tailskid

My Feedback: (34)

I agree and disagree with you on this topic Azzir325....from a modeler's point of view I too would like a right wing panel to my ARF that I bought NIB from the manuacturer back in 2009....but it isn't going to happen. From a Manufacturers point of view - they sell "X" number of ARF's to a distributor (GP/Horizon, etc). So they (distributor) sets aside 5 models for 'parts'.....within a short period of time all right wings panels are sold, but only right wing panels....now they have 5 'incomplete' ARF's all missing one wing panel - what do they do with them? Keep them forever - so they do...and now I want a right wing panel - what can they do since they bought all the ARF's back in 2008 and the company that made them are out of business?

Problems on both ends - distributors would LOVE to see me a right wing panel for $95 (when the whole ARF cost $159) but they don't have one and can't get one.

Your solution?

Me, I'd have to build a new wing panel if I wanted to fly that plane agan.

Jerry

Ercoupe N99879

Some of my RC flying buddies always were saying to me, why build from a kit or scratch build anymore?
Well first of all I am 61 years old now and grew up building kits. I enjoy it!
I also love to scratch build and I could foresee the day parts for ARF's wouldn't be available, epsecially those made in China.

A lot of kit manufacturers have fallen by the wayside, but I constanty perouse Ebay, etc for kits and have been building up a stash for when I retire. I think I have ay least 30 kits now
SIG, IKONNWST, Great PLanes, and some that no longer exist, BUT I have the plans that came with the kits!
Being a scartch builder, making new or spare parts is easily done with a little time in my shop.

My condolences to all you guys who bought ARF's for which parts no longer can be had!
The first thing I noted about ARF's?
They did not come with plans!
BIG RED FLAG!!!

I do have one ARF
But it is a carbon copy of a plans built Taylorcraft offered by RCM plans!
How do I know?
I bought two and took all the covering off of one and spent some time reverse engineering it!
Well look here, this elevator and stab is an exact fit for my 1/4 scale plans Taylorcraft from RCM
< gosh so is the wing, and so is everything else!

So parts for these airplanes can easily be made!
As American made kit companies fall by the wayside I do more plans built scratch building

m

Jacobs Jasta 7

And you don't think the name calling is constructive? To most of us what you just wrote is not improving the situation.

With respect I think you might be wrong.

A replacement wing or fuse for a ARF can run up to $75-$150 depending on the ARF, maybe more. To me $100 is a chunk of change for a replacement stock part IMO. Again, (like a broken record- or a parrot on prozac) having some money coming in is better than no money coming in at all. All manufactures and distributors are in the red right now, and are desperate to sell things quickly, that's why I assume they are making electric foam aircraft like crazy and not making so many glow/gas type aircraft. It's cheap, they sell in high quanities and they make a quick profit.

Not deminishing the electric pilots out there, but like someone said earlier, "It's about money." I agree with Azzir, there was a time when he and I were young kids, and remember the hobby when people who sold us the kits, ARFs and RTF aircraft were themselves in the hobby. Now they have been replaced with a bunch of snot nose running allergetic pencil pushers from Wall Street.

These companies, manufactures and distributors would be less likely be stuck in the red if they continued to produce the parts for their discontinued products for a period of time after the product has been discontinued. It's simple 101 in business that most business colleges don't get. Some income is better than no income at all. Period! Another thing that businesses don't get, is if it works- leave it alone. Many of the ARF aircraft have been great hits and everyone of them sold out and people are sucking up the leftover parts. Why the H. E. (double toothpicks) would they discontinue it? Makes no sense to me.

The whole problem is the world is changing to the China trade and business practices, and it's not based on the traditional American business practices. The traditional American business practice is to find what the customer wants, make them feel they need it, sell and endorse the product, give good customer service and customer support for the product until it no longer sells. Keeping customers is the #1 priority. And that is done by having exceptional customer service and customer support.

China it is done differently. It's about flooding the market with a product, they tell you what you want ie- you buy you like, manipulate the currency, ( that gets rid of competitors) discontinue item, customer tough luck, no customer support for product. Make it a throw away society so that people no longer repair things, in that it forces people to continue buying new all the time. That's the difference between a Capitalistic and a Socialistic business.

