NCIS

I don't agree with the use of build when it comes to finishing a really complicated ARF. I think they should refer to it instead of Build to Completetion instead. Build in my opinion starts out with wood and thats all. Cut it make it and build it. Now thats a true build not a complicated Completion of an ARF or a kit witrh a fiberglass fuse no matter how much work it may be. Am I wrong or on the right track? I think modelers that are completeing ARFS should get they due share of recognition but they didtn't really build the complete plane. I think this also goes for those that buy a fiberglass fuse and just build the rest. They are Completing it but not building from the very beginning where mistakes and planning are needed. Their wing and stab incidence is already dialed in for them on glass fuses and ARFS. This is just an example. I hope I haven't started a WAR!!!

JMHO,

Barry

hornplayer99

I really think you are stirring the pot on purpose. You do it to get attention. You can go as far as to say you are not actually building the planes you started because you are using some else plans.

People come up with this stuff to start trouble!!! You are worrying about labels. Build, Completion. So What. Do I get more brownie points for whichever one I do?? No!! Take pride in whatever you do. Some younger guys just don't have the time or the skill and you want to throw out a label.. Some have families and just have enough time to work a few minutes a day. Maybe their disabled and can't do the small stuff or detailed stuff...

Just do your build or your completion and don't worry about what other call theirs!

David010567

My Feedback: (2)

This thread makes me think of only one word... TOOL

invertmast

My Feedback: (23)

Just because a person chooses a fiberglass fuselage doesnt mean its a "completion". There is also no gaurantee that the wing and stab incidence is correct. They must still be checked. I know of more fiberglass fuse builds that require MORE work to build than a built up fuselage.

But going on your philosophy, i guess anyone who buys their retracts, servos, engines, batteries, etc are all cheaters and should call their build threads completion threads to.

Honeslty, WHO cares what you/they call it. Enjoy the hobby for what it is supposed to be.. ie a good relaxing hobby

Mk23socom

My Feedback: (7)

I thought the idea of this hobby was to have fun?? I have done kits, arfs, and a few RTF planes I bought from a guy and the guys Iplay with dont really care where it came from or how it came to be.. they just like to fly baby!

Chip_Mull

My Feedback: (1)

"NCIS" Really??

Ramstein44

My Feedback: (157)

When I look at my SIST FW190's... Having that fiberglass fuse and all those parts, It's hardly an ARF!!! Just because most of the parts are identifiable out of the box doesn't mean it's any less complicated then wood kits. And honestly, I've built several wooden kits faster than many of my fiberglass builds.

Dash7ATP

I have to agree. I did a build on my Yellow Aircraft P-47 and finished it last August. I could have built a Top Flight P-47 in less time! The fuselage came in two parts that had to be joined. I completely replaced the gear mounting pads in the wings, and made my own fiberglass gear doors. Don't tell me I didn't build it just because it started with a fiberglass shell!

The whole point in these fourms is to have a place to discuss common problems, ask and provide answers to questions, and to inform others of techniques we may be using. I don't give a darn what someone wants to call it, if you are building an ARF or building from plans, we can all learn something from how you might do it.

Dash

Experten109/40

My Feedback: (-1)

..

chistech

I BUILD a lot of my aircraft from plans and kits. I also ASSEMBLE a lot of ARF's and I agree somewhat with your terminology. If a kit has foam wings that need to be sheeted or a glass fuse that needs to be painted and have additional work done to it, then it is still building in my eyes (A Byron P51 is a good example). Today's world is one of instant gratisfaction and most will not put in the effort to build even if they have the time. When you bring up assembling an ARF is not the same as building, some get defensive when they really shouldn't. The hobby has changed and so should the terminology. I was just talking tonight with a senior member of our club who was on the USS Hornet during the war in the Pacific. In between flying his sorties in the F6F Hellcat, he built model airplanes in the state room he shared with three other pilots to help forget what was going on. He said he would think of building his models on his way back from missions to help pass the time. If this man could find a place and the time to build than anyone can! Of course, there were no ARFs back then. If you BUILD your house it means it was built board by board. There other ways to have a home erected, then the terminology gets changed to MODULAR or MANUFACTURED HOME. So the terminology changed in the housing industry why can't it change in modeling. Like others here are saying, the hobby is for fun and if someone is a builder, he is a builder. If someone puts together a pre-made airframe then in actuality, he is an assembler and don't get mad about the terminology. I have posted "BUILD" threads of ARFs in the past and later realized it's not really a build thread so I thinks it's nothing more than people using the wrong wording when describing what they have done. I have seen some guys who insist they are builders but at the same time admit that they would never open a box full of "sticks" and put it together. Their next comment is "it's too much work" yet they insist they are "builders"! If you take a ARF and change things on it to make it more scale like (ie, war birds) then you are really detailing it, or accurizing it, not building it. This debate will go on and on because of people's interpretations and opinions but hell, let's have fun and not worry about it. I still like anyone in the hobby no matter what they call themselves as long as they are good people!

F4u5

My Feedback: (81)

Oh Man here we go....I build 'em all, even a few ARF's over the years. Try building a Clark Spitfire with a "Glass Fuse". That one took me longer than it took to get my 13 foot Corsair in the air. Or my (Frankenschmidt) Me109, with an American Eagle "Glass Fuse" and an enlarged wood wing plan from Claude Baskin plans and tail section from a Dave Platt plans. Trust me the glass fuse saved only a small fraction of time on the fuse, but I made it up on the time I spent creating the rest of it. I had to set the wing and tail incidence on that one purely from experience. You may want to re-think that one "Glass Fuse" statement for sure. Above poster make a good point on the Yellow Kits as well, I have "BUILT" 5 of those. I make no comments good or bad concerning ARF's, rather only that I do not typically take to them myself. I think you lit the fuse. Hornplayer may have nailed it in his opening salvo:

jeff naul

My Feedback: (16)

Barry come on dude..

