jugman80

Has anyone built one of the above aircraft & incurred engine problems?? The engine needs to be inverted but we fear that the tank may be at the wrong height. We are using an O$ 46LA but after my partner spent a week kindly assembling this beastie, installed the engine ect & then down to the flying field, the gremlins appeared.... Cowl on,engine starts & then stops ect so the cowl then removed, still probs..agghhh! If anyone has any advice, truly appreciated also if any info regarding how this aircraft flies ( when the gremlins are course! )..Many thanks, Sara.

Cyclic Hardover

My Feedback: (3)

I have several planes with inverted engines in size up to a BGX3500. They all run fine because I lower the tank. If you don't, you will continue to have problems. Some people start their plane upside down on a stand, thenturn it over real quick and take off. This is stupid when the problem can be easily fixed. You will also have continuous tuning issues

tIANci

All my planes that came inverted had no mods, H9 Aresti, TT Spirit, WM Rambler 45, Seagull Harrier 90 and a few more. I ran 2C and 4C engines. They all usually had slight problems firing up the first time for the day, after that it was ok. At the most I only need an electric starter. I think its in tuning the engine patiently, thats all. No magic to it.

There are a few Tucanos at my flying field, I see them flying more than fiddling with the engines. I flew my pal's with an OS70FS and it was nice to fly especially on a higher pitch prop. Anything of 7" or more is nice. It will tip stall on you if you try to come in way too slow. The tapered wings cause that and its not that bad just do not expect it to come in like some other low wing sport plane. Come in with a little speed, it does not need to come in hot.

Woody 51

I have not had a problem running the engine in mine, but I did have problems with cowl assembly.
My original choice of engine was an MVVS .49, then a Super Tigre G.51, but I soon discovered that I was going to have to cut the entire front out of the cowl to get either of these to fit, as the carby's sit at a different angle to OS type engines. Also in both cases the cowl front would have fouled the throttle arm.
A switch to an old series 2 Magnum .46XL, swinging a Bolly 10.5 x 7, solved the problem.
The angle of the carby in relation to the crankshaft and head made the Magnum a neat fit. It is obvious that this model is designed around an OS type engine profile and dimensions.
But the trade off for me is performance. And as I do not wish to go and shell out any more cash for an OS AX or TT Pro, (I've got enough engines in the engine drawer as it is.) I'll just have to live with it. Fitting a GMS (Tower) type semi tuned muffler has helped a little.
As for how it flies? A marvellous model! Smooth, precise and very aerobatic, with no vices. Good glide.
Another at my local club has an Enya .54 4 stroke up front and it does everything mine does.
Jugman, what Nitro content are you using? One little trick with inverted engines is to up the nitro content a couple of %.

jugman80

Hello,

Many thanks for your response. We have now successfully resolved the engine problems after numerous problems with the carb & needle valve assembly ( does not help with the cowl shape of the Tucano..) though appreciate your comment regarding fuel, at present we use Red Line 5% nitro. Last week did go deadstick though probably due to my partner practising outside loops, spins & the hot weather combined!

As you say, the model flies superb! Smooth aerobatics & easy to fly, I still nned the courage to perform the above spins & outside loops though!! Women fliers....

Best regards & thanks again!

Sara

Woody 51

Sara, The Tucano is good enough to use in a Pattern comp in the lower classes as it is very precise. With an engine like the OS .46 AX up front, it will knife edge with ease an very little rudder input.

Spins are no big deal with this bird. Just make sure you are at least "3 mistakes " high before you commence. It will stop spinning within 1/2 a turn of you releasing the TX sticks. Then just ease on some up elevator and apply power as the nose comes up.
You will need to have at least 12 mm elevator throw to get it to spin. Good luck

Dave

M64

On your Tucano just keep the revs up otherwise you will flood the glowplug.

the first 2 or 3 flights for the day I have to turn my plane upside down to start it and then it starts fine for the rest of the day.

I have a Thunder Tiger Pro 46 on mine and it is perfect.

Hope this info helps...

M64

da Rock

Sara,
The 46LA has an airbleed carb if I remember correctly. They add just a bit of bother to handling but not much else. And inverted engines don't always need their tanks lowered. What they all need is to sort out your fueling and choking steps. Those steps are really far more important to getting an engine started than most people think.

Once the engine is running, does it throttle up without stumbling? If it stumbles, adjust the airbleed until it doesn't. Airbleed affects the dependability of starting a bit more than a lowspeed needle does. If an airbleed isn't adjusted, those engines can be a pain. It's gotta be right before you'll have a chance to find out what else could be wrong.