American businesses has forgot the number one rule, and that is to care about what the customers want. Without us, there would be no business. That's why I don't believe that one business should have a large monopoly over a product. Also American busnesses has forgotten quality. To keep a loyal customer you need quality, not quantity. I buy things because they last, not because they are cheap.

Ask Fiberglass Specialties, if he makes a good profit just making the cowls and wheel pants for discontinued kits and ARF aircraft? He told me business is somewhat good the last time I talked to him a few years ago. But unforunately, he doesn't make stock replacement parts other than what he already makes, and Hanger 9 and Greatplanes doesn't give up the scale drawings so one of us could manufacture the parts for ourselves.

So again, that puts the average Joe in the bind. That's what this topic is mainly about. Believe me, if Hanger 9 and Greatplanes gave me the drawings, I'd take a buisness loan and start making the products and buy the molds. But again we all know Greatplanes and Hanger 9, as soon a production starts off anything that belongs to them, they would want a percentage right off the top because they own the rights. And that percentage could bankrupt me if we think about it. So Hanger 9 and Greatplanes has the monopoly over their aircraft, so the question to make the parts isn't relevant to the topic of this discussion.


Now on the rest of this thread:


Guys, quit the name calling please. We should all be adult about this, and stop the insults. We are ALL entitled to a opinion. The name calling only hurts the one that's throwing the insults, so if you have something constructive the say, then I would keep the negitive comments to oneself and share only what is constructive to the topic.

I too know how to build from scratch and like to build a kit from time to time. Just because I do so doen't make me special, or better than anyone else. I also like to have a ARF to "Bash" from time to time. This topic isn't about building a part because the ARF became discontinued, it's about being able to purchase the stock parts if a person chooses to- because he or she isn't able to build, or has the patience to build or for what ever reason or excuse.

Because I fly full size aircraft and RC Scale, I inspect my aircraft top to bottom every flight including range check. No matter how good I am at building or flying, it's easy to miss something, or not see a problem in the making. What seems to be tight when I check it, can loosen up because of vibration, or a part can just fail. I seen things happen to 3-D or Pattern sponsered pilots. How many times have we seen failures on youtube? It happens to the best of us, so using "loosing a wheel" and using it against Azzir as a insult is ludicrous IMO.


Pete

Luchnia

My Feedback: (21)

This fits me because I am one of those guys that just simply does not have the time to build. I consider myself fortunate to find some time to fly so ARFs are big for me and serve the purpose well.

If it were not for ARFs, I probably would not be flying unless I had been able to pick up something from someone that was already built. I do some repair and have repaired an AW Extra that someone at a club crashed and give me. It was quite the bit of work but I flew it all one summer and I broke the fuse so did not mess with it any longer.

I mainly wanted to prove to myself I could rebuild it. If I had it to do over I would not rebuild because I prefer to use my time flying. I think it is very aggravating that you can buy a plane that was in production and possibly could not get parts for it six months later. It sort of makes you wonder.

LUDS96

My Feedback: (23)

Great Planes bought Carl Goldberg so you would only have there products to buy. Soon maybe they will buy Hanger 9

w0mbat

My Feedback: (1)

Personally, I think manufacturers are doing a great job and it's a modern marvel that you can purchase a .60 size ARF for under $500.00. It would cost someone over twice that much to build from a kit when you factor in time and materials. I remember ARFs 15 years ago and am amazed at the quality improvements in flight characteristics, durability, ease of assembly, ease of repair and materials.

As far as replacement parts are concerned, it's really a non-issue because if any manufacturer had to stock every replacement part for every plane they ever sold for the life of the company, the parts would be so expensive that most people couldn't afford them in the first place! I don't know of anyone who is in business just to give product away for free.

I think the real issue here is that some people want to purchase replacement parts but they don't want to pay the true cost of producing and stocking that part. That is simply a fantasy that will never be fulfilled in every industry!

