When a transaction goes bad?
04-12-2011 | 08:44 PM
#1
Thread Starter
When a transaction goes bad?
I have this one neighbor whom I recently met, who has a similar interest in the R/C hobby. I took a couple planes over to him, and he helped me build one ARF, and also repaired another that had a leaky fuel tank. He had recently obtained a large Yak with a DA-50 engine, and also was wanting a Great Planes Extra 300 I had, along with an OS .81 four-stroke. For the time he spent with my other planes, I felt that his offer of $450.00 for the plane and engine was very reasonable. But, I was not going to give him the items until he had the funds.
Here is where it got difficult: He kept bothering me daily asking me when I was going to give him the Extra so that he could get started on it. Him and his wife remained friendly the whole time. But then, he started arguing with me about a couple servos he "gave" me so I could fly the small Giles ARF he helped me build from the kit. He continued to belittle me over the Extra for a week, until finally I felt I had no choice but to give it to him, so he would keep his mouth shut. It, and the OS 81 engine both. Meanwhile, He continued to promise me he would pay me "by the end of the week". I am not sure if I trust him anymore, and since he built the plane and flew it once, he no longer seems so open and inviting.
I have his vehicle license plate, know where he lives, and I also know the club that he is a member of. I am wondering if I should report the model and engine to the police as stolen, or should I give it more time? I knew I should not have trusted him, but I also had some bad dealings with another neighbor of mine, and almost lost my apartment because of it. The landlord told me that I would have to move out if there was ONE more complaint about me from another resident, so I'm on probationary status in that regard. Part of why I gambled with this plane and neighbor, was to keep the situation from getting to the point where I could lose my place to live over a complaint to the landlord by him. In the end, I decided that I would rather lose a $500.00 plane and engine, rather than risk friction with yet another resident and lose my home over it. Any advice would be appreciated. Thanks.
NorfolkSouthern
Here is where it got difficult: He kept bothering me daily asking me when I was going to give him the Extra so that he could get started on it. Him and his wife remained friendly the whole time. But then, he started arguing with me about a couple servos he "gave" me so I could fly the small Giles ARF he helped me build from the kit. He continued to belittle me over the Extra for a week, until finally I felt I had no choice but to give it to him, so he would keep his mouth shut. It, and the OS 81 engine both. Meanwhile, He continued to promise me he would pay me "by the end of the week". I am not sure if I trust him anymore, and since he built the plane and flew it once, he no longer seems so open and inviting.
I have his vehicle license plate, know where he lives, and I also know the club that he is a member of. I am wondering if I should report the model and engine to the police as stolen, or should I give it more time? I knew I should not have trusted him, but I also had some bad dealings with another neighbor of mine, and almost lost my apartment because of it. The landlord told me that I would have to move out if there was ONE more complaint about me from another resident, so I'm on probationary status in that regard. Part of why I gambled with this plane and neighbor, was to keep the situation from getting to the point where I could lose my place to live over a complaint to the landlord by him. In the end, I decided that I would rather lose a $500.00 plane and engine, rather than risk friction with yet another resident and lose my home over it. Any advice would be appreciated. Thanks.
NorfolkSouthern
04-13-2011 | 12:18 AM
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From: Mumbai, INDIA
RE: When a transaction goes bad?
Its actually a PR (public relations) issue and I doubt anyone would give you and advice on this matter. Best would be you confront your neighbour and ask him in a calm and controlled manner as to when he is going to pay for the model. Let him know your side of the coin. It doesnt hurt to try. You can also speak to your landlord and appraise him of the issue beforehand so he doesnt have any misconceptions.
In our culture, we advocate never to bring money into friendships for this reason
Ameyam
In our culture, we advocate never to bring money into friendships for this reason
Ameyam
04-13-2011 | 02:52 AM
#3
RE: When a transaction goes bad?
