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Silent-AV8R 08-22-2009 01:49 AM

RE: District X Election
 
Then you need to get the Bylaws changed to reflect your vision of how replacements for incomplete terms are conducted. But somehow I feel that is not your true intention here. I suspect it is far more likely that you simply want to cast a negative light on Jim Giffin for how he became the DVP.

True, I am appointed and serve at the pleasure of the DVP, not sure what that has to do with anything. Tell me, have you ever been a part of the AMA (not club level) in either an appointed or elected position? Just curious.

The Toolman 08-22-2009 07:43 AM

RE: District X Election
 


ORIGINAL: Silent-AV8R

Then you need to get the Bylaws changed to reflect your vision of how replacements for incomplete terms are conducted. But somehow I feel that is not your true intention here. I suspect it is far more likely that you simply want to cast a negative light on Jim Giffin for how he became the DVP.

True, I am appointed and serve at the pleasure of the DVP, not sure what that has to do with anything. Tell me, have you ever been a part of the AMA (not club level) in either an appointed or elected position? Just curious.



Even though I don't agree with most of his ideas, you still have to start somewhere...........;)

KidEpoxy 08-22-2009 08:57 AM

RE: District X Election
 

Then you need to get the Bylaws changed to reflect your vision of how replacements for incomplete terms are conducted.
what? [&:]
Just what "your vision" of Abel's are you talking about?
Abel said he knew how the interim guy got there, he didnt complain about that.
He just said an elected guy in an elected office is better than an appointed, followed by reminding us of the advantage incumbents have in elections. What "your vision" bylaw change are you saying Abel wants?

Silent,
if you dont want anyone to run against the appointed incumbent,
(since your posts here are more against LT than for the appointee
... heck against ANYONE opposing the appointee - 'change for the sake of change')

that is not 'winning' an election.
That is an appointee being the name on the AMA classic One Name Ballot


This is not Change for the Sake of Change,
its Candidates for the Sake of Election.
Voting is choosing, One Name Ballots aint choosing

Silent-AV8R 08-22-2009 09:30 AM

RE: District X Election
 
Kid - I stated early in this thread that I support multiple candidates. That is not my issue. My issue is Abel attempting to smear the incumbent by making it seem that because he was appointed to the position in accordance with the Bylaws.

I do not want people to be given the impression that being appointed to the DVP position is something that should be held against the incumbent. That is my only point in responding to Abel.

I want to make my voting decision on who I think is the best candidate and not vote for one guy simply because he is not the incumbent or because he is.

So how about we stay focused on that issue rather than wandering way off topic.?

KidEpoxy 08-22-2009 03:28 PM

RE: District X Election
 
I still dont get what bylaw change you are saying Abel wants.
You declared Abel's 'vision' requires a bylaw change... what does?

Hossfly 08-24-2009 11:44 PM

RE: District X Election
 

ORIGINAL: ltougas

I have been notified by the AMA that my nomination was accepted for the Vice Presidential election in District X. Any District X Members who would like to discuss issues that are of interest to them please join me at a web site I have created, the address is:

http://ama-district-x-election.blogspot.com/

I look forward to hearing from you.

Sincerely,
Lawrence Tougas
AMA 247032
Lawrence, you can post this on your web site if you care to.

Copied from the minutes of the July 25-26 AMA Executive Council Meeting, as posted publically on the AMA Web site.

>>>>>>>
9. New Business

a. E-mail EC agenda items to Leader Members

In discussion with some of his district Leader Members, Fitch reported that they would like to receive a copy of the EC agenda, via e-mail, two weeks prior to each Council meeting so they can provide input. Supporting documents for agenda items can be requested through headquarters however, documents containing “confidential” or “EC Only” material will not be available.

MOTION VIII: Moved by G. Fitch (II) and seconded by J. Rice (VIII) to provide by e-mail to all AMA Leader Members, the Executive Council agenda two weeks prior to each Executive Council meeting.
MOTION passed: 12-Y; 1-N (X)
J. Rice will draft a medium to aid in re-energizing the Leader Member program.
<<<<<<<<<<<<

Notice that your current DVP wants to keep everyone in the mushroom factory,(in the dark and full of feces) just like he did as Pres. of IMAA.