Luchnia

My Feedback: (21)

A few things come to mind when reading this:

1. Who is implying that a business should give product away for free when working with replacement parts?

2. Couldn't a manufacturer post parts replacement policy so the customer can be aware that parts may or may not be available for their products and let the consumer decide if they want to play roulette with their items?

3. Do you think car dealers should follow this same line of thought and not stock any parts or provide service for your car?

I know it is not feasible to stock every part for a plane, but it would not be all that expensive to stock the main parts that users request. Most manufacturers already have done the analysis and know what parts are normally stocked. I was in business for approximately 30 years and we stocked parts and also knew where to get the parts that we did not stock and we were a SMALL business with limited funds.

Only occasionally would you run into that hard to find discontinued item and we had connections on used or hard to find parts as well. I am very surprised that RC plane service and parts support is handle so very poorly by many companies. Some do a great job while others a very shabby job. Many vendors require you to stock a certain number of parts or they pull your dealership and maybe that is different with RC.

Many consumers go by the standard, "Burn me once - you won't burn me twice." I do that myself quite often unless it is some outrageous deal and I take the risk.

w0mbat

My Feedback: (1)

1. Replacement parts are available for every plane because there is always somone who will build one for you if you don't want to make it yourself. Of course, people's time is expensive so it will cost a pretty penny. If cost wasn't an issue, this thread wouldn't have been started in the first place, the original poster would have simply asked someone to make the part for him.

2. Anyone who buys anything knows that replacement parts will not be available forever. Normally when a product is discontinued, replacement parts are also in short supply. I can't think of one product in any industry that comes with the availibility of OE replacement parts for the life of the user.

3. Model airplane parts are normally available from any reputable company while the airplane is in production. After that, they can easily be made by the user or they are available on a custom basis from any good builder for the right price. No car company carries parts long term and most people simply don't have the knowledge or the equipment to build their own car parts. There are aftermarket companies who usually produce them after a relatively short period of time. You have to figure that the life of a car is anywhere from 40-100 years while the life of the typical ARF is maybe 1-2 years. In relative terms, OE parts for model airplanes are available for much longer than OE parts for cars.

Having been in the ARF industry for a number of years, I can tell you that no manufacturer can accurately predict the number of replacement parts they will need for any particular model and that you just can't order 1000 of every part in hopes that they will sell (I know this from experience!). Model airplane parts fail for various reasons and most of them are unpredictable (ie: crashes). It's not like an automobile where the manufacturer knows exactly what parts will wear out and when.

Azzir325

Yes, you will have to build a new wing panel if you want to fly that plane again. Why??

Because manufactures don't do a good enough job of support for their models and customers. The CAN and SHOULD do better.

Jacobs Jasta 7

A automobile manufacturer doesn't know exactly what will wear out and when, that's plain ludacris. I have a car now that's well beyond the expiration date, the body is rusting off the frame, but everything works including the air conditioning. It's a 1999 Ford Escort with 234,789 original miles on it and it will go another 2 years before I think it might rust out on me.

So your company sold what, 3 ARF models last time I checked? What was it the P-40, a stunt pattern style trainer and a Pitts Biplane? You sampled the ARF Market more than me, but to say you know everything from dabbling in the ARF market doesn't make you a expert in the business. When your company made the kits and short kits, how long has it been when you first discontinued those? Now because for what ever reason you are making limited numbers of the short kits. Why did you decide to bring them back if sales were so terrible in the first place?

And how long after most of your parts got sold out, people were emailing your company for the FW-190 D9 3-blade spinner? ( I was one of them)

That was in high demand, but you refused to come back with it and told people, " Just buy the 2- blade, we don't have the 3- blade any longer." So there you go! You are another one who knows what the demand is, but doesn't make the part to meet that demand. I guess for your business- no money coming in is better than making some money, then you turn around and boo hoo that no one is buying from you. To me it's no different than what Greatplanes and Hanger 9 is doing in my opinion other than flooding the market with cheap scale electric foamies to even out the sales chart. [&:]

Here's another thing all of the manufactures don't think about- many times I buy the discontinued parts for other things. There is a new breed of builder in the market called the Kit and ARF "Basher." Many times I will convert one part from one plane to fit another. I swapped the legs off the Hanger 9 Fokker DVII and modified them to fit the GP Fokker Dr1. That was a additional $14 for Horizon that normally they wouldn't get. $14 is much better than $0.

