corsair01

I just have bought the Graupner Extra 300L with "LEKI" design.
Does anyone has some experience with this plane. I'm going to use an MVVS 26 ccm methanol on it.
All replies (the good ones, and especially the bad ones) are welcome.

willia25

The LEKI design must be a European trim. Most over here are the Patty Wagstaff genre. They are great planes for the money, and a great flyer. I had an OS 61 on mine, and it was good, but the new onew will have a Tower 75. Good luck!

Rainman-ACRF

Just thread needs some further contribution .....

I recently purchased one of these kits - wow !

I hate building as I find it's a necessary evil that gets in the way of flying. I've never built anything other than ARTF kits, and I've built quite a few, including gas turbine models - so I think I know what I like in my ARTFs .... basically as little work as possible.

If you want an ARTF that will build into a really nice aerobatic model that is easy to transport and can be ready in a couple of evenings then this is where it's at. I swear, if it wasn't for the fact that the completed plane wouldn't fit in the box and that they don't include the radio gear and engine then it would be READY TO FLY. The only thing to glue together is the tail and it's all cut so perfectly square and almost "self jigging" that it is practically impossible to do a bad job. Once you've glued the tail together then put away your epoxy as you won't need it again. I certainly didn't have to use any CA, not once.

Every surface is already hinged and it is covered to absolute perfection. The closed-loop rudder hardware is already installed complete with all linkages attached so all you have to do is crimp the wires once the servo is installed and the cables are set to the correct length - even the crimps are threaded on for you. For every control surface it is just a case of screwing in a servo, installing the control surface horns, assembling the linkage, and connecting up. You might need to melt a small area of covering for the servo horns to protrude under the wing but it takes seconds to do that. You can have both wings finished in about fifteen minutes.

All that remains to do is install the throttle servo, engine rails, undercarriage/wheels and then bolt on the engine and install the fuel tank and receiver and tidy up your wiring and you're done! Even the pilot and canopy are already installed.

I do have ONE gripe though - the fuel tank. It's not very big and the installation involves it being secured in place using a screw-in former which ultimately holds it at an angle of about 25 degree downward towards the rear. As such I had trouble getting it to run the tank dry and so reinstalled it in the more traditional manner just wedging it in with foam and keeping it horizontal. I'm also going to install a larger tank since there is so much room inside that fuselage.

The only thing which takes a little time is trimming the cowl, but you can leave that right until the end once you've run your engine in and got it setup OK.

To fly it's an absolute peach on low rates and a bit of exponential. On normal rates it's a real animal and extemely aerobatic. To make it all the more enjoyable it is capable of some VERY slow landings and handles a stiff breeze with consumate ease. Rudder authority is very "uncoupled" and it will knife-edge into the horizon and practically no elevator required. I'm running a SuperTigre 75 with a 13.5" x 8" prop - it has plenty of oomph and gets off the ground in very short order and is very quiet. I love it.

Highly recommended. Have a look at :-

[link]http://www.motorsandrotors.com/Product_Pages/Feature_Models/review_newleki.htm[/link]

Phil

wavy777

I totally agree with Rainman, I bought one of these kits from Motors and Rotors in Watford on Wednesday, and was flying it on Friday afternoon!, they're is so little to do and for £130 It is a genuine bargain.

I usually fly a Glens 72" extra 300 with a Moki 1.80, this at £160 just for the kit and £250 for the motor looks like daylight robbery next to this Graupner offering! With an OS 91 it prop hangs on 3/4 throttle, is completely neutral in rolls, outside loops and lands like a trainer! Now a permanent feature on the field at the weekend.

BUY ONE!!!

PS: Fuel tank way to small, a Kavan 16 Oz fits pretty well.

Rainman-ACRF

I think thats what I installed, formers around the fuel tank needed a little light trimming with a dremmel. With the Super Tigre 75 you can fly comfortably for 15 - 20 minutes.