Good luck.

edited: add emphasis to motion VIII vote

Silent-AV8R 08-25-2009 12:20 AM

RE: District X Election
 
I still would like to know what Mr. Tougas sees as his qualifications for the office. Has he ever been a club officer, been involved in AMA as a volunteer, or have any other experience that qualifies him for the job. How long has he been a Leader Member even (required to be a VP). He has kind of appeared suddenly out of nowhere so it would be nice to know a little something about the candidate.

ltougas 08-25-2009 08:49 AM

RE: District X Election
 
My Background

The following are some of my experiences and accomplishments that I believe would make me a good District X Vice-President.

I have been a Design/Project Engineer for 22 years in the Aerospace Industry. I have worked in Defense, and am currently working at a major domestic airline. In defense I designed parts for two missiles used in the “Star Wars” program, and produced parts for the Space Shuttle as well. In the airline industry on the maintenance side I have been the Primary Engineer, on flight control systems, aircraft interiors, and aircraft structure. On the Operations side I was the Operational Engineer on a wide-bodied aircraft, and as such worked with our Chief Pilots to maintain and modify the aircraft flight manual used by all of our pilots. During my career I have worked a number of long-term projects that required supervising multiple participants to ensure project goals and timelines were met. I believe that translates directly in to skills that an effective DVP would need.

In addition I have owned and operated my own Video Production Company and understand the skills need to be a successful entrepreneur. How to market my products which I think are the skills that our local clubs need to employ to market themselves to their communities to win and retain flying sites.

I’ve spent my whole life enthralled by all aspects of aviation. It was this love of aviation that prompted me to secure a Bachelor’s of Science in Aeronautical Engineering from the University of California. I also have a Commercial Multi-Engine Pilot’s License with Instrument Privileges.

Ultimately the members of District X need to choose the candidate that they feel is best qualified to be elected. If the Members choose me I would consider it an honor to serve District X as their Vice-President.

Silent-AV8R 08-25-2009 08:59 AM

RE: District X Election
 
Thank you for answering, you have some intersting work experience, now, if I may, I'd like to ask some more specific questions. I posted these on the other forum as well.

I am curious if you are aware of the history and background of the previous attempt to build a Regional flying site in District X. What do you see yourself doing differently compared to the previous effort? How would you see the AMA funding such a venture?

With regard to the website (District X) aside from the desire to improve it (which I agree with) how do you see doing this? How do you plan to obtain content and improve the site? While your goals are laudable how exactly do you see them being realized? Do you plan on using volunteer help or pay a professional for the impressive array of features and information you propose?

Beyond your work with government agencies in your job have you held any positions within model clubs or volunteered with the AMA in the past? How long have you been a Leader Member? Do you have experience working within a club to obtain a flying site?

Sorry for all the questions but you have appeared out of nowhere and it would be nice to fill in some of the blanks. All of your goals are really nothing new so I am trying to understand how you see realizing those goals and the background and history you have that will enable you to do so.

Thanks.

KidEpoxy 08-25-2009 09:44 AM

RE: District X Election
 
Silent-

"How would you see the AMA funding such a venture? "

Perhaps Muncie need some new blood, someone that kind of appeared suddenly out of nowhere,
to offset the way Muncie currently handles concern over paying for ventures
... if the EC was concerned about how to fund ventures, we wouldnt have that subsidy anchor called PPP.

The dX Regoinal Site could easily get the same procedure PPP got from the established & known EC:
Create it, then use its existence to justify subsidizing it.
So lets just build the dX Regional SIte, and label folks that want fiscal responsibility as AMA Haters.
I for one cant wait to start getting the quartery Regional Flyer magazine ;)

"kind of appeared suddenly out of nowhere"
You make LT sound like he is not part of the muncie good ole boy club one party system, an outsider,
I remember Perot said he had no experience creating a four trillion dollar debt.

Hossfly 08-25-2009 09:45 AM

RE: District X Election
 


ORIGINAL: ltougas

My Background

The following are some of my experiences and accomplishments that I believe would make me a good District X Vice-President.

