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Will Great Planes ever get the landing gear issue on the Revolver resolved ?

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Will Great Planes ever get the landing gear issue on the Revolver resolved ?

Old 06-08-2014, 05:01 PM
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Granpooba
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Default Will Great Planes ever get the landing gear issue on the Revolver resolved ?

Don't get me wrong as I think the Great Planes Revolver is a great model. As a matter of fact I have my fourth one on the shelf waiting for assembly. But once again flying my small Revolver this past Wednesday, the landing gear came off, even though it was one of the nicest, smoothest landings that you ever want to see. My first Revolver 70 the landing gear came off. Rebuilt it and still flying it with a Saito 91. Learned that lesson and reinforced the gear on my second Revolver 70, powered by a DLE-20. Landing gear never came off, but Mother Earth decided she was hungry one day and ate it.

Never did reinforce the gear on my small Revolver powered by an OS .55 AX and sure enough it came off. Have already repaired it and it is again ready for flight. But I keep hearing the same story about the gear on the Revolvers, over and over again. Think Great Planes will ever get the hint and do something about the landing gear structural weakness
Old 06-08-2014, 07:02 PM
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SkyPilot101
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I doubt it, since they sell fine as is. No incentive to fix anything
Old 06-08-2014, 07:33 PM
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speedracerntrixie
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LOL, why would they fix something that flys off the selves as it is, after all didn't you buy 4 of them knowing the issue? Once the general public figures out that ARFs are good to get in the air quickly but not much else then the market will change. ARFs will get better and kits will come back on a limited scale compared to what used to be available. If you want to make any kind of change, the only vote they listen to is the sound of money.
Old 06-09-2014, 01:31 AM
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Lifer
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Mount the gear with nylon bolts.
Old 06-09-2014, 02:57 AM
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ahicks
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Fixing the issue would require them to admit there IS an issue, and that's something they RARELY do?
Old 06-09-2014, 09:37 AM
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speedracerntrixie
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Al, more like NEVER do LOL
Old 06-09-2014, 11:04 AM
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Granpooba
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Originally Posted by Lifer View Post
Mount the gear with nylon bolts.
Really do not think that mounting the gear with " nylon bolts " will make any difference. Not when the whole mount plate breaks away from the fuselage and has even taken part of the fuselage with it.
Old 06-09-2014, 11:13 AM
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Granpooba
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Originally Posted by speedracerntrixie View Post
LOL, why would they fix something that flys off the selves as it is, after all didn't you buy 4 of them knowing the issue? Once the general public figures out that ARFs are good to get in the air quickly but not much else then the market will change. ARFs will get better and kits will come back on a limited scale compared to what used to be available. If you want to make any kind of change, the only vote they listen to is the sound of money.
Yes Sir, I have purchased 4 of them as I do think that they are a great assembling and flying ARF. But I am also getting very tired of " ASSEMBLING " ARF's.
That is most likely the reason for my purchase of a Balsa USA model. Finally have decided that it is time to return to building and get away from just assembling.

It would just be nice though to see Great Planes redesign the landing gear mount for the Revolvers. If anybody wanted to check a lot of past postings, they would find many complaints about the landing gear. It is just a shame as so many think, including myself that the Revolver is a great model.
Old 06-09-2014, 11:35 AM
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Lifer
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Lets see, we have an aluminum landing gear attached with steel bolts to a light ply structure. Which will give way first?

Make the sacrificial structure the bolt by using one made of nylon that will shear.
Old 06-09-2014, 12:11 PM
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speedracerntrixie
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One could also use slightly larger screws and thread them directly into the wood. I know it sounds kind of cheesy but that's what Carden does with airplanes up to 40%. I started doing the same, the screws pull cleanly out of the gear plate. Fill the holes with some dowel, re-drill and your all fixed up.
Old 06-09-2014, 12:34 PM
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Lifer
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On a 25 pound plane I use 1/4-20 nylons. 10-32's for around a 10 pound plane or less. This is one of the first changes I make on an arf. I knock out the blind nut, drill the gear for clearance, and drill the wood for tap. After tapping the wood, I hit the threads with thin c/a to harden the wood and then run the tap thru again.

