Flying Fields Lost and Why
 

Gents,
Looking to get an idea as to how many flying fields have been lost, what areas they were in, how many members or pilots have been affected and the reason or reasons why the field was lost...

Thanks in advance.
Hooked.

RE: Flying Fields Lost and Why
 

Every field that I know that has been lost was due to encroachment of population. They start off in the boondocks and as houses, etc. move closer eventually they are lost.

Two things:

1 - the general public does not want to listen to toy airplanes buzzing around

2 - the general public does not want toy airplane buzzing around over their heads/homes/land

A very small number of fields are lost due to changed land use, i.e. the farmer decides to plant the land, etc.

RE: Flying Fields Lost and Why
 

numbers man...numbers....how many do you know of and where were they?

RE: Flying Fields Lost and Why
 

OCMA field - 2006 - 450 members. Lost due to landlord issues and complaints from neighbors about overflying stables, roads, etc. Fortunately found a new field, with no issues and a better landlord!!

Soaring field in West Covina - 20 plus year history lost in 2007 due to neighbor complaints of overflying homes, and finally a power outage caused by hitting wires. They found a new field, but not nearly as nice as what they had.

North Las Vegas field - not lost but in jeopardy due to homes being built across the street from their field. Same with the other Vegas field. Homes moving in. Combined perhaps 200 members. Not sure on the count.

Field at former Tustin Marine helicopter base - late 1998 - 400 members, lost due to change in landowner (City) no interest in model field.

Field in Mesa, AZ, lost years ago due to homes moving in. Unsure of numbers of members.

Field in Gilbert, AZ area, same thing, new construction forced the field to close.

CASL - glider field, Gilbert, AZ. Longtime glider field lost to soaring due to homes and complaints of over flight. Now a small electric only field.

RE: Flying Fields Lost and Why
 

I'll mention two central Illinois club field moves within the last 4 years...

One was in existence for about 10 years (new club) and the landlord's boy grew up & started a family - the location of choice to build a house was on the field. About 35 families in the club.

Another was an established club, in residence at the field for about 14 years. That property has valuable gravel beneath the surface, and a speculator bought it in anticipation of a roadbuilding project nearby. About 30 families in the club.

Best wishes,
Dave Olson

RE: Flying Fields Lost and Why
 

Wasnt there one shut down (by encroachment) in California out by Corona/Elsinore a couple years back?

And what happened to the (county fairgrounds?) vs parks dept land situation we read about here last year?
( Goliathman )

If you are into piecing together mysteries,
check the [link=http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/m_8299827/tm.htm]thread by Phjoker[/link] about club closing / kicked out by internal politics

RE: Flying Fields Lost and Why
 

Could be, I don't get out there much. SOCL has it tough, lots of people and lots of homes, easy to find unhappy neighbors.

RE: Flying Fields Lost and Why
 

Mile Square Park in Fountain Valley, 2000. County of Orange decided that they could make more revenue from a golf course.

Triangle off Linda Vista Dr. in San Marcos CA is now a strip mall.

Fallbrook R/C flyers (my field) will close in a couple of months because of the widening and realignment of a state highway.

City of Carlsbad CA passed new ordinace banning all R/C activity except for one slope site. (We are fighting it).

RE: Flying Fields Lost and Why
 

Jacksonville Florida, Gateway RC is moving soon, city sold land (at the far end of a prison farm) to the feds and they built a VA cemetary, when the cemetary expands the field is going to go.

RE: Flying Fields Lost and Why
 

Since the beginning of time ? You are funny !!:D

The first field that I can remember being lost was in Kingsport Tn. It was an old drag strip. The property was sold to a radio station. 3 huge antennas went up along with about 100 guide wires. So much for flying there. That was either 1979 or 1980.

But Eastman Kodak came to the rescue. Gave the club a 100 hundred year lease , ( for one dollar ) for a very nice field. They paved a runway and built a shelter and a gravel road. So things worked out OK for that club.

I have seen many parking lots, (3),( used with permission ) become out of bounds as soccer fields and round ball games encroached the areas.

Here in Humble, our AMA club was actually kicked out of the landfill for a softball field. We had been there for years before the ball players came along. That was in 1991 or 1992.

So that is 5 that I have had experience with during the past 30 years. Nationally, it must be thousands.