I have been a Design/Project Engineer for 22 years in the Aerospace Industry. I have worked in Defense, and am currently working at a major domestic airline. In defense I designed parts for two missiles used in the “Star Wars” program, and produced parts for the Space Shuttle as well. In the airline industry on the maintenance side I have been the Primary Engineer, on flight control systems, aircraft interiors, and aircraft structure. On the Operations side I was the Operational Engineer on a wide-bodied aircraft, and as such worked with our Chief Pilots to maintain and modify the aircraft flight manual used by all of our pilots. During my career I have worked a number of long-term projects that required supervising multiple participants to ensure project goals and timelines were met. I believe that translates directly in to skills that an effective DVP would need.

In addition I have owned and operated my own Video Production Company and understand the skills need to be a successful entrepreneur. How to market my products which I think are the skills that our local clubs need to employ to market themselves to their communities to win and retain flying sites.

I’ve spent my whole life enthralled by all aspects of aviation. It was this love of aviation that prompted me to secure a Bachelor’s of Science in Aeronautical Engineering from the University of California. I also have a Commercial Multi-Engine Pilot’s License with Instrument Privileges.

Ultimately the members of District X need to choose the candidate that they feel is best qualified to be elected. If the Members choose me I would consider it an honor to serve District X as their Vice-President.
Lawrence, if I were in D-X, you would have one vote for sure. [sm=47_47.gif] Your work has required you to work with airline pilots and the FAA, plus airline corporate management. Thos are the most difficult groups I know of to actually get something positive accomplished. Congratulations. [sm=thumbup.gif]
I started out hard on you, but you have converted me.
Now if I don't say much more, it is because an endorsement from me, ref. AMA, could be a kiss of death. Best of luck in your endeavor. I mean that.

Silent-AV8R 08-25-2009 10:03 AM

RE: District X Election
 


ORIGINAL: KidEpoxy

Silent-

''How would you see the AMA funding such a venture? ''

Perhaps Muncie need some new blood, someone that kind of appeared suddenly out of nowhere,
to offset the way Muncie currently handles concern over paying for ventures
... if the EC was concerned about how to fund ventures, we wouldnt have that subsidy anchor called PPP.

The dX Regoinal Site could easily get the same procedure PPP got from the established & known EC:
Create it, then use its existence to justify subsidizing it.
So lets just build the dX Regional SIte, and label folks that want fiscal responsibility as AMA Haters.
I for one cant wait to start getting the quartery Regional Flyer magazine ;)

''kind of appeared suddenly out of nowhere''
You make LT sound like he is not part of the muncie good ole boy club one party system, an outsider,
I remember Perot said he had no experience creating a four trillion dollar debt.
Thanks Kid for sharing your insight on this issue. However, I was hoping that the candidate might answer my questions.

ltougas 08-25-2009 11:04 AM

RE: District X Election
 
Silent-AV8R,

No need to apologize for asking questions I’m glad to answer them.

I have no doubt that the previous efforts to obtain a District X flying site were done by a committed group of AMA members. I’m not sure why the process stopped. We both agree that it is a worthy goal. There is no question that meeting that goal will be a long-term-project, something I have experience in accomplishing successfully. Projects like this aren’t sprint races; they are more like relay races. One team takes the reigns for a while then a new team comes in to relieve them and so on. If one plan runs into insurmountable obstacles you make a new plan. There is no reason not to have a standing committee in District X to secure a flying site. We should have an on-going fund raising effort to pay for it. This may take a long time but we should be working towards it on a monthly basis. One thing is for sure if we say it can’t be done we’ll always be right. I say it can be done.

As far as the website goes my first choice would be to find talented individuals within District X to create the site. If there are no volunteers, heck I could create one myself between Blogger, Picasa, and You Tube we could have a great array of timely information on the internet. Color photos, rather than the black and white ones that appear in the District X column in MA. Video of competitions, and building techniques. The only limit is our imagination.

In our club I was elected most likely to re-kit an airplane two months in a row ... I’m kidding; it was actually three months in a row. :D Seriously, our club has a standing roster of officers; there are not annual elections, so it isn’t possible to be elected as an officer.

I’ve been a member of the AMA as far back as 1988; but there was a span of time I was inactive while raising a family. I was made a Leader member this year.

Red Scholefield 08-25-2009 12:44 PM

RE: District X Election
 

ORIGINAL: ltougas

In our club I was elected most likely to re-kit an airplane two months in a row, I’m kidding; it was actually three months in a row. :D Seriously, our club has a standing roster of officers; there are not annual elections, so it isn’t possible to be elected as an officer.

