I've been having an extended discussion with an ARF manufacturer about hardware. Here are the facts:
*In order to cover R+D, importing, duty, advertising, warranty claims and have a little left over to buy groceries and pay the rent, the distributor has to charge about three times factory cost for a typical ARF.
*The metric hardware included in most 120 size ARF costs the factory about $1.50. That means you're paying close to $5 for the "crappy" hardware.
*To include the Du-bro, Sullivan and rocket City stuff everyone would like to have would cost the factory about $15, adding about $45 to the price of the kit. (The retail price of the name brand hardware if you bought it separately would be about $25.)

Poll:

Assuming the current street price is $350, would you prefer to receive the good stuff in the kit (price $390), receive no hardware and let you buy what you want (aggregate price $370) or leave the metric hardware in the kit so you can pick and choose what you want to use (aggregate price somewhere between $350 and $375)?

I have had three arf's so far, and have not used the hardware in any of them. I just prefer to put in stuff I trust. (even to include the wire landing gear.)

Well my experience with hardware in arfs is not good. All the stuff they give you is junk. My Lanier Edge hardware looks meant for a 40 sized plane and not a 120 sized. I was missing half of the stuff for the tail wheel etc. Your better off to buy what you trust.

I would say the majority of the people that buy arfs get hacked off when the kit doesn't come with hardware. Thats why they buy the arf to begin with because it is supposed to be all complete. So if the manufacture can't give us decent stuff than why do they bother. The price that some of these arfs are there is no excuse for the manufacture not to include good quality hardware.

So my theary is for 350.00 bucks the kit should include at that price a name brand hardware kit and not Jap stuff. If they leave the hardware out the kit should cost 300.00 bucks.

I would prefer to just purchase what I want, leave the hardware out. Why have a bunch of crap that you're never going to use lying around the shop.

Randy

Well from the results of the poll so far, it seems that the manufacturers are doing it right.

It's a tie between those who want to leave it all out and save $5 and those who want to include it so they can replace only what they feel they need to replace.

Well, $5 isn't going to change anybody's buying decision, but not including any hardware tends to upset some people, so the conclusion that makes the most sense for the most people is to keep doing what they are doing.

Jim

Yeap Jim, your right I would like to go ahead and retract my statement since the model I am in the middle of putting together, I am using the included hardware. It does however depend on the manufacture though because there have been a few cases where I purchased all new hardware.

Randy

I have a ton of left over stuff from kits because I almost always upgrade or like different stuff. Funny thing is I always seem to digging through it for something.

I perfer that the kits come with SAE, not Mertic hardware....you have better chances of finding SAE hardware replactment parts then metric............

The good stuff shouldn't cost more than retail. Retail prices include the cost of packaging and maintaining inventory of individual items.

Leave all hardware out of the arfs. I have developed my own likes and dislikes. Even if better hardware was included I will still use the hardware that I prefer.
Lee

Hi Lee,
I would be interested in knowing your likes an dislikes. I haven't done much building, so I have not developed a feel for what is good and what is not, as far as hardware goes.

Thanks in advance,
Jeff

On Edge (Jeff)
That was a nice compliment and I thank you. It will take me a little while to put some things together. Then I will send you some info. I will probably photo some things for you. Remembrer that some times a picture is worth a thousand words. I will be happy to share some of the better things with you.
I have trouble with my photos on RCU. I like good quality photos and they only allow you an 80K file. Would you be willing to send me your email address so I can send you good quality photos.
Again thanks for the compliments.
Lee
[email protected].

I would simply look for a different manufacturer that doesn't need to charge double retail for hardware and triple the price for the ARF and have them include good quality hardware.

On Edge
Here is one that I could make fit on RCU
I like servicible hinges. Hinges that will come apart if you damage something. I like CA hinges however they must cut out to get them apart. The hinge shown is by Dubro. They actually come with the pin out. Install the pin and install the hinge with epoxy. If you get epoxy in the hinge remove the pin and trim away the epoxy with an exacto Knife. I use these on .60 and larger airplanes.

Hi Lee,
I used CA hinges on my spacewalker. WHat I'm preparing to build now is the H9 Edge 540. Are the Dubro hinges you show acceptable for this application? I saw quite a reference to Robart hinges on this NG, do you know they are like these Dubro hinges?

Thanks,
Jeff

The Rotor hinges are hard to beat for strength and friction free.I have a Cap 232 1/3 scale by Hanger 9. there are 11 hinges in each aileron. The surfaces on this airplane are very smooth and free moving. With the Robot hinges you glue them and flex the surface one time and all of the hinges align themselves immediately no work to it. I thing this is one of the best methods for the larger airplanes. I will take a couple of photos of this plane and send the photo to you. Stay with the Robots on Scale and Giant planes. The Dubro hinges I use on funfly and planes in the .60, to.90, to 1.20 sizes.
I used CA hinges on my 3 ultra sticks.
Hopes this helps
Lee

Thanks Lee,

I appreciate all you help!

Jeff

Lee,
Is this the Robart hinge we're talking about? They're kind of strange looking. They work pretty well though?

Jeff

Yes this is the hinge. Remember we are talking about the big one. I know of a person who very carefully removed the hinge pins. and replaced them with a long piece of piano wire thus making the Surface removable. It worked very good, for the advanced builder. When do you need to install your hinges? If you can wait a few days I will send you a photo.
Lee

Lee,
I won't be hinging for days. I'll gladly wait for your picture!

Jeff

I found the Robart hinges in 1/8" and 3/16". Is the 3/16" the largest and the one I would use for the Edge?

Thanks,
Jeff