sigrun

Yer. It's like that in Australia too at present. Either high or low wing Sky Raiders for around AUD$105 if you've the most basic negotiative skill. I suspect World Model they're trying to knock the much cheaper Vietnamese offerings from their perch. An alternative offering to the equally priced and ubiquitious Phoenix Scanner.

I've neither myself as there are simply better offerings for just a few pennies more at present, but they sure are popular and represent excellent value.

Fubar-One

My Feedback: (1)

I have seen some pretty OOGLY ARF's out there. Epoxy all over the wing, CA dripped everywhere, etc. I feel a lot more pride in my kit built planes but I do feel pride when I can assemble an ARF and keep it as pretty as it was in the box.
Can definitely feel proud of one that looks nice and has many flights on it!

IronCross

Tempting isn't it :-] .. Were considering using the low wing one for pylon racing.. Been using the T-34 but that cost twice as much ....

sigrun

Occurring with increasing frequency at my #1 field as well. Problem is most of those offering to "assemble" I wouldn't deem competent to pump air into my tyres. [&:] See the all too lamentable resultant deformation and contact with the great granite cloud associated with them all too often.

But truth is, I would too (have someone else assemble for me) if I could source it at the same 'quality' and price as the labour they were originally assembled with. I know that's simply the epitome of laziness, but I'd simply rather do nothing but fly if I could. Don't mind preventative maintenance, but I detest repairing. Fortunately I seldom, (won't risk saying never) have to do any.

Similarly with engines. Whilst once I used to find running-in an engine enjoyable, probably through the novelty then associated with it, the years have worn any novelty completely away such that I now absolutely detest it. I just lurve AAC tapered P&Ls, CNC machining and synthetics! Yeah!

sigrun

Very - for club fun pylon. Who cares about mid-airs then - or if you trash it.

Over here, and probably there, you can inexpensively source a Model Tech design called a Sonic 500. In ARF form AUD$170 (USD$120), ARC for AUD$130- Admittedly that almost 70% up on the price of a Sky Raider, but still relatively inexpensive and arguably worth the extra if you're into club pylon. Even with just an appropiately propped sport .46 up front, do these things GO! http://www.modelflight.com.au/rc_mod..._sonic_500.htm

jneesy

i'm proud of this one and i'm generally a builder this is only 1 of the 2 arfs i currently own and i probably have another 15 or so kit built planes

Freakazoid

My Feedback: (1)

I dont have space, tools, nor knowledge to build planes from scratch. I do not like wood and I do not like covering wings. Even if I did have the capability to build from scratch, I woulnd. They are to delicate for my taste. A little rough landing might destroy half a plane. I dont want to worry about that I might nick the covering that took me hours and hours to put on, I dont want to go though the trouble of rebuilding a wing because it exploded on a cartwheel landing.

Besides, I dont see the joy in sitting behind a bench forever, cutting up your nits with a hobby knife and accidenly glueing bits of balsa to various bodyparts, while trying to read the buildplan with watery eyes from the setting epoxy.

I like em foam and I like em electric, and im perfectly happy flying ARF and yes, even RTF. I preffer not to go easy on my planes, Id rather drop it like a stone in some high grass, then landing it while sweating bullets that the nosewheel holds out on the rocksolid runway. If it breaks, I just screw on a 10 dollar spare in 5 minutes and off I go again.

I do not evny someones airplane because they built it themselves. I dont care if its a 10 dollar walmart model, or a plane that someone worked on for a whole winter. If it looks cool and flies cool, it is, regardles of how it got built.

Thunderbolt47

My Feedback: (8)

Wow guys, I never expected this much response in less than 24 hours. Alot of good points here.

I can admire a plane that someone spend all winter building and flown successfully. That takes a lot of skill and patients. As said in an earlier post. You have to be skilled at putting ARF together as well. I too have seen some that where just horrible, and the assembler will blame it on the manufacturer.

