Hello,

Quick introduction with a question thrown in,

I'm a kind of ex rc plane/heli enthusiast coming back to the hobby after a few years out exploring the wonderful world of paragliding and paramotoring.

So on my come back Idusted off my old faithful model from the loft - a 60 size cessna cardinal (172?) bought maybe 8 years ago made by ARC aeromodelli. I think all the designs made by this company must have been bought out by thunder tiger as they now sell the whole range (Ready2, Cardinal and Jupiter (low winger)).

Anyway having not flown for a long time, I bought spektrum 2.4 gear and ripped out the old 35 meg stuff from the cessna. Fuelled her up and the 15+ year old OS60SXfired into life immediately (what a motor).

It flew like a dream this really is a great model, Ilove the moulded plastic material - it is indestructable and doesnt suffer from hanger rash at all, and the weight must be OKcos the model flies like a dream.

So my question is, why didnt this material catch on 10 years ago - i find it far superior to built up balsa / ply. I honestly think if a company was making models out of this id be very willing to spend much more on kits. This cessna has been bashed about, thrown in the car, left in the loft, and it looks as good as new.

In contrast Itreated myself to a World Models Tucano 60 ARTF and OS72 alpha. Built it over 3 weeks and maidened it today.The quality of the product is mediocre IMHO, and it was expensive. The thin balsa of the body is very fragile and I just thought how much better it would be if made from the same material as the cessna. I hate coming across compromises in quality in these far east ARFs. Id rather pay more and get better quality. It flew well though although I need to revisit the engine tuning.

Anyway, interested in any answers out there. Even if the answer is 'stop moaning you old git'.

AF.

Stop moaning you old Git, the most likely reason there isn't any others is because the otherChinese never got hold of one to copy.
Thunder Tiger holds a lot of control overa very large proportion of the RC airframemanufacturers, more than you realise in fact. Many of them dream of filling orders for them.

IMO, even thin balsa is more durable than ABS. It cracks, yellows, and becomes brittle in a fairly short time.

I have never cared for ABS parts and would always upgrade to fiberglass parts when available, as with Carl Goldberg models, as an example.

I never thought I'd see the day when someone actually wants a plastic model

Differant strokes for differant folks I suppose but what it comes down to for me is...I can rebuild a balsa/ply model far more readily before I could "fix" a plastic one. The plastic models I have seen in person were heavier as well. I do not have an ABS machine in the garage either lol.

I have an Aviomodelli Calypso MK 3. I think it's the last plane I'll ever build.

Are not the ASM models plastic skins over wood frames?

Fiberglass? I think!

I usually replace ABS part with fiberglass parts when they are available.

<!StartFragment><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:ArialMT;mso-ansi-language:EN-US;mso-fareast-language:EN-US">I also think ASM is ABS plastic at least on the fuselage.</span><!EndFragment>

Partial Quote from Hobby People description of the B17

<span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family: Arial; color: rgb(47, 47, 47); line-height: 18px; "><p style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0.8em; margin-left: 0px; padding-top: 0px; padding-right: 0px; padding-bottom: 0px; padding-left: 0px; "><strong style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; padding-top: 0px; padding-right: 0px; padding-bottom: 0px; padding-left: 0px; ">"Features[/b]</p><ul style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; padding-top: 0px; padding-right: 0px; padding-bottom: 0px; padding-left: 0px; list-style-type: none; list-style-position: initial; list-style-image: initial; "> <li style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; padding-top: 0px; padding-right: 0px; padding-bottom: 0px; padding-left: 0px; ">Plywood, Balsa, and Carbon Fibre Airframe with <span style="color: rgb(255, 0, 0); ">Moulded ABS Fuselage Skins</span> <li style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; padding-top: 0px; padding-right: 0px; padding-bottom: 0px; padding-left: 0px; ">Factory-Covered Wings / Tail Surfaces <li style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; padding-top: 0px; padding-right: 0px; padding-bottom: 0px; padding-left: 0px; ">Factory-Painted Fuselage, Wing/Tail Surfaces, Nacelles, and Cowls"[/list]</span>

The ABS planes that Thunder Tiger has were built ( mfg ) in Italy by Modelfly ( ARC ) and are very good planes. It's too bad they didn't catch on better when Falcon had them. I think it had a lot to do with the fact that new pilots couldn't repair them if they needed to. More experienced pilots didn't want plastic so the line didn't go over very well, which was a shame as they fly very well and with a little experience ( lack of damage ) they last a very long time. I've got one I've had for about 15 years and I still fly the crap out of it. In fact I've been thinking of getting another one, either the " Ready " or the Cessna 177 .

A lot of people also go back to when the plastic planes were quite brittle and did yellow pretty bad. These newer ones are quite flexable and take a lot of punishment, they can also be painted pretty easy so they don't yellow.

Just my point of view after owning and ENJOYING about 10 of them. ENJOY !!! RED

Thanks for the replies / opinions.