So Wombat, if you were to remake the FW-190D9 3-blade nose cone, I'd bet you'ld make more money than if you didn't. Also, how many ARF and kits did you produce and sell? To me that would be the deciding factor if I should continue to make the parts for a few years after the Kit or ARF has been discontinued.

Now if I got a email or phone call from a person who still has my product and needs a part, I would pull out the mold or the plans and make him that part special for him or her. It's called quality customer support which is lacking in todays market and business practices. Believe me, this is what keeps customers loyal to a company. Too many aren't willing to go the extra mile and that's sad.

My brother owns a Lamborghini Diablo, (good for him I know- I wouldn't have bought it) he was lucky to get one with no engine in it and almost took out a house mortgage to get it.

Did you know if he had the money, he could buy all the original parts for it? Matter in fact, Lamborghini still makes all the parts for all the models dating back to the 1960's. Did you also know I can still order new parts for a Ford GT40 if I had one? Just like some ARF and kit aircraft they can become a collectors item and become a small investment, so why not continue to make parts and keep them on hand? We can use the car analogy all we want, and can find what ever we want for the use of our arguement, to me it's pointless.

Because we have fallen in to the Chinese way of doing business, and people who run the American businesses thinks what the Chinese do is the right way of doing things, and that we as the consumer is not important.

Fiberglass Specialties I paid $65 for the Discontinued GP Fokker Dr1 Cowl. That $65 could have gone to Greatplanes, but because they aren't very smart in my opinion, they lost out and it went to a guy who saw the flaw and answered the call to make fiberglass discontinued parts.

Pete

Jacobs Jasta 7

Big fish swallowing another big fish. Now that would be interesting. But then we would have a even larger monopoly on our hands, and that to me wouldn't be copasetic.


Pete

w0mbat

My Feedback: (1)

They know exactly which parts wear out, that is why they have service manuals and replacement schedules. Sure they may have some unintended wear and damage items such as car crashes but they account for that when deciding their production numbers. Also, most manufacturers outsource most of their parts so ordering more is simply a case of calling their supplier who specializes in making certain parts. I can guarantee you that if an auto manufacturer had to make every single part that goes in every single car like model airplane manufacturers do, they would have part backorders in the thousands and you would be paying 5x as much for each part.

We produced a total of 8 ARFs and sold a few thousand. I would say that I have pretty good knowledge of the ARF market. We quit selling ARFs because we didn't have good enough control over production and didn't want to put our name on something that wasn't up to our standards. We didn't discontinue the kits for lack of sales, we stopped making them because good balas was scarce, they were a lot of work, required a lot of technical support and we were busy working on other aspects of our business. We now have our hobby end moving along so we have time to make kits again.

10 people wanting something does not constitute high demand! What you don't realize is that we have to purchase 5000 spinners in order to get them machined and delivered at a decent price. There is no way that we could even come close to selling 5000 3 blade Focke Wulf spinners. So yes, we had to turn down a few sales @ $39.95 each in order to save ourselves tens of thousands of dollars in excess inventory sitting around for 50 years. You will notice that nobody else makes them and now you know why!

Like I said above, we would have lost a lot of money if we made such a stupid decision. The only reason we made spinners is because, at the time, we were selling enough kits to warrant making an investment into scale spinners. If someone else was already making them, we wouldn't have even thought about making them. You can bet that Great Planes and Horizon have many planes that they only sell a few hundred of. Why would they stock 50 years worth of replacement parts for a plane they only sold a couple hundred of? That would also be a stupid business decision.

