GreatPlanes will start producing (?) { or old stock }

the Curtiss P6-E Hawk
&
JU-87 Stuka ARF's.

Here :

http://www3.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin/wti0001p?&P=PR&I=GPMA1219

http://www3.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin...=PR&I=GPMA1340

But look at their price..

OMg.

Y ou can get the ESM 1.20 size for that price......................a lot better deal.

Iwish I would have bought the Hawk when they were discounted when GP discontinued them the first time. Oh well, I hestiated and lost out.

The Stuka does seem a little pricy but look at the cost of other good quality, detailed warbirds in that size range. This one is comperable to others. Materials, labor, etc. are all getting more expensive unfortunately. Also consider what it would take to build that sort of plane on your own complete with covering, hardware, etc. $329 looks like a bargain compared to that.

ChuckW,

i don't believe ( always IMO )
that the GP JU-87

is a very detailed warbird...

A warbird ought to have an airfoil shapped elevators/rudders etc...

this doesn't...i think it is more of a sport model or stand off scale...

And ok....i think the price is too much for an ARF this size..

You do have a point there although the full-scale Stuka actually appears to have somewhat flat tail surfaces in many pictures. The prices of everything are going up though sadly.

I would like to have that P6 E, maybe for a little less $$.

I have flown the GP stuka arf and I will pass, it looks nice and flies OK, just not my thing.

Seesh! I think Ill just buy the big foam JU-87 due out next year. Heck, sorry to say it's more scale then the old GP one. Cheaper too!

I wouldn't even consider the Stuka semi scale. Whether or not the outlines are correct, it lacks almost all of the details that make a Stuka. The Moncote looks awful as well. For the price, I think building would be a much better option for the price. Sure, it might cost the same, but it would probably result in a far more realistic model.

The Hawk looks better, but it is still overpriced. These models just don't make todays standard.

What I think happened was Great Planes recieved much demand for these models to be released again (there have been plenty of threads on the topic) and decided to do just that. The market has changed. People buying ARFs these days demand more detail and quality, and are no longer willing to pay more for brand name when there are no name ARFs for half the price and twice the quality.

Perhaps they should have taken the airframe and updated it - better covering, more detail, etc....</p>

I was one of the people who pestered Great Planes to come back with the Stuka about 2 to 3 years ago. That was before ESM had their Stuka version on the market. KMP I think had them, but to me I felt they were way over priced.

To this day I have pestered Great Planes to come back out with the .60 Fokker DR1, because even with a few bad designs ( like the landing gear and CA Hinges for the rudder ) I feel that Great Planes had the best ARF Fokker DR1 on the market.

A used GP .60 Fokker DR1 is a collectors item, and still there is a good demand for them.

It is logical for GP to come back with these planes, but I agree that the Stuka is way over priced, I can get the ESM Stuka for less and is far better in the scale and detail department. JMHO

The P6 E is a collectors item like the Fokker DR1 and Ryan NYP ARF. I don't mind paying the money if no one else has a better model of these planes on the market.

I won't be buying the P6 E or Stuka, but I would buy the Fokker DR1 and or Ryan NYP if GP decided come back with these planes. [8D]



Pete

I flew both the DR1 and the Ryan STA years ago and they were both great fliers. I really like warbirds with fixed gear and always thought the Stuka would be fun, and was pretty excited to see it would be brought back, until I saw the price. Oh well maybe if they don't sell they'll lower the price.
I would like to see them bring back the .60 size Spacewalker also. I really liked mine.

Steve

The BH Stuka, for a few dollars more, is way nicer than the GP piece.

http://www.hobbypeople.net/index.php...-covering.html

I was looking at Tower Talk this morning, the price of the P6E is $100 more than the Stearman with the same size wing span. That is completely nuts in my opinion. $479 good grief are they out of their minds!
John

It is likely the price will come down once product is enroute from China. Higher GP prices before delivery are likely based on projected costs. Once on the dock costs can be refined.

However, that being said, the price may not change and we better get used to it. Costs are rising everywhere from China manufacturing plus shipping to your door. Also, specialty ARF's are going to cost more due to lower number ordered and container space used. These particular ARFs may be ordered in the hundreds where a 40 size sport ARF by the thousands.

Business is business. Many people don't understand the related costs.

If the price is too high, bottom line is don't buy it.

I refuse to "get used to" Hobbico/Tower's ever higher, completely unjustifiable prices. I understand keeping up with inflation, but in case no one has noticed, a lot of the reason for a major decrease in retail sales is the fact that most credit card companies keep lowering the card's credit limit as the consumer pays down their balance. This means that there is no way to buy the product and the budget of the consumer is inflexible. If it can't go on the card, they can't buy it. So the idiots selling our toys raise the prices above inflation anyway and then wonder why they have no sales. It takes an MBA to think in such a manner.


Ed Cregger

I understand costs having been in business the last 40 years. I also understand with pricing like this I'll build my own. It is one heck of an incentive. Perhaps it is just sticker shock. Building my own might actually cost more in the long run but it is spread out over time. I guarantee I won't buy with prices at this level. They are just insane.
John

The price of the Stuka is a bit expensive, yes. It looks to me like they are targeting people looking for their first warbird, and need something that has docile flight characteristics. In that since, I would say it's worth it. Keep in mind that it used to be a $250.00 ARF about 10 years ago, so essentially, the price increased with inflation. I don't blame Great Planes, I blame our current monetary policy. Get used to higher prices in the future.