Superb model. I can't get enough of it. I'm thinking about getting another one and doing an electric conversion.

Phil

corsair01

Hey guys, there are two versions of the "Leki" extra. I had the large version. Yes I "had". The plane went down because of a dead stick just after lift off. Fuselage broke in two. I have to say the plane did fly very well, only thing I didn't like was its weight. Because of that I haven't bought the same plane. In stead I bought the Sukhoi from "Hype". Nice plane to and a lot less weight.

wavy777

The Extra I have is the 1.6m version, for .61 two strokes / .91 FS, I think its Graupner part number is 6282M but can't be sure. This is a new model for 2004 I think?! I'n not sure how much mine weighs, it can't be more than 7.5 - 8 lbs as my OS .91 FX drives it wild vertically.

Rainman-ACRF

Ditto, I also have the 1.6m version. Did I mention what a cracking model it is? Just in case I didn't, THIS IS ONE EXCELLENT MODEL !

I don't make many recommendations when it comes to aeromodelling as everyone's mileage varies so much, but with this model I wouldn't hesitate.

Finals and landings are so slow and easy you could almost acuse it of taking the fun out of flying an aerobatic model - but if you want my honest opinion it takes the stress out of it. It's so easy to fly it makes a rank amateur like me look good. The fear of a tipstall on finals is nothing to worry about. On very low rates you could almost use it as a trainer.

For comparison it's quite similar to the Graupner Extra 300S that Greg Covey has done an electric conversion on, but personally I think the 300L is better. The tail has an airfoil profile on the 300L which if nothing else makes it look more scale, whereas the 300S is just a flat section. The 300L also has slightly larger control surfaces, otherwise the general dimensions of both models are the same.

Anyone in the market for an Extra owes it to themselve to take a look at one at the very least. It's how an ARTF SHOULD be done. It's about the most complete and best quality ARTF I've ever seen.

Phil

gglass

Hi I have also just bought the Graupner Extra Leki and am installing an OS 91 ii pump - instructions do not say anything about distance from firewall to spinner plate - anyone any ideas or should I just move the engine until the plane balances without any lead???

Lean540

Just buy one, they are great planes!
Easy to build, easy land and will make you look like a super star.
This is true isn't it Rob?

Lean540

zozo

Hi everybody!

I work now on my own Leki with 1,8m wingspan. I try to fit an MVVS 26 IFS gas engine on it. If you have experience in this area please share with me. The first missing information on the instructions is the distance between bulk head ( firewall ) and prop driver.
The only one place where I find the same plane with the same engine is on www.flyingdanno.de but unfortunately until this time I have no answer for my questions.

Thank in advance!

BaldEagel

Rainman
Have a look at this AXI 4130/16, 70amp Jeti, seperate BEC and two 5000mah Li-Po's in series to get 22.2 volts, saving in weight alone made the 300L even better than with the Webra 80 and lead I had in it before, only problem is other noisy engines up at the same time, I'm still not used to not hearing my own engine.

Rainman-ACRF

Thats the exact same motor and cells that I have in a Madness EP - turns a 14x6 easy and is a great prop-hanging machine. I've also put the same setup in a Graupner Ultimate bipe which is designed for an OS46FX - it's a real hoot.

You're right though, other IC planes are a nuisance because you can't hear your own motor. You don't realise how much you need to hear your own model until you can't. For me it makes certain 3D moves so difficult because you just don't know whats going on and you can't pre-empt anything. Aside from that, if you haven't got a timer on your radio then you can be in trouble because you can't hear the reduced RPMs.

If I do get round to building an electric Leki I shall use exactly the same gear you've got there as I know it will perform exceptionally well.