Now that is interesting. Just how are the club officers selected?

As far as an AMA field in District X, you are looking at an area 1000 miles by 750 miles. Even in the center of the area you would have 500 mile radius if you located the site in Nevada. We won't bring in Hawaii and Guam. Do you really think you could get the support of the guys in Arizona and Utah to put a site in the population center, around LA, where land is prohibitively expensive?

Having lofty goals are admirable, but having unrealistic ones waste everyones time and money. Of course given the make up of the left coast population (that brought us Waters, Boxer, Feinstein, Pelosi, Waxman) you might well pull off getting elected on the promise of an AMA flying site even if it is not attainable.

littlecrankshaf 08-25-2009 01:56 PM

RE: District X Election
 


ORIGINAL: ltougas

Silent-AV8R,

No need to apologize for asking questions I’m glad to answer them.

I have no doubt that the previous efforts to obtain a District X flying site were done by a committed group of AMA members. I’m not sure why the process stopped. We both agree that it is a worthy goal. There is no question that meeting that goal will be a long-term-project, something I have experience in accomplishing successfully. Projects like this aren’t sprint races; they are more like relay races. One team takes the reigns for a while then a new team comes in to relieve them and so on. If one plan runs into insurmountable obstacles you make a new plan. There is no reason not to have a standing committee in District X to secure a flying site. We should have an on-going fund raising effort to pay for it. This may take a long time but we should be working towards it on a monthly basis. One thing is for sure if we say it can’t be done we’ll always be right. I say it can be done.

As far as the website goes my first choice would be to find talented individuals within District X to create the site. If there are no volunteers, heck I could create one myself between Blogger, Picasa, and You Tube we could have a great array of timely information on the internet. Color photos, rather than the black and white ones that appear in the District X column in MA. Video of competitions, and building techniques. The only limit is our imagination.

In our club I was elected most likely to re-kit an airplane two months in a row, I’m kidding; it was actually three months in a row. :D Seriously, our club has a standing roster of officers; there are not annual elections, so it isn’t possible to be elected as an officer.

I’ve been a member of the AMA as far back as 1988; but there was a span of time I was inactive while raising a family. I was made a Leader member this year.

So far, I like this guy. Those that think a DVP position should be a full time job has lost sight of what a hobby is... Maybe a 45 year young person can help get AMA's balance correct.

Anyway, good luck and much respect that you can come into the forums and light saber with the old guards.

Silent-AV8R 08-25-2009 02:41 PM

RE: District X Election
 


ORIGINAL: littlecrankshaf

So far, I like this guy. Those that think a DVP position should be a full time job has lost sight of what a hobby is... Maybe a 45 year young person can help get AMA's balance correct.
Based having seen how much time and effort it does take I think it is not unreasonable to point out that it is a HUGE time commitment if done properly. But that does not mean that the DVP cannot be employed full time, many have been, but it puts a real strain on your leisure time. Most that have discovered that they basically had no time for flying since their free time was consumed with District Business.

Being on the EC is not a "hobby". It is a serious commitment to being on the Board of Directors of a large membership organization with a multi-million dollar a year budget.

We've tried the District flying site out here already and I am concerned that without apparently having any knowledge of that Mr. Tougas has made it a major part of his platform. That is all well and good, but without at least knowing what has been done in the past it seems to me to be a recipe for essentially re-discovering the wheel. Which is why I keep asking about it. Details are important. Where are you thinking of putting it? How are you going to pay for it? Who will do the work? I've seen the enormous effort that it took to get the first Regional flying site approved and wonder if Mr. Tougas understands that difficulty of the task he has set out to do. Not saying it cannot be done or even that it should not, but saying it and having even a broad plan on how to do it are two different things.


littlecrankshaf 08-25-2009 03:07 PM

RE: District X Election
 


ORIGINAL: Silent-AV8R






Being on the EC is not a ''hobby''. It is a serious commitment to being on the Board of Directors of a large membership organization with a multi-million dollar a year budget.



Gosh golly be…


HMMM...Maybe it is time to streamline the work load a bit.