Also: It's about time that SOMEBODY came out with a Stuka that the rest of use can build and fly, from a well known company that offers readily available parts. It may be expensive, but I wouldn't hesitate to buy it knowing that it's fixable should something break.

NorfolkSouthern

Anyone in business understands what is going on but consumers usually don't and think the seller is jacking them around. That may be true in some instances but not all.

I agree somewhat with Mr. Cregger above concerning MBA's thinking process but to stay in business one needs to retain a profit margin. Many US businesses are operating on slimmer margins than a year ago, others ran out of margin and closed up (re: The Webra engine manufacturer just announced it is bankrupt and now closed).

If Hobbico provided a breakdown of expenses (and profit margin) involved in the current priced $479.00 P-6E ARF it would stagger the imagination of anyone with a brain. Others will deny the reality or simply believe they are getting screwed.

Several friends and I have discussed the rising ARF prices (none of us is surprised) and where the point is reached that building from a kit becomes practical and possibly less expensive for the larger models. For example, I believe I could build a TF giant P-51 kit to the RTC stage for less money than it's current price and probably equal the ARF price.

I predicted the rising prices when ARFs were in their infancy. I'm glad to have a stash of kits in various scales and types, 40-50 rolls of Monokote, numerous spinners, wheels, tanks, hinges, clevis', etc., most of which was purchased at close out or give away prices at hobby shops or swap meets. All of these vendors or individuals couldn't clear this stuff out fast enough to make room for ARF's.

Fortunately I grew up in this hobby where building was the only way to have a finished plane. Many in this hobby will downsize or move on because they don't know how and don't want to learn.

Dick,
I've only 30 rolls of monokote, etc. I'm not questioning their expenses or their need to make a profit to stay in business. I realize the dollar is getting pretty worthless. All I'm saying is it has finally reached a point where I feel enough is enough. I'll make my own.
John

We are in agreement.

I agree as well. Plus we take more pride in our planes when we take a lumber yard and turn it into a nice plane. I notice most people admire the kit plane way more than the ARF that shows up at events. ( Unless someone shows up with a custom ARF that was turned into a "One of a kind.") I've owned quite a few ARF aircraft and one I like very much.

BUT I'm restoring, modifying my Great Planes Fokker DR1 and I'm having a ball. It challenges my building skills enough to when ARF prices become too expensive, I'll have no fear in building my own. I guess I'm one of those gradual learners.

Also it feels good showing up at a AMA meeting with a plane you built from the ground up. The Ol'timers and the more experienced look at your building and covering techniques- then tell you, "Great Job!"

Believe me that's a great feeling.

I'm not bashing ARF aircraft, I like them. I'm just bashing the ARF prices and where most of them come from.


Pete

Ah, yes I forgot about the Spacewalker. I heard it was a very sweet flying airplane. Great Planes and Hanger 9 kind of reminds me of the auto companies in the United States- when they finally fix all the bugs and make a fantastic car, they quit producing it. [:@]

But some people don't believe the saying, " If it ain't broke..."


Pete

I'm still flying my GP Spacewalker. Get comments all the time at the field from guys wanting to get one ... I'm sure they could sell them again if they brought them back too.

Carl

I guess the question is marketing. Would you be willing to pay $100 more for a limited production run? With prices approaching $500 it is just to rich for my blood. Sig has 1/4 and 1/3 scale kits.

Blackhorse and Seagull both have ARFs.

http://www.horizonhobby.com/Products...ProdID=SEA2050 40 size
http://www.hobbypeople.net/index.php...html?limit=all 120 size

John

Part of it too is consumer expectation.

Arf's are seen as a somewhat commodity item where the consumer wants all sorts of support, return, fixes, etc.

This increases the overhead and people involved, which must be factored into the prices.

Horizon and Hobbico tend to be quite good to their customers when it comes to support, but that has to be paid for somewhere, in part leading to the higher prices from them.


The Arf's mentioned as being better and cheaper, normally do not come with the same levels of customer support.

Many consumers forget this when making the comparison, or later complain about a lower cost vendor who does not provide parts, as Hobbico does.

Hobbico's planes may not be as detailed as a KMP plane, but you do get better parts availability.... and we see a price disparity.

Though in this case I am concerned about the "limited run" entry in the advertizing and it's implications.

You have a point. In my position at my job I see just how much the cost to keep operating is rising. It seems like every week something has gone up whether it is healthcare, energy, insurance, fuel or whatever. We absorb what we can but at some point we have to pass the increased costs along to the customer. We have no choice. If we cannot remain profitable we will be forced to close the doors. You cannot support employees and their families long while taking losses. The hobby manufacturers are no different. Their costs are going up too. The cost of goods from China is going up as well as the workers there demand higher pay, better conditions, better quality of life, etc. I am not saying I like it all but that's just how it is unfortunately. You also have to consider that these ARF's are not really mass-market products. They are not being made in huge numbers to supply every Wal-Mart and Home Depot store like a lot of inexpensive consumer products. They have a limited market; there are only so many of us doing this stuff. That affects the price.

To be honest, these newer planes are little pricy and it definitely makes me think more before purchasing one. Still they are a bargain if you consider the time and money it would take to build one yourself. I think we have all been spoiled a little by dirt-cheap ARF's for the past several years.

Again, I am not saying I am happy about some of the higher pricing. I just think it is more of a business and economic reality rather than a conspiracy by "greedy" hobby companies.
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