This isn't rocket science. It's using a sacrificial component to save the structure. Basic engineering.
Old 06-09-2014, 04:11 PM
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The landing gear on mine broke off the maiden flight. I tried to fix it and it just kept breaking. After a few times I just threw it away. Shame too. I paid quite a bit for it and it flew so nice. But if I have to fix it after everytime I take it out then the trash it goes or I just give it away. But like an above post said, if they keep selling what would Greatplanes'
incentive be to fix it?
Old 06-09-2014, 04:29 PM
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The root of the problem is the plywood that is used in these ARF "kits" is just junk. The truth is that no matter what you do it will always be a weak point. The last ARF I owned was in 2007 and there weren't many before that one. It was a 40% Extra 260. I got it cheap because the gear plate had been torn out. When I did the repair, I used quality Midwest 1/8 ply 3 layers thick with CF cloth between layers. The new formers were cut from a laminate of 2 layers of 1/8 lite ply with fiberglass in the middle. Not too many guys buying ARFs will go through that kind of effort. The whole time I had that airplane my shop smelled like wood and the airplane lost 1/2 pound. My assumption was that the manufacturer was using non dried wood or it absorbed moisture on the way over. Eventually I got tired of repairing other areas of the airplane and sold it.
Old 06-09-2014, 04:31 PM
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Had two Revolvers, both lost LG twice each
Old 06-09-2014, 04:34 PM
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ahicks
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Guys, we're talking about a REALLY cheesy design here, that provides for very little in the way tension loads on the front of the LG plate. Complicate this issue with the fact that the stock gear are 2 piece, and offset to the rear (imparting tension loads on this landing gear plate with even the gentlest of touch downs) and it's an accident looking for a place to happen, plain and simple.

Thankfully, there's a reasonably easy, cheap mod that pretty much eliminates the issue. Plenty of pics and discussion to support it, so there's really no development work to do.

But I also get the fact the materials and pics/directions to install this mod could be supplied with the kit. Pretty hard to believe nobody at GP knows about the problem, or the mod to fix it.

To fix the kit in production, all they would have to do is recess the gear up into the fuse 1/2-3/4" like a Citabria, Yak, Sukhoi, and many others - that don't have this problem!
Old 06-09-2014, 04:38 PM
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Originally Posted by Lifer View Post
Lets see, we have an aluminum landing gear attached with steel bolts to a light ply structure. Which will give way first?

Make the sacrificial structure the bolt by using one made of nylon that will shear.
Can use any type of bolt that you desire. If it is a " structural design flaw in the fuselage ", its going to fail. Think they use sacrificial bolts on real life aircraft ? Great Planes needs to redesign the fuselage with a reinforced landing gear mounting system.

I may be wrong, but with over 50 years of real life aircraft maintenance including USAF Tech and retired Airline Transport Pilot, under my belt, I do not think that I am . You build an aircraft to hold up under all types of landing conditions. You do not build them to have the landing gear shear off.

Should be no difference in these aircraft whether you are sitting in them and flying them yourself, or standing on the ground flying them with a radio.

BUT !! Then again, this is all my " PERSONAL OPINION " !
Old 06-09-2014, 04:40 PM
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Originally Posted by ahicks View Post
Guys, we're talking about a REALLY cheesy design here, that provides for very little in the way tension loads on the front of the LG plate. Complicate this issue with the fact that the stock gear are 2 piece, and offset to the rear (imparting tension loads on this landing gear plate with even the gentlest of touch downs) and it's an accident looking for a place to happen, plain and simple.

Thankfully, there's a reasonably easy, cheap mod that pretty much eliminates the issue. Plenty of pics and discussion to support it, so there's really no development work to do.

But I also get the fact the materials and pics/directions to install this mod could be supplied with the kit. Pretty hard to believe nobody at GP knows about the problem, or the mod to fix it.