Have you guy's ever noticed The guy that lazer cut's for him was an idiot, the guys that didn't build his cowl molds were idiots. the guys selling canopy rails were robbing us blind so you open a rail business. then you put a post threatening to close because we weren't buying enough rails and there wasn't enough money in it. Then the guys in Florida are building bigger p-47's than your Corsair so it goes up for sale and you announce plans for a bigger Corsair. Not enough attention, now this...

F4u5

My Feedback: (81)

Dear Jeff

Jeff

mick15

I find myself in complete agreement with the thread starter, how you can say fitting an engine and installing a few servos is "building" a model airplane bewilders me.

In fact it is actually an insult to people who still do "build" models. I spent two and a half years building a Jerry Bates SeaFury and it's still not completely finished! I can assemble an ARF and fly it in less than a week.

jmo m

Thunderbolt47

My Feedback: (8)

Barry has cabin fever

Brad330l

My Feedback: (1)

I agree with Mick some what (dont know about the insult though. Some people might take it pretty hard).
I do however totally disagree with the fiberglass fuselage side of things from NCIS. I have only built two wooden warbirds and am 99% done with my Yellow Spitfire and I consider this a build as much as the others. I have, as have others modified the fuselage and had to totally fit out the internals and most other bits and pieces in the kit. This needs to be done to a standard just as if you were to 'build' the long middle bit (fuselage) from sticks and there is some great scope to mess it up big time if you do not plan ahead or have some skills.

I personally believe threads like this should go into the 'Clubhouse'section of the forums so as to keep this forum about what we all love. Built, put together, what ever,,,WARBIRDS.

Brad

carlbecker

My Feedback: (3)

You are certainly entitled to your opinion. Personally I build off of plans or I enlarge plans. I use a fiberglass fuse sometimes. I will make a canopy or cowl if needed or cut my own wood. IMHO ARF's are assembled. I have seen the SisT FW-190. IMHO it is not a build or an ARF although it does make a very pretty plane with some amazing detail. There are similiar kits around also. In the end it is what makes you happy. I am not joyed by flying ARF's, I do enjoy flying something with a SOUL. I don't go for common planes either, no Mustangs, P-47's or Corsairs. As long as other pilots are happy doing what ever they enjoy then that is fine by me. It is a big world and hopefully we are all different!

G-Pete

Stultus quoque, si tacuerit, sapiens reputabitur.


The fool, too, if he can just keep quiet, will be considered a wise man.

pmerritt

My Feedback: (118)

Barry needs a blow up doll!

pmerritt

My Feedback: (118)

垂れぶたがその舌が好きである男しばしばゴキブリ触角人のくつの下に終わります

The destiny of a man whose tongue waves like a cockroaches antenna will often be the bottom of someone's shoe.

tunakuts3d

It appears that the originator of this thread is buying into the "POLITICALLYCORRECT" labeling B^##$*&T that is so prevalent nowadays.WHOCARES! Build,finish, assemble, whatever.Take what you like in the ideas and methods that are posted and leave what you dont like.Sharing our info and methods is what I thought RCU was about ,not LABELS!
Paul

Joespeeder

Don't normally get sucked into these threads.... But ok I'll bite.

I've decide to do a new stick build. I've got lots of time to decide what it'll be since I just ordered the parts from here.

http://www.amazon.com/Balsa-Wood-Tre...ata/B000UZF19U

I should have a nice plane in about a decade or two.

I have respect for anyone that is "Building" and learning at whatever level they can or wish to. Some spectacular talent out there working on all types of aircraft and some using all styles of build to learn their craft. More power to both. Call it what you want but celebrate it and enjoy their enjoyment of the hobby.

Joe

Can't wait for my new kit to get here!!

tunakuts3d

Now thats what A true scratch builder should do! But make sure you make your own compost and raise your own worms for worm castings, non of this store bought premixed compost stuff lest someone accuse you of not being a true "Builder". Oh, better get a cow or horse for real manure also. Will you start a thread and post some pics of your progress?
Paul

wingspar

My Feedback: (3)

Joe, do you plan on mining the ore needed to make your engine??

Dave

Walt Thyng

My Feedback: (9)

I consider myself a "builder." I've struggled with this whole issue of "ARF"s for a number of years, then recently I saw a magnificent Sopwith Camel at my local field. The details were incredible right down to the wicker seat and stick that moved with the controls. I asked the owner if it was scratch built or a kit. He replied that it was a Hangar 9 ARF! I was stunned. The owner/pilot /(builder?) had gone to incredible lengths to upgrade and personalize this ARF. I asked him why he didn't just start from a kit. His answer has changed my ideas on ARFs. "Building airframes has become boring for me after 40 plus years of modeling, but I really enjoy the challenge of adding scale detail. Sometimes you have to be very creative because there isn't any off-the-shelf stuff."

I can relate to his feelings. I can't remember the last time I read the building instructions for a kit. Once I look at the plans, I pretty much know how to proceed.

So who is the true builder, somebody who slaps together a kit while displaying no imagination or someone who skillfully details out and ARF? I know my answer.
Walt