Now what you don't realize is that every company selling ARFs buys them from a factory (that may not even be a full time model airplane factory) in Asia. These factories can't just "pull out the mold" and pop out a part. They have to schedule a production time, start a production line, produce a profitable amount of parts (normally 300-500) and then figure out how to ship them to the US in a cost effective manner. Most of these parts are cowls, canopies, etc and take up a lot of room - hence, they are expensive to ship in anything other than a full container. Of course, you can't just ship a partial container because you would lose money on the parts.

Did you know that Lamborghini and Ford don't make all their own parts? Did you know that other companies who specialize in making specific parts are the ones making them? Did you know that if those companies stopped producing those parts, they wouldn't have anything to sell? Why don't you call Lamborghini or Ford and tell them you would like a new alternator built only by them. They would probably call you crazy and hang up the phone! The fact is that you can get all the model airplane replacement parts you want. You just have to be willing to pay for them, the same rate as you would pay for a 1960 OE Lamborghini replacement part.

Actually, the consumer has forced US companies to do business like the Chinese in order to compete in price. Like I stated above, you can get any part you want made very easily but you will simply have to pay more for it. You can complain about it all you want but the Wal-Mart mentality is really the only thing at fault here. If the consumer made it profitable for companies to stock replacment parts, they would do it. Unfortunately, not many people are willing to pay $80.00 for a .40 size cowl. On the other hand, they will pay $150.00 for a 2-1/2" replacement speaker on a Mitsubishi 3000GT, so the manufacturer is more than willing to stock it!

Hence the "specialties" in Fiberglass Specialties! That is their business - the same as specialty companies producing car parts for car manufacturers. I don't think that GP is too upset about losing a $65.00 sale when they would have had to spend $10,000 in order to get them produced.

Jacobs Jasta 7

w0mbat,

I respectfully disagree to your analogy of the whole thing.

Pete

Propworn

My Feedback: (3)

Just so you know Pete, Fiberglass Specialties was sold to the present owner as is, with all molds already done. From the way he talked at Toledo the first year they took over I understood that they most likely will not expand his inventory until he finds someone else to make any new molds. I have visited more than a few times the previous owner’s site in Michigan where I observed the original molds and fiberglass parts being made. All of the molds for kits were lifted off original parts from a kit. There was no rhyme or reason which parts for which models were made except an original kit was purchased or someone lent the originals so they could be copied. This was never done with the idea of supplying discontinued parts but to offer a superior alternative to the cheap parts that came with the kits at that time. The molds were usually put together soon after the kit was introduced. The only reason any of the out of production parts are still available is its old stock or people are using it for other projects. The original owner would make you a one of if the mold was still in good shape but you might have to wait until he had the extra time to do it. The only molds I saw made from scratch were those for plans.

Dennis Pratt

Scooter04

"Ask Fiberglass Specialties, if he makes a good profit just making the cowls and wheel pants for discontinued kits and ARF aircraft? He told me business is somewhat good the last time I talked to him a few years ago. But unforunately, he doesn't make stock replacement parts other than what he already makes, and Hanger 9 and Greatplanes doesn't give up the scale drawings so one of us could manufacture the parts for ourselves."

One company that does "somewhat good" is hardly a strong case for everyone to throw down some money and start a company making replacement parts. The fact that he doesn't make any "new" parts "other than what he already makes" would also be an indication that there must not be enough money in it. They have been around a long time and do make a great product if they have what you want. Then you have a choice to buy from them at a premium, or learn to lay up your own cowl, or re-pair the damaged one. Their parts are almost more like "hop up" parts, since they are generally better than what is provided with a kit.

"So Wombat, if you were to remake the FW-190D9 3-blade nose cone, I'd bet you'ld make more money than if you didn't." No offense, but really?? If you've ever been self employed, or owned your own company, I don't think you could make a statement like that.

"Now if I got a email or phone call from a person who still has my product and needs a part, I would pull out the mold or the plans and make him that part special for him or her." And then you would graciously close the doors to your business and give your house back to the bank.

Why does this hobby which is small in the big scheme of things and very specialized get compared to mass production and the auto industry? Makes no sense as they are two totally different animals. I bet a lot of people throw away more money upgrading phones, tablets, laptops, and pc's than buying a new arf when you break the fuselage in half.