The "reason" for older, more time able, directors of our hobby's only organization may need to be reconsidered...after all, we have had almost 75 years to get this machine working smoothly.

Getting younger blood in to find those ways may be the answer we have needed for much to long.

After all, it isn't that uncommon for someone to be on multiple BODs...given your reason, many must be derelict in their duties...for your point to have any merit what so ever.

abel_pranger 08-25-2009 08:56 PM

RE: District X Election
 


ORIGINAL: littlecrankshaf



ORIGINAL: Silent-AV8R



Being on the EC is not a ''hobby''. It is a serious commitment to being on the Board of Directors of a large membership organization with a multi-million dollar a year budget.



Gosh golly be…


HMMM...Maybe it is time to streamline the work load a bit.

The ''reason'' for older, more time able, directors of our hobby's only organization may need to be reconsidered...after all, we have had almost 75 years to get this machine working smoothly.

<snip>
Having mused on HC's comment "....Now if I don't say much more, it is because an endorsement from me, ref. AMA...," I'm inclined to agree with that reasoning.
The old men that run our organization, having BTDT when it comes to issues like regional flying sites can simply diss such notions because somebody tried that and failed. The proof is there; one attempt failed vs. no attempts that succeeded. Old men can see that clearly, why can't everybody?
Besides it involves as another poster observed "..being on the Board of Directors of a large membership organization with a multi-million dollar a year budget." I can relate to that, sharing experience similar to that with ltougas. As he has and I and peers in the technical project management arena have routinely handled multi-million dollar a year budgets comparable to AMA's in a perfunctory manner, it may seem easy...........but there's a catch: we didn't have the 'help' of a dozen peers, a CPA, a legal beagle or three, who-knows-how-many staffers and expert kibitzers, et al. All that help turns a minor, routine task on the sidelines into a disproportionately large and vexatious undertaking.

LT, give it up and leave running AMA to old men.

Abel

Silent-AV8R 08-25-2009 10:45 PM

RE: District X Election
 
No surprise, you missed the point again Abel. Sadly you see asking questions about how a candidate plans to execute his plans as "dissing". My comment about being on the EC was in response to LCS commenitng that this is a hobby, and for most of it is.

ltougas 08-26-2009 09:04 AM

RE: District X Election
 
Silent-AV8R & Red,
I understand that being the DVP is a large commitment. I can assure you I didn’t enter this race on a whim. I thought about what I had to offer and my other commitments and decided to throw my hat in the ring. I promise you I do not look at this Office as a hobby, but as a commitment to the 22,850 members of District X.

I understand that an attempt was made in the past to create a District X flying site. As I said earlier I am sure the people involved worked hard and went above and beyond the call of duty. The effort doesn’t have to stop there. If elected I would certainly discuss the issue with them so we could take away any lessons learned from the effort.

I disagree that the goal of an AMA flying site in the Western U.S. is unrealistic. As far as asking exactly where I want to put it or where the money to pay for it is today; and who will do the work; I think those are fair questions. I just think it is too early in the process to answer them. As I have said earlier one of my first actions would be to Chair a committee of District X members, and then through member input select a general area based on criteria that we as a group will decide on. As far as paying for it I see that as a combination of National AMA funds and fund raising that would have to be made in District X.

My message is that it would be one of my three long-term goals for District X. I am committing to these goals; I believe if you don’t set goals, and measure your progress against them you have no idea if you are moving in the right direction.

KidEpoxy 08-26-2009 09:49 AM

RE: District X Election
 
Mr Tougas
Here's a question for what you will do if elected:

In regards to the ParkPilotProgram subsidized moneypit,
will you work toward changing the plan AMA uses to have & pay for that venture?
How much should each $29 PPP member cost the AMA:
At or below $29?
$50?
$100?

I understyand if you dont have the numbers on hand,
so feel free to ask Muncie how much last years and this years PPP budgets are,
and how many PPP members that money was & is spent on
and mull it over before answering.