Someone mentioned turning the airplane over to crank it. This takes some effort to do. But it's an excellent test to prove or disprove if the inverted installation is hurting. Find an old control line flyer, especially one who flew stunt, to help. Good chance he'll know how to safely and surely handle the airplane.

Do you know how to safely turn the prop through till it bumps? It's often used to finger choke the engine.

But with most airbleed carb engines, using an electric starter and a proper throttle setting often works straight out. Just fuel the plane and set the throttle about 3 clicks from closed. The carb will be almost closed. With an airbleed carb, this causes the engine suction to be more than adequate to pull the fuel lines full. That is, if you're using an electric starter in about 3 second bursts. Some airbleed carb engines actually start best with the throttle either one click open or at the minimum idle setting. But they have to do this from "dry". Dry means no finger choking.

There are a couple of ways to finger choke. Most everyone knows the "finger over the venturi" technique. Put one thumb over the venturi and with the prop FIRMLY held, turn the prop a few revolutions. Don't flip it. That thumb is in danger if you're not holding the prop securely. Another way is used when you're running muffler pressure. Simply put a finger over the muffler exhaust pipe and turn the engine through a couple of times. If you have a holder who's helping start the airplane, have them reach up with a spare hand and seal the exhaust while you're applying the electric starter. As soon as the engine fires, uncover that exhaust. (Or the engine will do it for you........ truth is, you're wanting to let go as soon as the engine shows life, or you can see the fuel line fill.)

da Rock

Watching the delivery line to the carb is a valuable thing to do.

When you're fueling, if the line fills that's good. If it fills early on in the fueling, that might not be so good. If that happens, look into the intake to see if it's flooding. Inverted engines usually just drip, which is good. It helps keep them from flooding during the fueling.

If the fuel line doesn't fill during the fueling, that's good too. You know for sure the engine is not getting flooded. But you know that the engine is dry to begin with. Try it that way. If it works, good. But expect to probably need to "exhaust choke" it if it doesn't want to draw fuel to fill the lines. And know that you'll probably need the throttle almost closed for sure. No engines draw best with the throttle wide open. They get some help from a pump and maybe from muffler pressure, but they're not drawing well. Close the throttle and the draw plus the others works.

palmas

hi folks,i myself purchased a phoenix model tucano.this is the first time i have researched results from fellow aviators using the web , i have to say i have never seen so many different results with so many deifferent 2 and 4 stroke setups.I chose this model due to its apparent performance,ie to become a replacement for my aging 40 size stick.if i have read thru correctly it seems to me that the magnum 52 2 stroke should give adequate performance.if anyone has tried this set up pls let me know how it came out and how badly the cowling will have to be mauled to make it fit.many thanks in advance. joe

Woody 51

Hi Joe,
I now have a series III ASP .52 2 stroke in my Tucano. It is identical to the Magnum.52. The cowl fitted with little mangling. I used a dremel tool with a router bit to cut a hole between the air intake opening under the prop driver opening, to allow room for the carby, as the carb did prevent the cowl from fitting correctly.

I also dremeled a small concave opening just under the carby hole to allow better airflow into the carby.

To strengthen this latter section (as the cowl was now a lot thinner at this point) I epoxied a small piece of brass fuel tank tubing across on the inside. So far it has stood up well.

Naturally you will have to cut out a piece for the nose wheel and drill a hole the carby needle and idle speed screw. No big deal. Just ensure that the piece cut for the nose wheel is big enough to allow for sufficient hot air exit.

I have attached a couple of photos of the nose so you can see what I did.

As for the muffler, you can chose between an inverted type muffler such as the unit that Slimline makes to suit the OS .40-.46. SF (Slimline part no 3208, pic below. You will also have to drill and tap it for a pressure fitting and cut the twin pipes to get the correct length for your model if you use this one) or the stock one supplied with your engine.

I used the stock muffler and found that I also had to use a Dubro Muffler Extension ( Dubro part no 638, pic below) because the muffler made contact with the cowl side. The extension stopped this.

I also fitted a remote filling valve.

One other mod. My model had self tapping wood screws to secure the nose wheel leg mounting block. I junked them, as well as the supplied wheels which were "square."
In place to secure the aforementioned nose wheel block, I used 2 pairs of machine screws and matching blind nuts.

As for the wheels, I used 2.5 inch Dubro's.

Prop is an 11 x 7 RAM (from the U.K.) and the spinner is a Tru Turn.

jdbrowning

Lots of good info here. