hello all, does anyone know if a Saito 220 will give me the power to haul around the GP 1/4 scale wagstaff? im really wanting to stay with glow if possible, but this is my first 1/4 scale and i want to do it right and still stay on a budget. i already have the Futaba 3305 servos and the wagstaff, just looking for the best, most economical motor set up. any help is appreciated. thanks!
steve[]

Moki 2.10, (otherwise known as Mark 2.10) is $200 cheaper, makes more power and uses less fuel than the Saito 2.20. And the fuel it uses is 0% or 5% nitro at about $9 a gallon.

Powerwise, the Moki/Mark 2.10 will run away and hide from a Saito 2.20.

Jim

While a Moki will develop more power at a cheaper price, the Saito 220 will pull the patty around with authority

First 1/4 scale and you want to do it right?

Then change your mind about the engine.

Put a 40cc gasser in it and save yourself the hassles and mess of glow. Not to mention the cost of the fuel. Even at $9 per gallon for the Moki.

Gasoline is about $4 per gallon after you add the 2-stroke oil. You'll get 3 or 4 times as many flights from a gallon of gas than a gallon of glow.

Saito 2.20 costs $500
Moki 2.10 costs about $350

You can buy a 40cc gasser for about the same price and fly it for 10% of the fuel cost.

The airframe will handle the weight and fly fine. You'll be much happier in the long run--trust me.

I waited a long time before I bought my first gasser. I saw other guys flying them. I knew they were better. But, I was scared of them. I was scared of the price and I was scared of the carb.

After I bought my first one--I spent the next 2 yrs. kicking myself in the ***** for waiting so long to buy a gasser. Buying a gas engine was the smartest move I ever made in this hobby.

Waiting 4 or 5 yrs to buy that first one was the stupidest thing I ever did.

Buy a gasser. Glow sucks for big planes.[:'(] It's just not practical or sensible to stick a big ole thirsty glow engine in a plane this size.

Ditto the last response. I have a Patty Extra and I put a ZDZ40 in it. The best choice I ever made. The engine with a NX 20x8 prop pulls the plane around with a lot of authority. Plenty of speed and vertical performance. The gas is cheap compared to the amount of glow fuel a big 4 or 2 stroke would use. An added benefit is practically no clean up on a gasser. Go for the gas you won't regret it.

I put a ST3000 in my Patty and with a good 18x10 prop the performance is great. This combo weighs just over 14lbs. This is a cheap setup as ST3000 can be had for around $150. It will hang on the prop but pulling verticle is marginal - I don't do much 3D stuff so I am very satisfied.

Don't forget the $70 OS 7D carb that you need to make it run right. Also don't forget the Cline regulator at $60 so that you can put your tank on the CG.

Your back up to $300 again.

I've had all the big kats. They put out power--but they are also thirsty.

If anyone thinks the Saito 2.20 is thirsty--try the ST3000 or the 4500. Those things will suck down 24oz in less than 15 minutes.

Your cost per flight with one of these things is about $3 or $4. You get 1 flight for $3.

You can mix up a gallon of gas and oil for that price. 24oz on a 40cc gasser will last you longer than you want to fly it. I'm guessing about 45 minutes.

I had a Saito 180 on a Cap and it drank fuel like you can't believe. I have a Fuji 50 on my Patty Extra and fuel burn is a fraction of the Saito. Four strokes sound great so can't fault anyone with using one.

4 Strokes are great! BUT... on a big plane like this the glows suck fuel like a AA fuel dragster. As everyone mentions its more prudent to go gas. Its scary at first but after the fact its much easier than glow motors. 40-50cc will do the trick nicely. Many great motors to choose from. You could start with Fuji or jump into ZDZ, DA, 3W.....

If your flying area has a noise issue, be aware that none of the gas engines will meet the AMA standard without a cannister (not pitts) muffler, and a cannister muffler will not fit in the Patty without major modifications.

If you want to go gas, by all means do so, but don't try to justify it with fuel cost. The difference is about $1 per flight. (Used to be $1.25, but gas prices went up.) Moki 2.10 with bisson pitts muffler is $350. DA 50 with tuned cannister muffler and ignition battery is $750. How long will it take you to put 400 flights on it, just to break even?

Jim

Well I'm definitely in the gasser camp...

I'm at 4500' above Sea Level here and you lose about 20 to 25% of the engine power output during the Summer. I wanted to try gas but was just scared of it. I bit the bullet and went with a ZDZ-50, I've never looked back. I've still got a couple of smaller models with glow engines and it just never ceases to amaze me how much of that $25.00 a gallon 30% CP fuel they'll go through, along with the mess to clean up afterward, glow starters, 12 volt electric starter motors...

Gas will be a bit heavier my Patty is 16lbs 2oz, still within the manufacturers listed weight range and with that ZDZ-50 swinging a 22x8 Mejzlik it will do just about anything you want, or are capable of...