...and dont forget to ask if those budgets include the salaries of the PPP employees AMA has
(get them to tell you the salary total)

Silent-AV8R 08-26-2009 10:43 AM

RE: District X Election
 


ORIGINAL: ltougas

Silent-AV8R & Red,
I understand that being the DVP is a large commitment. I can assure you I didn’t enter this race on a whim. I thought about what I had to offer and my other commitments and decided to throw my hat in the ring. I promise you I do not look at this Office as a hobby, but as a commitment to the 22,850 members of District X.
I do not think either one of said that was the case. Another post mentioned that this is a hobby as a way of diminishing the argument that there is a large time commitment required for the position.



I disagree that the goal of an AMA flying site in the Western U.S. is unrealistic.
I am not saying it is unrealistic either. I am saying that it is a road well traveled and due consideration needs to be given to that fact to avoid wasting your time, or any one else's for that matter.


As far as asking exactly where I want to put it or where the money to pay for it is today; and who will do the work; I think those are fair questions. I just think it is too early in the process to answer them.
Perhaps, but they are also important in determining if this really is a realistic goal or not so I tend to think that they are, in fact, important questions to ask now. Otherwise you could end up spending a lot of time spinning your wheels and then potentially come to the conclusion that it really is unrealistic to try. That is why I am exploring the level of thought that has gone into proposing the venture.

Silent-AV8R 08-26-2009 10:46 AM

RE: District X Election
 
Let's switch gears for a moment. Have you been tracking the FAA's efforts towards their proposed sUAS rules? And if so, what are your thoughts on that front? How do you see the AMA moving forward once the FAA issues a NPRM, one that might be very restrictive to all of model aviation (i.e. a 400 foot hard altitude limit at all times and in all locations)?

littlecrankshaf 08-26-2009 02:31 PM

RE: District X Election
 


ORIGINAL: Silent-AV8R


Another post mentioned that this is a hobby as a way of diminishing the argument that there is a large time commitment required for the position.




Not quite right.

My response was to illuminate the position's primary focus, not the work load…all the while dispelling the notion "AMA DVP is a FULL time job!!!"


If that notion is actually true, something certainly needs fixing IMO.

Of course, maybe I am wrong and the "Job" should go to an older less encumbered individual as suggested by the guard…

ltougas 08-27-2009 08:56 AM

RE: District X Election
 
Silent-AV8R,
The Small Unmanned Aircraft System or sUAS rulemaking by the FAA is clearly a significant issue for the AMA and the membership. When you read the FAA documentation it’s clear that their primary motivation is to avoid collisions between manned and unmanned aircraft.

What do I think the AMA should do? I think they are taking the right steps by first being involved in the Aviation Rulemaking Committee or ARC. A review of the ARC’s recommendation shows that the ARC members are in favor of granting more latitude to Model Aircraft operations that are conducted in accordance with an FAA accepted set of standards established and administered by a community based association. In other words an organization like the AMA and its Safety Code meet that standard. I haven’t seen any indication that a, “400 foot hard altitude limit at all times and in all locations” is being proposed. That doesn’t mean it is not possible that the AMA safety code would not require additional requirements.

We need to always remember the motive is to reduce the chance of a collision with a manned aircraft. If the AMA hasn’t already documented all known collisions between R/C aircraft and manned aircraft they should. They should identify any trends and determine if they resulted from ignoring the safety code or a lapse in the safety code. If it is the latter action should be taken to enhance the safety code. Having this information would provide analytical data for the cause of the collision, and I hope document how rare it is so the situation is put in perspective. That data will be important when responding to the Notice of Proposed Rulemaking or NPRM. I respond to NPRM’s as part of my job. When the FAA receives responses they don’t give any weight to statements like, “this is unfair”, “we don’t need this rule”, and the like. They are looking for fact based responses that either disprove a point in the rule, or an alternative proposal that will result in the same level of safety. It sounds like the AMA is doing the right thing by reviewing the safety code, and preparing for the NPRM. We as members should be prepared to write our own responses to the NPRM, and to our legislature.

It is quite possible the AMA will need to add requirements to the safety code. I think a good one would be to require signage at fields alerting flyers of any known areas of manned flight in the area of the field. The AMA could start a new push to be vigilant about conflicts with manned aircraft, one that is featured in communication both written and on the internet. This could be similar to the membership drive that is now in full swing. That kind of proactive stance could not be faulted. In the end perhaps when we operate above some ceiling or speed an observer will be required to watch for conflicts with manned aircraft. We really don’t know it all depends on the NPRM.


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