ORIGINAL: NorfolkSouthern
I have this one neighbor whom I recently met, who has a similar interest in the R/C hobby. I took a couple planes over to him, and he helped me build one ARF, and also repaired another that had a leaky fuel tank. He had recently obtained a large Yak with a DA-50 engine, and also was wanting a Great Planes Extra 300 I had, along with an OS .81 four-stroke. For the time he spent with my other planes, I felt that his offer of $450.00 for the plane and engine was very reasonable. But, I was not going to give him the items until he had the funds.
Here is where it got difficult: He kept bothering me daily asking me when I was going to give him the Extra so that he could get started on it. Him and his wife remained friendly the whole time. But then, he started arguing with me about a couple servos he ''gave'' me so I could fly the small Giles ARF he helped me build from the kit. He continued to belittle me over the Extra for a week, until finally I felt I had no choice but to give it to him, so he would keep his mouth shut. It, and the OS 81 engine both. Meanwhile, He continued to promise me he would pay me ''by the end of the week''. I am not sure if I trust him anymore, and since he built the plane and flew it once, he no longer seems so open and inviting.
I have his vehicle license plate, know where he lives, and I also know the club that he is a member of. I am wondering if I should report the model and engine to the police as stolen, or should I give it more time? I knew I should not have trusted him, but I also had some bad dealings with another neighbor of mine, and almost lost my apartment because of it. The landlord told me that I would have to move out if there was ONE more complaint about me from another resident, so I'm on probationary status in that regard. Part of why I gambled with this plane and neighbor, was to keep the situation from getting to the point where I could lose my place to live over a complaint to the landlord by him. In the end, I decided that I would rather lose a $500.00 plane and engine, rather than risk friction with yet another resident and lose my home over it. Any advice would be appreciated. Thanks.
NorfolkSouthern
I have this one neighbor whom I recently met, who has a similar interest in the R/C hobby. I took a couple planes over to him, and he helped me build one ARF, and also repaired another that had a leaky fuel tank. He had recently obtained a large Yak with a DA-50 engine, and also was wanting a Great Planes Extra 300 I had, along with an OS .81 four-stroke. For the time he spent with my other planes, I felt that his offer of $450.00 for the plane and engine was very reasonable. But, I was not going to give him the items until he had the funds.
Here is where it got difficult: He kept bothering me daily asking me when I was going to give him the Extra so that he could get started on it. Him and his wife remained friendly the whole time. But then, he started arguing with me about a couple servos he ''gave'' me so I could fly the small Giles ARF he helped me build from the kit. He continued to belittle me over the Extra for a week, until finally I felt I had no choice but to give it to him, so he would keep his mouth shut. It, and the OS 81 engine both. Meanwhile, He continued to promise me he would pay me ''by the end of the week''. I am not sure if I trust him anymore, and since he built the plane and flew it once, he no longer seems so open and inviting.
I have his vehicle license plate, know where he lives, and I also know the club that he is a member of. I am wondering if I should report the model and engine to the police as stolen, or should I give it more time? I knew I should not have trusted him, but I also had some bad dealings with another neighbor of mine, and almost lost my apartment because of it. The landlord told me that I would have to move out if there was ONE more complaint about me from another resident, so I'm on probationary status in that regard. Part of why I gambled with this plane and neighbor, was to keep the situation from getting to the point where I could lose my place to live over a complaint to the landlord by him. In the end, I decided that I would rather lose a $500.00 plane and engine, rather than risk friction with yet another resident and lose my home over it. Any advice would be appreciated. Thanks.
NorfolkSouthern
04-13-2011 | 05:32 AM
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From: winston,
MO
RE: When a transaction goes bad?
yeah take him to small claims court.
I don't know your laws but in Mo you can also recover attorney fee's and put a garnishment on his paycheck, That 500 plane may cost him 1500 to 2000 by the time you tack on laywer fees.
I don't know your laws but in Mo you can also recover attorney fee's and put a garnishment on his paycheck, That 500 plane may cost him 1500 to 2000 by the time you tack on laywer fees.
04-13-2011 | 05:39 AM
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From: Billingsley, AL
RE: When a transaction goes bad?