"Manufacturers can and should do a better job of product support and customer support." Hey it's not that I dont want every part to be available forever, but it's just not realistic and will never happen no matter how much people want it too. And I like the assumption that manufacturers "can and should". You must have their business plan and financials in front of you. How about you change your angle to : I wish manufacturers would do a better job of product support and customer support. At least you won't sound entitled and demanding. Nobody really cares what you demand, and it just sets the whole tone and the arguments begin.

Get to know someone that owns a hobby shop or a company in the hobby industry and you will begin to appreciate all that we have available to us these days.

Jacobs Jasta 7

I'm personal friends with a LHSO. He would do more if he had the time, and he's always wanting me to go in the business to make new special products for him. Most of you don't remember what the hobby used to be like, at one time parts were made and then put in a warehouse in stock, much more than they are now. Rick and I remember those good ol' days when people who owned the companies like Greatplanes, Sig, Goldberg and many others were in the hobby themselves and liked to fly. They took pride in what they made and sold, and they weren't so quick to discontinue a product over night when they sold out quickly. They always made another batch and they continued to stock discontinued parts for a very long time.

Now most of the hobby retail is taken over by snot running allergy ridden pencil pushers that only care about the numbers. They don't care about us as a loyal customer- all they care about is making a big profit. I figured a guy who kept a ARF for 15 years is good publicity for the company? Greatplanes thinks my Highly Modified "Bashed" 60 Fokker Dr1 is the bomb. However, they refuse to have the people in China making the ARF in the factory listen to us. They tell Greatplanes and Hanger 9 what they are going to make next, more than listening to the consumer in what they want.

It's time Greatplanes and Hanger 9 and the rest bring it all home, and put hard working Americans back to work. I'm willing to pay more for discontinued parts to be remade, and why not? I already spend up to a $1,000 on a ARF easily by the time I'm done. And I'm willing to pay extra for good quality and good customer support. I am not alone in that department. So yes the RC hobby market could do way better than it is, if they just took the time to listen to us and not be so lazy. Also it would be better if they didn't let China dictate how much, or what they were going to send.

Pete

Scooter04

Unfortunately it is all industries these days not just the hobby industry. I own a construction company and have to order things that use to sit on a shelf in a warehouse. Lighting supply and plumbing suppliers seem to be the worst around here. Windows and doors i use to order on my word, and now i have to pay for half if not the whole order up front to even get something ordered. I get products and they are damaged, or were put together so poorly that i get to fix them before i can even install them. Things get dropped discontinued or changed to where I have to replace something instead of repairing it. Sign of the times i guess. Businesses aren't run like they use to be and honesty and morels seems to be the exception more than the rule.

I provide great service on our work and products that we make or install. That is why i am not rich, cause i ussually end up eating that time to keep customers happy and coming back. I make a living, keep people happy, and sleep at night. If the dollar drove the business it would be different.

I would recomend getting into the hobby business about as much as i would recomend the construction industry. Do it if you love it and money doesn't matter. If the money comes, its a bonus. . . . Ha ha.

Luchnia

My Feedback: (21)

Very well put. This is the society we have become where a product has to be fixed before it can even be used and some think this is the right way? I guess some of us old schoolers would rather have honor and still believe that people are more important than money. I can imagine what you deal with. I know some guys that work in the home building industry and they share the same sentiments.

Jacobs Jasta 7

Here's a new thing I ran into, how about some hobby shops who have a mail ordering system and storefront. I ordered a cowl and dummy engine for my Hanger 9 Fokker DVII so I could have spare parts on hand. I ordered them both from Phil's Hobby on Amazon. The next day I called Phil'shobby long distance and asked them to take extra time to bubble wrap the dummy engine because it is brittle and can break. When I got the engine in the mail, it had no padding and it was busted in a few places like the Chinese stomped on it before it left Beijing.