RE: Flying Fields Lost and Why
 

Dreadnaut-

Especially sorry to hear about your Fallbrook site (hits close to home). Bad news for you modelers, and bad for the nice communities of Fallbrook and Bonsall, too. Tragic scene having a freeway built through the center of your town, but I guess the Indian casinos to the E need better access, and they can afford the influence to get it done. CA is bankrupt, but can find the $$$$ to pave the countryside over. Go figure.

Good luck in your fight to keep flying in Carlsbad.

Abel

RE: Flying Fields Lost and Why
 

We just recieved a draft agreement for Waymer field, Some of my favorite highlights from the contract between the county and the two clubs (contractor) that use the field:

I. DUTIES OF THE CONTRACTOR:

A. The CONTRACTOR shall operate Waymer Flying Field for aeromodelor events including races, practices, open flying and other aeromodelor related activities. CONTRACTOR shall operate the facility per Academy of Model Aeronautics (AMA) guidelines;

B. The CONTRACTOR shall be responsible for and entitled to the use of Waymer Flying Field during all normal operating hours of David B. Waymer Park and at other times which may be approved by COUNTY. CONTRACTOR is responsible for determining and posting hours the Waymer Aeromodelors Field will be open for public use. CONTRACTOR is responsible for opening and closing the park gates per the posted hours.

III. LIMITATIONS:

A. CONTRACTOR may assess program participant fees as may be required for aeromodelor related activities;

IV. DUTIES OF THE COUNTY:

The COUNTY, in consideration of the above, agrees to:

A. Allow CONTRACTOR exclusive operation of Waymer Aeromodelor Flying Field at David B. Waymer Park;

B. Insure the facilities and grounds are clean and safe to include mowing of the turf;

RE: Flying Fields Lost and Why
 

The Fort Worth Thunderbirds are having to give up their field in a US Army Corps of Engineers park area at Benbrook Lake, due to a safety issue about local overflights of a lake perimeter road, especially with giant scale models, turbine models and IMAC large aerobatic models. Plus, the field has a million dollar panoramic view of the lake that the park REALLY wants to exploit for more picnic areas, camping areas and other park go-ers amenities.

The good news is that the Corps of Engineers is moving us to another part of the park later this year and has more or less recreated our field (without the million dollar lake view) in a location that will be safer, with no models overflying any roads of populated park areas.

Still a sad move, as we had been there for 40 years.

Our club varies between 150 and 200 members.

RE: Flying Fields Lost and Why
 

Count your blessings with the new location, you could be there for another 40 years.

RE: Flying Fields Lost and Why
 

Horizon City Flyers lost the field 2 years ago due to development. Were in the process of rebuilding now.
Mike

RE: Flying Fields Lost and Why
 

LRCC not lost but in jeopardy due to: not reporting hobby related accidents and legal contest initiated by the leadership.

RE: Flying Fields Lost and Why
 

The casinos do need better access and Hwy 76 is very dangerous east of the field but the road is NOT going to be widened out to 15. They are only going to widen it to Mission that goes to Fallbrook, the field will be lost for 1.3 miles of road. The rest of the widening will happen later in 3-4 years.

RE: Flying Fields Lost and Why
 

Lost Flying Fields? Does that question include how many public parks, school yards, parking lots with adjacent open land and other usual parkflyer sites have been lost to the RC community.

That number has to be orders of magnitude larger then lost AMA Club fields.

RE: Flying Fields Lost and Why
 

Indubitably. What can/should AMA be doing about it? Many AMA members use such flying sites, by choice or because there is no club site (or membership opening) in their locale. Seems like obtaining and keeping them should be at least as high a priority as it is for club flying sites.

RE: Flying Fields Lost and Why
 

I agree and therein lies the "Catch 22"........... If the AMA made the focus of the Parkflyer program to be the obtaining and keeping of Parkflyer sites, there would be thread after thread here about the evil plot of AMA trying to take control of Parkflyers..........

