I disagree. Every single kit I've ever seen or flown, has been 20-30% heavier than an ARF counterpart. Example, the GP Tracer. A 40 sized pattern/sport plane. Flew great on a tower 46(not the most powerful engine, but certainly enough to fly any 40 sized plane). This thing struggles to get off the ground. Once in the air, it's great, heavy planes track better in the wind. But aerobatics suffered, landing distance/speed suffered, and if it went dead stick anywhere but right over the runway, it was done for. Now lets compare that to a crappy Spectrum ARF. Basically the same design. With a little TLC, it was a great flying plane, and weighed about 1.5 lbs less, WITH RETRACTS! It's performance was Leaps and Bounds beyond that kit. It was def a P.O.S. in a quality comparison, but it lived just as long, and flew allot more because of its performance.

You're right about the title of the thread. .................... yes, and let's stick to that subject Moderator ................

mitchell170, sounds like you got a lemon. Glad to hear they stepped up and replaced the defective parts. Yet another reason to stick to the afore mentioned companies.

I can't take it anymore.

Come on guys.

Kits ARE what YOU make them.

ARFs are for the most part, what the Chinese make them.

Personally, when I build, I use top quality materials, weather they come in the kit, or I have to replace replace them. I also know how to use different kinds of glue and glass to keep it strong where it needs to be, yet light as possible. I sand, don't do full overlays, and know how to rig for strength and weight reduction.

A good experienced builder can produce a better plane than anything mass produced (strength, weight, and looks included). But it comes at some cost in time and money.

Granted, a lot of kit planes get built heavy, but please, let's not blame the kits, the builders are responsible for what they produce, just as the ARF manufacturers are.

AMEN BROTHER!

Since nobody much wants to stick to the subject, let's let this thread rest awhile..................