With a little CA and a hair dryer I fixed the engine good enough no one could tell it was ever broken. In the package there was a reciept stating the cowl was going to be shipped seperately. So I wrote them a email:

And this was their response:

Then I went to their website and found that they aren't doing mail orders on the item, but has it for instock store front sales only. What kind of Cr@p is that? And what really pissed me off was I checked my bank and they hadn't refunded me for the cowl. They should have done it at the same time she sent me the email IMO. So this is what I wrote back:

I also gave them a bad review on Amazon.

So now, once they know something is discontinued, they will keep a handful of parts for the store, and a few for online orders. Once they sell out of the online orders, they will refuse to ship out the item from inside the store?

http://www.philshobbyshop.com/catalo...iberglass_cowl

Nuts!

I contacted Fiberglass Specialties and asked if they wanted to make a mold and I would send them a cowl. I'm waiting to hear from them, and I checked Horizon- now they sold out of that item. So I shot another email asking if they were going to order anymore.

Pete

Azzir325

Manufactures and distributors can and should do a better job of supporting their customers and products.

Luchnia

My Feedback: (21)

I don't know how you guys that have discontinued planes that need various parts deal with it. Out of all the planes I have, I only have one plane that is discontinued (Funtana X100) and I have tried to get side force generators for it and it was very frustrating. I looked online for month or so and found nothing. I did find that another model's part will fit but I would have to recover them. I know I can make them, but I don't desire to.

I may (not sure yet) sell the plane because it is discontinued and not supported any longer. I am just not sure yet what I will do. I cannot imagine having several different planes dealing with this problem and I don't see any companies doing anything about it. This stuff is always placed on the consumer's backs.

I think from now on I will be much more observant as to when a plane is discontinued and try to get something out of it on the market (problem is usually at a loss), however I would make sure whoever bought it knew it was discontinued so they could decide based on that.

It almost (notice I stated "almost") makes you mad enough to just strip everything out of the plane, mount a camera on a tripod, set the plane on fire while recording, and make a commentary for youtube why you are burning the plane [X(]

acdii

I'm reading this and LMAO. Do you guys really think an ARF will always be available? If you are so concerned that you will break something, and you will, its the nature of the hobby, why not get 2 kits?  Then you have a spare parts plane for when you break something?  Look at SIG, Great company, and you would think the 4* ARF's would always be around, and well, guess what, they aren't and may never come back. I have a 4*120 ARF, and if I break it, nearly did the first flight, I will just have to make new parts for it from scratch.

If you can't find them, make them the best you can and go fly.  Other than a canopy or cowl, is there really any part of a plane that can't be remade from wood and covering, or found on the hardware rack at the LHS?

I found one of the last new 4*120 ARF's at my LHS, and they still have a couple of the 4*40 ARF's. If I break this plane, the only thing that I might have a hard time replacing will be the canopy, but since the kit is still being made, I may be able to get a canopy. The rest is wood and covering.

Jacobs Jasta 7

Eh, for starters Mr. Laughing Hyena, the Hanger 9 Fokker DVII has only been in production for 4 years. Parts are selling off the shelves faster than some can muster a f@rt. Every ARF kit of this plane has been sold out about 1 year ago, and Horizon didn't resupply or stock up before making that decision to discontinue it for whatever their excuse was.

4 years of producing parts and the ARF- was hardly on the market for very long IMO. If that's what your terminology is meaning forever, then I guess you would call a ARF on the market for the standard 10 years "infinity."

If you take the time to slowely re-read and comprehend what all of what Rick and I wrote, not once did we mention that we were afraid of breaking parts, so your comment was irrelevant.

More so than most I know how to build from scratch and read plans. I am very anal retentive when it comes to details, and I know how to use everyday objects laying around the house to make a part. You can ask Rick, I over do a simple paint job! [&:] That's not the point. The point is I'm not going to imitate a parot on Prozac, and keep repeating what we've been writing about just because a person is to dense to figure out what this thread has been about.


Pete

Propworn

My Feedback: (3)

Yep Yep Yep no one is going to argue that point. Can you guys call 1 800 Wha Whaa

Jacobs Jasta 7

It shows you don't know the definition of the word "Rant." Is this Canadian education at its best?


Pete