To fix the kit in production, all they would have to do is recess the gear up into the fuse 1/2-3/4" like a Citabria, Yak, Sukhoi, and many others - that don't have this problem!
Yes Sir, I agree !! Just a small structural design change.
Old 06-09-2014, 05:08 PM
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Originally Posted by Granpooba View Post
Don't get me wrong as I think the Great Planes Revolver is a great model. As a matter of fact I have my fourth one on the shelf waiting for assembly. But once again flying my small Revolver this past Wednesday, the landing gear came off, even though it was one of the nicest, smoothest landings that you ever want to see. My first Revolver 70 the landing gear came off. Rebuilt it and still flying it with a Saito 91. Learned that lesson and reinforced the gear on my second Revolver 70, powered by a DLE-20. Landing gear never came off, but Mother Earth decided she was hungry one day and ate it.

Never did reinforce the gear on my small Revolver powered by an OS .55 AX and sure enough it came off. Have already repaired it and it is again ready for flight. But I keep hearing the same story about the gear on the Revolvers, over and over again. Think Great Planes will ever get the hint and do something about the landing gear structural weakness
Don't know if they will do fix but now that it' out there is a problem they may on the next batch.
Old 06-09-2014, 05:53 PM
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ahicks
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Originally Posted by ira d View Post
Don't know if they will do fix but now that it' out there is a problem they may on the next batch.
Ira, I think thats the problem. There's a very large long string devoted to this particular plane (Larger Revolver), dating back to '09. Issues regarding this really poor design go back nearly as far. I just looked, and the mod many are still using was first posted in November of '09 (post # 72). GP has their head firmly planted where the sun don't shine on this issue (underground). -Al

-Al
Old 06-09-2014, 07:11 PM
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Any way, I thought all you guy's fix'ed your L/G !
Old 06-09-2014, 07:56 PM
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Granpooba - great topic, and one that has been discussed at length (as ahicks mentioned) on the "Larger Revolver" thread. Acutely I just posted a detailed explanation (again) of my Revolver gear fix - I use Dubro and add a new floor. Pics posted, too. Strongest gear on any of my planes. I do not understand how such a nice model includes such an inherently weak L\G design (and I'm including the rear gear in that - putting landing stress directly into the rudder?? makes no sense). I was disappointed to see that the new 90" model follows the same split-gear, in-line four bolt design.

btw - using nylon bolts on this plane would only guarantee two wings speared by those pretty wheel pants.
Old 06-10-2014, 04:23 AM
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Just a question, are you guys landing anything like this? If so I don't think there is much that will hold up to slamming one in.

Bob

http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j...68445247,d.b2U
Old 06-10-2014, 05:32 AM
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Originally Posted by sensei View Post
Just a question, are you guys landing anything like this? If so I don't think there is much that will hold up to slamming one in.

Bob

http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j...68445247,d.b2U
Far from this type of landing ! Have made some of the nicest wheel landings that you would ever want to see and do yourself. Only to watch the landing gear separate from the fuselage. No slamming or banging them on, just nice smooth landings and then ............ landing gear gone !
Old 06-10-2014, 06:04 AM
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Bob, if it were a matter of surviving a hard landing, there's wouldn't be much to complain about. Too, most guys considering a plane like this are well past the trainer stage, and many have had several of these? It's an awesome plane with one of the widest speed envelopes out there, so It's a blast to fly. This truly is a crummy design.

The front of the landing gear plate meets the very bottom of the firewall at a 90 degree angle. This leaves little potential for reinforcement in the tension mode? The fix is to screw/bolt a piece of sheet alum bent at a 90 angle, or extruded alum. angle, to the front of the firewall, and bottom of the landing gear plate (under the gear), encapsulating that 90 degree joint in something that's not going to let go easily. This keeps that joint from letting go in tension. Adding tri stock on the inside does help in compression mode, but is useless in tension mode because the plate is made of china ply - which pulls apart very easily, leaving your tri stock reinforcements on the inside of the fuse perfectly intact when this failure occurs.

Last edited by ahicks; 06-10-2014 at 06:08 AM.
Old 06-10-2014, 07:13 AM
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I understand now, thanks for the information guys.

Bob

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