This sounds more like a debt collection issue since it was delivered with an agreement for later payment. Small claims courts are full of this type of situation. You can call the courthouse and ask what the filing fee for small claims is. Used to be about $25 in my county. More than that now I imagine. Don't need a lawyer but he will be served by the process server. Might get his attention. A settlement in your favor will let you garnish his wages, BUT that takes a lawyer and might cost more than it is worth. Also make sure your story is straight because there is no paperwork for either side.
04-13-2011 | 12:33 PM
#6
RE: When a transaction goes bad?
Idon't think it is "stolen" in the eyes of the law.
That is an exchange for service: plane for silence. You gave it to him. If you take it to small claims court it will be a he said/you said on whether the nmodel was an exchange for earlier services in the ARF build. It will just get ugly.
Next time, either write it down as a signed and dated contract or just accept that some folks are garbage and do these things.
I felt I had no choice but to give it to him, so he would keep his mouth shut.
Next time, either write it down as a signed and dated contract or just accept that some folks are garbage and do these things.
04-13-2011 | 04:56 PM
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From: North Syracuse,
NY
RE: When a transaction goes bad?
My experience in small claims court is: 1) You can win if you have the documentation. 2) Even though you won, you may never be able to collect a dime. There's nothing that will compel the other party to pay. The court can force them to return your property, but there's nothing to prevent them from trashing it before they give it back.
You mentioned that he offered you 450.00 for the plane and motor. Did you ever get it in writing? Did anyone ever witness him offering to pay you next week?Have the "I'll pay you next week" stopped? If so, it's a good bet that he isn't planning on paying for it.
You also mentioned that he belongs to a club. You may be able to approach one of the club officers about the situation. They may be in a position to help. It happened in our club a while ago. The individual reneged on replacement of another member's plane after a shoot down. His club share was confiscated and he was removed from the club. How much digging and footwork are you willing to invest in going after this guy? The county courthouse is a treasuretrove of information. It's legal to look at and will give you some idea of whether or not it's worth pursuing this person in small claims. They may have a long list of outstanding judgements against them. In New York, this allows you to collect three times the award if they fail to pay. All of the names of the outstanding judgements are there too. In NYS there's nothing preventing you from contacting them and going after this person collectively. That alone may be enough to scare the poop out of this guy and he'll pay you to shut up.
Lastly- don't allow yourself to get bullied into a situation like this. Your stuff is your stuff. Get it in writing if someone wants it and for how much. They may back down if they know that you mean business. AN honest person will appreciate that as well. 450.00 may be the right price for this kind of life lesson. I've paid my dues.
You mentioned that he offered you 450.00 for the plane and motor. Did you ever get it in writing? Did anyone ever witness him offering to pay you next week?Have the "I'll pay you next week" stopped? If so, it's a good bet that he isn't planning on paying for it.
You also mentioned that he belongs to a club. You may be able to approach one of the club officers about the situation. They may be in a position to help. It happened in our club a while ago. The individual reneged on replacement of another member's plane after a shoot down. His club share was confiscated and he was removed from the club. How much digging and footwork are you willing to invest in going after this guy? The county courthouse is a treasuretrove of information. It's legal to look at and will give you some idea of whether or not it's worth pursuing this person in small claims. They may have a long list of outstanding judgements against them. In New York, this allows you to collect three times the award if they fail to pay. All of the names of the outstanding judgements are there too. In NYS there's nothing preventing you from contacting them and going after this person collectively. That alone may be enough to scare the poop out of this guy and he'll pay you to shut up.
Lastly- don't allow yourself to get bullied into a situation like this. Your stuff is your stuff. Get it in writing if someone wants it and for how much. They may back down if they know that you mean business. AN honest person will appreciate that as well. 450.00 may be the right price for this kind of life lesson. I've paid my dues.
04-13-2011 | 07:07 PM
#8
Thread Starter
RE: When a transaction goes bad?