Regards,

Phil

SJN

Love my 1.6m extra 300 . I have a webra P-5 91 in mine.
Exelent quality

BaldEagel

Rainman
the other nice thing about electric is not having the silencer hanging out in the air spoiling the lines of a nice profile, I'm electifying a VMar Phantom 4 at the moment just so I don't have to look at the silencer, also it will sound better,(if I can hear it) I'm got a 15x10 on the 300L its fast and agile, I like my planes sensitive so have a rearward c of g as well, I am a bit of a speed freak and am also looking at a turboprop PC9 or Tucano have you seen the thread on the Tucano its awe inspiring.
Mike

BaldEagel

Sonnich
I love your workbench it reminds me of home. What is the swept wing model behind the Leki? looks interesting.
Mike

SJN

hehe....this way, I know where everything is....


Its a Bandit in the background.

http://www.bvmjets.com/

BaldEagel

SJN
Please tell me more about the Bandit if you have finnished it, how does it fly compared to the other available models if you know?
Can I get one in England or inport from Denmark.
Mike

SJN

You can buy it in your own backyard

http://www.motorsandrotors.com/

http://www.motorsandrotors.com/Product_Pages/Jets.htm

Super Bandit (Balsa) Kit £1325
Landing Gear set £1059.99
(BVM Retracts, Duro-Struts, door cylinders, wheels, smooth stop)
Turbine Installation Kit Includes BVM Bypass, Double Walled Tail Pipe, Engine mount) £369.99
3.5L Kevlar Fuel Cells(inc UAT) £279.99
Optional Clear Canopy £59.99
Opt Wing Tanks £99.99 (when bought with kit)



I have not finished mine yet.... still like in the pictures above.
There is no sport jet like the Bandit. They say it flys like a dream.......

Installing the engine next.

BaldEagel

Sonnich
Looks expensive at these rates is it rearly over £1000 for the landing gear, what turbine are you using, keep us up to date on the build, perhaps a new thread with details may be required. have a look at the Tucarno build thread if you havn't already its an interesting brouse.
Mike

Rainman-ACRF

Mike, when it comes to Jets there isn't anything like a BVM kit for sheer quality. I've been building a BVM Bobcat Composite and the landing gear is an absolute work of engineering-art. It's hard to imagine a better quality kit - a bit like the Graupner Extra 300L "Leki" ;-)

Phil

BaldEagel

Phil
But over a £1000 for an undercarridge, how many airframes can I buy for that?
I don't think so, and I have more money than sence.
Mike

Rainman-ACRF

You won't get many composite jet airframes comparable to a Bandit and certainly nothing from BVM. You're not comparing like for like - the BVM stuff is purpose designed and manufactured in the US for jets, and is not a set of run-of-the-mill retracts that you would use on much else.

I own a BVM Bobcat and a Graupner Harpoon (Composite-ARF Rookie) and the Harpoon has been through two sets of different makes of retracts, so I can tell you that the engineering in the BVM kit is simply light-years ahead of anything else - but it's not really fair because we're not comparing apples with apples, more like Skodas and Ferraris.

You're not looking at a price for just some retracts, it also includes wheel brakes and gear door pneumatics. At this end of the market the BVM stuff isn't actually that much more expensive when you look at what you're getting for the money, probably only a few hundred quid difference in reality for the nearest comparible equipment but the "BVM factor" is worth it in my opinion for a jet worth 6000 pounds. A malfunctioning set of retracts or a set that aren't designed for the job will make 1000 quid look like dog-food when your model gets trashed.

In the last two years at all the major UK jet events I've seen some popular individuals forced to land large scale models with some very precarious gear that has failed, ending up with some very undesirable results. Funnily enough, non have been BVM. I can't remember seeing a set of BVM gear that has malfunctioned at all in that time.

Phil

SJN

Well, their gear is not invincable

My friend who also has a bandit has managed to destroy a few sets, quite easily on a tarmac runway. We have been looking for an alternative.

BaldEagel

Rainman
Did not realise the retracts also included the gear mechs and brakes that makes a lot of difference to the value, pricing up using what I know is available over here using similar spec brings the price too £900.00 so as you say they are comprable value, will consider these for my Phantom, have cancelled the Robarts as they havn't got any anyway.
Mike