One plane impaticular was my WM giant extra 300. I heard from several guys how bad this plane was to fly and this and that. The one I had was the nicest built planes I've ever seen. It was on par his my H-9 Suk. Had them guys not set there planes up proper or took the time to assemble it right? I don't know, but I sure was proud that mine flew perfect.

Kelly

ICE_MAN

Heck yeah you can be proud of an ARF! I remember the first time my Superstar took off! I felt Like I was On top of the world! I love ARF's and I like kits... Looking for a plane to scratchbuild also! You can be proud of anything. Just like a little kid proud of his newest Spiderman toy.
Kits are not everything to every one.. To each his own I guess!

IronCross

Now that Sonic is interesting... We have an open class at the club level... With an Irvine .53 I'll bet that Sonic would move...

sigrun

Awww..stop teasin...Ironcross. You know they're goin' back!

I have 4x TT Pro .46's on the way from Tower, ordered before the J'Ervine sham. Those Irvines were intended to go in Pattern models possibly with JE purple pipes, hence why I'm so carb critical for flawless throttling. But this experience has destroyed any confidence in Just Engines and soured any desire to ever deal with them again. [:'(]

jgraham10

My Feedback: (3)

One of our local hobby shops here in Wichita supports pylon racing for this airplane. He even offered a rebate if you raced three time you got most of your money back.
It was a blast to watch them fly this year, a number are looking forward to the races starting back up this spring.
Here is a link to our local clubs newsletter and a few photos of them. Page 5-9 is were the phots are.
John
[link=http://members.cox.net/wrccnews/pdf_files/dec2004.pdf]WRCC Newsletter[/link]

IronCross

What a nice flying field... The newspaper is very imprisive... Looks like a well organized group out for fun :-]

Warbird Brian

My Feedback: (2)

I'm proud of all the ARF's I own, because I put time into them to build and maintain. Some of the guys treat my electric planes as lesser toys than their liquid powered toys, but that is a whole other argument

Heck, I'm even proud of my Funky Chicken, and that plane looks totally ridiculous !! (see my avtar)

It's all about having fun with what you spend your money on, in my humble opinion.

WBB

I am proud of all these ARF's.

cwrr5

My Feedback: (32)

Speaking of the funky bird, how does that fly? I've been curious about that.

Sorry - a little off topic. I think you can be proud of just about anything really, even ARFs. (my wife calls them arf,arfs-as in dog barks ) I see my scratch built and kit planes as a larger investment in time,effort,skill?, and money, so I feel more proud of them than I would an ARF. But, I still am proud of the ARFs I fly, because they're MINE, and they fly.

ivansie

Amen brother, be proud. [8D]

I guess if you have the option of messing up the job but you did not, meaning you built, assembled, put together (whatever terminology is not offensive to some...) a good, reliable flying machine, you can certainly be proud of, as I will be too.

Actually some ARF are quite the work with people putting 20p-30 hours on them to have them right.
bye

AJF--2

My Feedback: (119)

I thought this was an interesting comment. I think this attitude may come from the fact that for many years if you wanted a nice plane you had to build it yourself. There are many people like me who can build and make a good flyer, but cannot make a GREAT LOOKING AND GREAT FLYING PLANY! This talent was reserved for a few with the gift and patience to manufacture "eye catchers". Now ARFs are a better product than probably 60% of us can build. I think that becasue anybody can now have a "great looker and flyer" the builders feel they may have been cheated. Just my thoughts, anyway.

Cowboyway and I are in the same club and we have a varity-- we have a "master builder" that does not fly and we have flyers who cannot assemble an ARF (they bought and continue to buy RTF packages) Bottom line-- it is all about the fun and challenge of RC aviation. Hey, I just noticed that I don't own an ARF at the moment. Maybe I need to change my opinion?