Yes thats right - it was an ARC model when I bought it. I have abused and neglected this model for years and years and it still looks spotless (apart from the hole I carved in the side about 5 years ago for aerial photography).

I flew it for a couple of years in a small field of mine where the only approach was downhill approaching 4 feet ovr a wall in between 2 trees often downwind and it almost flew itself in.

I really wish the ARC range was bigger, for my next model Id like a gas engine (os gt55) in a large tricycle model. I like the graupner robin. cant bring myself to buy anything at the moment but if it were the same ABS material as the cessna id buy it tomorrow.

But it kind of makes sense your point that it doesnt suit beginners due to lack of repairability. But to be honest i snapped one of the rear gear legs after a very hard landing and a local shop had a spare in stock! cant believe only one has broken in all this time of heavey arrivals.

Back in the 70s, there were quite a few of what I would call first generation ARF planes made of vacuum formed ABS or vinyl. Most of these planes had covered foam wings (either thin ABS sheet or wood) with a formed sheet plastic fuselage and cowl. Some had internal wood structures ... some only had wood where necessary. Many of these planes flew very well but all seemed to suffer from short life as they became brittle in the sunlight and cracks started to form in places that were impossible to repair. Some common brands were Lanier, DuBro and Pilot. Yes, DuBro use to produce airplane kits as well as helicopters! Early Lanier ARFs had a very soft vinyl wing covering. There were quite a few other companies that dabbled in this same sort of construction (with variations) over the decades.

SIG had a line of kits (not ARFs) that were so called quick builts that had sheeted foam wings with a sort of internal wood crutch in the fuselage that had formed ABS sides that attached to give the scale appearing shape. Their kits included a 60 sized Chipmunk, P-51, Cessna 150 and 172 and a smaller QM racer among others. Most flew fairly well but they were on the heavy side. SIG was a big user of ABS in most of their kit line and should be credited for using ABS plastic sheeting that was quite thick and durable compared to the very thin offerings of some other companies.

ABS is used in sewer drain pipe, black color; my calypso just feels like a durapattern plane. He probably would fly well, I'm just not impressed with high impact plastic. I suppose one could use ABS cement for repairs and dremel the scars out.

Not all ABS plastic ages this way.

There is "aircraft grade" ABS. I know little about it except it's offered in this great Corsair kit of yesteryear, that is the late 80's.

One would have to own this kit to appreciate the ABS parts not to mention the complete molded ABS Corsair fuselage.

The ABS is excellent for forming the gull-wing section of the Corsair. Makes building a snap!

Offered by GM Plastics Inc. and produced in limited quantities. I don't believe 30 Corsair kits were made.

The plans are to die for. Detail found only in actual aircraft drawings!

Wow! A whopping 71.75" in span, makes this fine scale model large, but not too large. Great size for engine choices also. .80 to 1.08 is suggested for two cycle and a 1.2 is recommended for for four cycle application!

This Corsair model has it all!!

UV rays from the sun are the enemy of bare ABS. Some ABS plastics are UV resistant but none are truly immune to the harming effects of the sun. Paint it with an ABS compatible paint and it is protected. Many paints also cause damage to ABS .... makes it quite brittle not unlike an egg shell. But, use the right paint and it has excellent durability. Good stuff overall but one needs to understand the material.

The planes Thunder Tiger is selling ( Modelfly / ARC ) can be painted with any automobile paint ( as long as it's fuel proof ). I painted one with a spray can ( auto touch up ) and it looked good till I finally had to retire it. I'm using "Krylon " on the Beaver I have now and it's been holding up for a lot of years, about 12 I think. By the way most of my time has been spent in the South and hot weather, NO cracking. ENJOY !!! RED

Thanks for all the opinions all. very intersting reading. In summary I actually suspect that modern ABS construction has not had mass exposure in the modern artf arena. I personally can find no disadvantages and plenty of advantages to this material. Maybe it just needs one of the bigger manufacturers to push this a bit harder (I realise ttr are selling these designs but not really pushing this material I feel).

Anyway Ill shut up now and leave with an unashamed plug for my latest paragliding vid.

http://www.vimeo.com/19864981

[quote]ORIGINAL: Truckracer

UV rays from the sun are the enemy of bare ABS. Some ABS plastics are UV resistant but none are truly immune to the harming effects of the sun. Paint it with an ABS compatible paint and it is protected. Many paints also cause damage to ABS .... makes it quite brittle not unlike an egg shell. But, use the right paint and it has excellent durability. Good stuff overall but one needs to understand the material.
[/quote)

I am not sure, but I think Armor-all will keep the plastic from getting brittle. At least in all my use...it has been great! Capt,n

I have a few NEW ABS ARFs.

While I like how they look repairs can be a big PITA.

I prefer ply and balsa, as this affords repairs that look better than new and are stronger too when properly done.

A guy at our field has one of those ABS Corsairs with a Quadra 35 in him. It's heavy but it flies really well and looks great in the air.