. I guess that being as they are supposed to be PPP they did not get the mag. and the AMA knows this so putting there pic in there would not bother any of them they don't see the mag. So they would not know there club is in it. Maybe just Maybe they are not even a club but some guys that someone took a pitcure of and viola there they are the first ever ppp club. What you think?

RE: Is the first Chartered PPP club violating the rules?
 

Great answer. [:'(] Renegotiate the lease to lock out sport flyers/AMA members that decided they can live with the peepee restrictions and so chose the bargain basement AMA membership. Now why do you suppose the public entity that owns the site would be recalcitrant about the club's discriminating against members of the taxpaying public "on nothing more than the type of aircraft flown?"

Abel

RE: Is the first Chartered PPP club violating the rules?
 

Super comprehension [sm=bananahead.gif] My point exactly. Your club wouldn't have a leg to stand on making that request because it is WRONG. Just as it is wrong for a public entity to discriminate "on nothing more than the type of aircraft flown" it is just as wrong for a club to try to do so.

If it was a private club on private property you could get away with it but it would still be WRONG.

Jeese Louise

RE: Is the first Chartered PPP club violating the rules?
 

perhaps the PPP at that site will go comando to the public entity and get he site renegotiated to just the safe foamie PPP models instead of the dangerous Open ones that even the AMA put more insurance on.

But then, by what we see in MA,
everyone will just fly anything, PPP or not (strykers?), there anyway,
whether Muncie knows or not.

RE: Is the first Chartered PPP club violating the rules?
 

You certainly have an obtuse way of making your (exact) point. Why in heck were you arguing against mine if you agreed with it? AMA passed the buck to the clubs giving them two bad options to choose from: (1) accept PPP members they don't want in their clubs, or (2) risk their flying site privileges by discriminating against them in direct opposition to public policy. That's your perception of 'independence and democracy?' If so, the the thug that tells you "gimee your wallet or I'll blow your head off" is offering you options and so you have the freedom and independence to exercise your free will. That's your democracy, as in in two wolves and a sheep voting on what's for dinner.

Abel

RE: Is the first Chartered PPP club violating the rules?
 

Since when is it wrong for a private club to discriminate against certain types of aircraft? Let's rephrase the question and drop that word, "discriminate" because it is being used out of context. We are not talking about a civil rights movement, just what private clubs should be allowed to do.
So, what is wrong about a private club specifying which types of planes may be flown? We have a couple in this area, their rules are simple and no one has had any trouble figuring out where they need to go to fly whichever plane is in question.