8178

My Feedback: (17)

Considering this was posted in the ARF section I expect there is some partiality. I think they are OK for knocking around and I expect most modelers have assembled at least a couple including myself. Everyone accepts that they are at the low end of the food chain when it comes to R/C modeling and building skills. But if you want to fly and don’t have the time or skills to build they fill the need. They really can’t be compared to a beautifully and skillfully built kit or scratch built R/C aircraft. The positive aspect of the ARFs is they attract more people to the R/C hobby because they make it easer for people to get started. That's good!

kerrydel

My Feedback: (2)

I hadn't thought about this until I read some of the posts here. Most of the guys who give me grief about ARFs are the ones who've been in the hobby for quite a while. I think part of the dislike of ARFs is jealousy. They see how easy it is to buy a really nice plane now, but remember how difficult it was when they started flying.

Just my opinion.

Kerry

cwrr5

My Feedback: (32)

"They see how easy it is to buy a really nice plane now, but remember how difficult it was when they started flying."

It's still difficult at times.... for some of us.

sigrun

Two rather astute observations there Kerry, and to the point. What's "pride" but an subjective state of irrationality after all?

Can someone please relate to me in which formula related to aerodynamics I can find it? Or perhaps how it effects the flight envelope of a model? And I am talking "pride" here, not diligence, precision and attention to detail in building or assembly which are quite different and unassociated traits.

1. "Most of the guys who give me grief about ARFs are the ones who've been in the hobby for quite a while."

This is simply a truth. A generalisation, as qualified by "most", but a truth nevertheless.

2. "I think part of the dislike of ARFs is jealousy."

And there you've hit the nail right on the head. The jealousy/envy/anger at diminished status syndrome is unquestionably more complex, but essentially it's REALLY all about ARFs affecting a formerly enjoyed status within the 'tribe'. And in the case of the particularly insecure, who are coincidentally IMO usually the most vehemently vociferous, diminishing their raison de etre with its unavoidable emotional impact upon their perception of 'worthiness'. Now <horror and hatred>, that fella' Any One can actually buy <ugh> a model RTF which to the accolade of the lay spectator and average club member appeals every bit as much, and even more annoyingly usually flies or is frequently flown better. But worst of all, theu ultimate degradation, it is is lauded with 'undeserved' accolade and approbation by all and sundry which really raises the chagrin of Cap'n Kit 'n Scratch Builder for his undisputed labours being doubly unappreciated.

As for the "can you be proud of an ARF?" nonsense.

People don't build their own cars as a rule. Nevertheless most afflicted by pride and ego are proud of their car for some inane reason. Can you buy "pride"? It certainly appears that you can?

Pride as I previously pointed out is a delusion associated with and powered by ego. Either you're affected or your not. Now here's the key. It's your choice.

The deprecatory ARF 'argument' is really not about the model. And either you get that - or you don't.

ptgarcia

My Feedback: (36)

Absolutely! The fellow you overheard made one of the most ignorant comments I've ever heard!

Roby

Can you be proud of your ARF ?

If you want to , go rite ahead , and why not ? You don't have to justify your
actions to anyone else. This is after all , just a hobby.

But stop to consider how much prouder you actually might be if you built it
and it turned out to be equal to, or better than , an off the shelf , like everyone
else's , one of many exactly like it , ARF.

Regards
Roby

aviti

My Feedback: (54)

Roby - I build kits and ARF's. Some ARF's require more time, effort and engineering than some kits. Guys who scratch build do a ton more work than someone who builds a laser cut kit that fits together like a puzzle with interlocking pieces etc.

I am proud of both the kits and the ARF's I build. For an ARF, I go the extra distance to make it really clean, straight, maybe add a real nice painted pilot...just to personalize it. Some guys throw them together, dont even iron the covering where they come wrinkled, don't take the time to mount the cowl....my plane doesn't look like his so they are not all the same.

While it is true that I feel more pride when complimented on a kit build than an ARF, I usually feel more relieved when an ARF goes in rather than a plane I spent 3 times as long to build!

tailskid

My Feedback: (34)

Can you be proud of an ARF - YES......can you be embarassed with an ARF - YES! Ever notice how some modelers' ARF's are 'neater looking' than others?????

Jerry