Thanks for your thoughts. Taking this to a court would not be a good option, for the amount is so small I would most likely cost more to go that route anyway. And as others have said, reporting it could bring on some very serious repercussions. Add to the perils of a lost potential friendship. I will take the debt collector's point of view that something is better than nothing. I did manage to get a portion of the amount owed, and then hope that the rest can balance out later, perhaps. And if I get the full amount eventually, then it would be a win/win situation for both: Him getting a good deal on something he has been wanting, and my getting back most of what I originally paid, so I can start working on other projects.
NS
NS
04-14-2011 | 05:09 AM
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From: winston,
MO
RE: When a transaction goes bad?
My brother once took a repair shop to small claims for 500 dollars, it cost him 75 for the filing fee which he also ask for in the complaint and got.
Once a judgment has been made, if not paid goes against his credit score and of course here in Missouri a 500 debt can turn into a 2000 debt if it gets turned over to an attorney for collection.
Once a judgment has been made, if not paid goes against his credit score and of course here in Missouri a 500 debt can turn into a 2000 debt if it gets turned over to an attorney for collection.
04-14-2011 | 03:28 PM
#12
RE: When a transaction goes bad?
ORIGINAL: NorfolkSouthern
Thanks for your thoughts. Taking this to a court would not be a good option, for the amount is so small I would most likely cost more to go that route anyway. And as others have said, reporting it could bring on some very serious repercussions. Add to the perils of a lost potential friendship. I will take the debt collector's point of view that something is better than nothing. I did manage to get a portion of the amount owed, and then hope that the rest can balance out later, perhaps. And if I get the full amount eventually, then it would be a win/win situation for both: Him getting a good deal on something he has been wanting, and my getting back most of what I originally paid, so I can start working on other projects.
NS
Thanks for your thoughts. Taking this to a court would not be a good option, for the amount is so small I would most likely cost more to go that route anyway. And as others have said, reporting it could bring on some very serious repercussions. Add to the perils of a lost potential friendship. I will take the debt collector's point of view that something is better than nothing. I did manage to get a portion of the amount owed, and then hope that the rest can balance out later, perhaps. And if I get the full amount eventually, then it would be a win/win situation for both: Him getting a good deal on something he has been wanting, and my getting back most of what I originally paid, so I can start working on other projects.
NS
When I sell something that I am truly concerned about I print out two bill of sale docs then get the party to sign both and a witness signature that the transaction took place. I have yet to have anyone pull away from paying that way and if so I have the legal grounds that I need in court.
If they want the item and don't have the money, I often work it out by them paying me payments and I HOLD THE GOODs until payment is made in full. Good business practices are important and even MORE important among friends. But then a true friend does not treat his friend wrongly. He treats his friend or anyone as he wants to be treated.
04-14-2011 | 05:56 PM
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From: Las Vegas,
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RE: When a transaction goes bad?
You have to give him a fair amount of time to pay up. If he said end of the week, I would wait no more than 3. After that, I would just go to the flying field and repo my plane. Take a couple of friends.
If he calls the cops, wait a year and then take him out into the woods a plant him.
If he calls the cops, wait a year and then take him out into the woods a plant him.
04-15-2011 | 07:42 AM
#14
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RE: When a transaction goes bad?
Take your knocks and move on. Consider the episode as a lost/crashed airplane where something was learned. Expectations are that you’re going to lose an airplane through many causes, dumb thumbs, dead sticks, mid-airs, etc.. Consider this as another cause, learn from it, and then move on.
Also, this person will one day get his comeuppance that will give you a healthy laugh. I always like to laugh out loud when someone I don’t like (and sometimes do like) crashes their plane at the club field. Maybe one day soon you’ll get that opportunity. Practice your “witch laugh”.
Also, this person will one day get his comeuppance that will give you a healthy laugh. I always like to laugh out loud when someone I don’t like (and sometimes do like) crashes their plane at the club field. Maybe one day soon you’ll get that opportunity. Practice your “witch laugh”.