The Patty on a ZDZ 50 is wonderful. Vertical like you wouldn't believe! But even more fun is my buddies Wagstaff with a ZDZ 80 Digi servo's and the 14MZ. I have been flying for over 20 years, and I have never felt, in a plane, the difference because of the new technology. Yes he orginally had a 9C with standard servos, he put the 14MZ with the Digi servos and it FELT different! But to answer the question, yes Gas is great for the larger applications.

Personally, I think the Saito 220 price is ridiculous. You can buy might decent 40-60cc gassers for about $500. I'll have to agree that gasser is the way to go with the GP Patty.

I can understand why someone would want to stay glow. It may be the familiarity factor, or it may be the initial cash outlay limit. Even though I am a big gasser fan for giant scale stuff, I still keep a few big glow motors around. These days, I don't get to go to the flying field too often, so fuel cost is not that big a deal. Now if you pratice IMAC or 3D on a daily basis, that'll be a different story. Plus, think about it, these days most of the "fuel cost" is probably spent driving to the flying field and back in your SUV or truck. For me, it's a $4 roundtrip gas bill eveytime I go to the field. Back when gas was $3/gal, it was more like $6 a trip.

I also have so many different planes, some of which just sit around all year in the hanger. It's hard to justify hanging $500+ engines on them. So..., if you really want to stay glow, the Moki/Mark 2.10 is the best bet for the Patty.

Few people here put in BME 50's

We have a couple of these flying at our feild.....both flying with FUJI 50's.......Go GAS, once you go to gas it you will be in love with it....alot less of a mee to clean and alot cheaper for the fuel...... Don't get me wrong I still like to fly my GLOWS but gas is just alot easier....give it a try, you'll love it. I think the FUJI 50's run around $400......probably find one on RCU for cheaper.

If you already have the Saito 220 use it. It will be fine. I have a Moki 1.8 in mine and it flies with power to spare. If you do not already have the motor, then you have other issues to consider. I agree that you cannot justify purchasing a gasser over what you may already have for fuel economy alone,,,, that is just simple math.

have a da 50 on mine, but I think if I were to do it again i would patiently wait for a used BME 44 or 50 to show up on yhe net, get a nice gently used gas engine. my $.02

I want to know of someone who is flying the patty with an OS 1.60fx.

I have one of these new, just hanging around, and I have a Fuji 50ei on the shelf too.
I had ear marked the Fuji for my GP Christen Eagle, but would use it for the Patty if it kept it light enough.
I like the idea of using the OS, just because you are looking at nearly a 2lb in weight saving, and I like to fly light.

I just calculated the weight difference between running the OS and the Fuji.
Using the standard muffler with the fuji and the BCM pitts with the OS, the OS come out to just under 38oz, where the Fuji will run about 78oz, inlcuding the battery, muffler, EIS and engine, that's 40oz, 2.5lb more than the OS.

I have a patty with a DA50, awsome combo. My mate has the OS160 in his. The 160 wont 3D nearly as well but for normal aerobatics its perfect. Be careful if you deadstick, its light and will float for ages. Its a great combo and much cheaper that the DA.

You must be the first person I have heard say that it flys OK for NON-3D flying on an OS 1.60.
Thanks for the info.

I fly a 10 lb Goldberg Sukoi with the OS 160FX and a BME 50cc in my Patty. I couldn't imagine the 160fx pulling the Patty with ANY authority. Sure it will fly, but the Patty is a 17-18lb plane easy. Including a smoke system of course.

Just so happens I have one with an OS 160 and Pitts style muffler.....Hitec digital 5645's all the way around...no smoke...carbon fiber landing gear with Lite Sullivan wheels and no wheel pants.

What a great all around flier......she performs all the classic manuevers I can do (and probably a lot of fancy stuff I can't). During the summer I throw 'er in the back of the van when I go to work in the morning and head right out to the field for a couple of hours of flying after work.

I know that this plane/engine combo will never 3D but that's why I'm putting one together now with a DA50R and Hitec 5945's and a complete smoke system!

I give a great big "double thumbs up" on this one.

Bill

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JRF makes a good point - but sometimes you just want to hear a monster "PUTT!". <G>

I'm waiting for the gas version of the Saito 2.20. That should be a hoot. Still, it won't hold a candle to the Moki 2.10 or MVVS 35cc engines (gas or glow).

I have a Zenoah G62 Lite standing by for my Patty. Once the new 2.4 GHz Spektrum SS rig proves itself in my Giant Big Stik with a gasser on the front, I'll move it over to the Patty and load up the G62 Lite from Ralph Cunningham's R/C Ignitions. No worry then about spooking the R/C system with ignition noise. IF the system lives up to its advertising, which I have no doubt that it will.

But, to answer the OP's question in a round-about manner, I would be very surprised if the Saito 2.20 didn't perform perfectly in the Wagstaff Extra.


Ed Cregger

DA50R set it and forget it....you wont regret it.

I'll second that comment!