RE: Flying Fields Lost and Why
 

Just what can they do. They have a support system in place that club can contact to get PR material to use as ammo to sell themselves. The number of AMA members has been in steady decline over the past few years and more than likely the slide will continue. I don't know about were your city's economic situation but ours sucks there's just no money for specialty groups such as ours not to mention enough land available for our use.. There just isn't enough money to finance a new every field that's lost. Here we can't even use a city park due to city ordinances that specifically band RC Aircraft in a city park. So what do we do. Were going it alone found the property signed a long term lease and now are in the process off financing the project.
Mike

RE: Flying Fields Lost and Why
 

I wasn't referring specifically to AMA PPP members, nor even giving them just due I suppose, as there are only about 2,500 of them (and 3 clubs to support them last I heard). I think that program has tanked, and frankly would assign to it a DNR order.
I was thinking about the 40,000 to 70,000 'full fare' AMA members that don't belong to clubs (pick a number between, based the cred of the sources that have provided data).
They are the forgotten members of AMA, sad because AMA would not be a viable organization without them. Frankly, I was encouraged about your prior posting, as I thought "finally, somebody else recognizes their very existence, and apparently cares." I have a couple of notions about why AMA should care:

1) They subsidize the site owner's insurance that clubs are very dependent on, yet get no benefit of it themselves.

2) Their flying sites, while probably more tenuous than club sites as you seem to allude, are the spawning grounds for new modelers that represent the majority of the potential member pool that AMA has to recruit from.

More reasons stirring in my head, but that's enuf for starters. If I seemed biased, that is true so let's put that issue to rest. I have one foot in each camp.

Cletus

RE: Flying Fields Lost and Why
 

Yes, I agree that the current AMA PP rogram is a bust. What I would like to see is a program that can be "Piloted" (no pun intended) in some large urban areas to develop the materiels, messages and guidance to encourage local AMA Clubs to sponser a local PP flield.

Don't knowwhat the correct "carrot or stick" could be to influence Clubs to take this on. But if just 10 or 20 AMA Clubs took the challenge to sponser a PP fleld it would be great. The only rationalle for the "large urban areas" is that there should be larger Clubs with a big enough membership and hopefully resources to take this on.

And I know it's herasy, but AMA membership should not be a requirement to to fly at a PP field as long as the flyer is flying without AMA individual insurance.

Brad

RE: Flying Fields Lost and Why
 

Hi Mike-

Hope you don't think I was ignoring you; I have several vocations and avocations, and another rose to the top.
I guess I wasn't very clear in my last post that you replied to. See my reply to bradpaul for clarification. I'm not (at this time) looking for means to establish new fields of the FBO sort to accommodate clubs, but rather focusing in on what AMA might do to support acquisition of and and sustain 'flying sites of opportunity' for the AMA members (and fellow non member modeling enthusiasts) that need them. Not to be windy, take a look at my last post to the " Would you pay $78.00 a year for AMA if they offered PRIMARY insurance?" thread. I propose looking at that option as one way AMA could help, mutually the org and the members. I'd like to hear your critique; none yet and I'm thinking it might be too off-the-wall. I can handle it if so, and invite you to fire away.

RE: Flying Fields Lost and Why
 

Brad
did you just say you want Muncie to encourage AMA chartered clubs
to sponsor a Renegade field?

"And I know it's herasy, but AMA membership should not be a requirement to to fly at a PP field as long as the flyer is flying without AMA individual insurance."
dude, that is what a Renegade field is: NonAMA & AMA guys welcome to fly together
We have plenty of history of what happens to fields where nonmembers & members fly together
and then we involve AMA clubs... Ohamahawks & Alameda come to mind

RE: Flying Fields Lost and Why
 

Kid, you can spin it how you want, but I personally feel the AMA would be benefitted by promoting the establishment of PP fields sponsered by AMA Clubs and open to both AMA and non AMA flyers.

The AMA would only insure the landowner, and AMA members. The non AMA flyers would have to cover any claims from there own resources or other insurance.

Now my evil plan is that this would both promote model aviation and grow both AMA membership and even regular AMA Club membership as the PP flyers progress in the sport.

Brad

RE: Flying Fields Lost and Why
 

I like it, a whole lot. I'm assuming in that you meant "AMA membership should not be a requirement to to fly at a PP field as long as the flyer is flying without AMA has individual insurance."
Now for the quibbling critique (in my business I don't just seek criticism, I thrive on it), I wouldn't tie it to PP fields as I think the days of the program behind them are shortly numbered. Better to expand the sponsorship to indie flying sites in general.

Cletus

RE: Flying Fields Lost and Why
 

The AMA presently hasno control over who flies at a flyng field. The landowner, be it a public or private entity, has exclusive power to say who does or does not have use of the facilities.

Surely you weren't suggesting that the AMA include non-AMA members in it's landowner coverage. I don't read your postto say that but otherwise I don't get the point of the post in general.

RE: Flying Fields Lost and Why
 

"Gents,
Looking to get an idea as to how many flying fields have been lost, what areas they were in, how many members or pilots have been affected and the reason or reasons why the field was lost...

Thanks in advance.
Hooked."


Just what does any of the last few post have anything to do with the OP? What am I missing here?
Mike

RE: Flying Fields Lost and Why
 

Umm.............a reply to your question?

RE: Flying Fields Lost and Why
 

Surely you know it already does.

RE: Flying Fields Lost and Why
 

I fail to see anything relevant in your post about lost fields. Have you lost yours? The only thing I see here is you and bradpaul posting to one another.
Mike

RE: Flying Fields Lost and Why
 

Sorry for spoiling your day, Mike. Hope tomorrow is better for you.

Cletus

RE: Flying Fields Lost and Why
 

You haven't spoiled anything. Continue on with your off topic posts. I'll just move along until something of value is posted. This seems to be the norm on this forum anyway.
Have a great afternoon.
Mike

RE: Flying Fields Lost and Why
 

York Area RC club in South Central PA has lost three fields in the past five years.

The first was a field of 13 years and was lost due to noise complaints from one neighbor. The club grew in both numbers and activity levels the last few years of using that location which contributed to losing that field.

The second was only used for one summer and again was lost due to one neighbor that lived almost a mile away complaining to the Township regarding noise.

The third was a PERFECT location except for difficult access due to a rough entrance road and a neighbor along that road complaining of the increased traffic on the entrance lane which was right along his property line and house. That field was lost due to the owners not paying taxes for many years and finally being foreclosed on.....the property was sold at auction and there is a slight chance of re-establishing a field with the new owners.

The club found a new location In June of this year and we have been flying since. Its not the ideal field but at least we are flying.

Steve

RE: Flying Fields Lost and Why
 

We just gave the owner of ours his usual spiral cut Xmas ham for another years rent on the field....

RE: Flying Fields Lost and Why
 

Two RC fields in OKC were moved.
The Baxter Field flyers original site on the Lake Stanley Draper Reservation was closed due to the opening of a new Police shooting range. They were located 2-3 miles farther south.
The Westside club orignally at NW 50th and Morgan road got a new paved runway right down the middle of their field 4 lanes wide and 14 miles long, the John Kilpatrick Turnpike around OKC. They moved to leased land 3 miles west of the old location.

Our CL park for life in central OKC Topping park is being destroyed for new interchange of I-44 and I-235. There was a lawyer that kept defending the land, which was given to the city as a flying park inperpetuity but he evidently gave up the fight.

The TORKS of OKC had a second field in some undeveloped land. But it fell out of favor with the club. The runway is still there:

&lt;iframe width="425" height="350" frameborder="0" scrolling="no" marginheight="0" marginwidth="0" src="http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&amp;source=s_q&amp;hl=en&amp;geocode=&amp ;q=2038+West+Memorial+RD+OKC&amp;sll=35.606719,-97.539067&amp;sspn=0.00656,0.009624&amp;safe=on&am p;ie=UTF8&amp;hq=&amp;hnear=2038+W+Memorial+Rd,+Ok lahoma+City,+Oklahoma,+73134&amp;ll=35.606763,-97.539067&amp;spn=0.006559,0.009624&amp;t=h&amp;z= 17&amp;output=embed"></iframe&gt;
View Larger Map

And as documented else where around here my old club in Akron Ohio the Corsair Model Club is losing a site because the county parks department doesn't want noisey little airplanes flyin OVER park land.

RE: Flying Fields Lost and Why
 

"And as documented else where around here my old club in Akron Ohio the Corsair Model Club is losing a site because the county parks department doesn't want noisey little airplanes flyin OVER park land."



Giv'em the finger an go forth to new fields...[8D]

RE: Flying Fields Lost and Why
 

Grand Prairie Model Plane club (in TX) lost their field about 4 years ago... Housing developments were sprouting up too close to the model field. The club chose to relocate before an accident happened... I don' think we were kicked out, but it would have happened eventually. They even put a soccer field toward the end of our runway... [:@] At the time we probably had about 150 members.

RE: Flying Fields Lost and Why
 

I guess we know where you guys stand on the Ham vs Turkey poll ;)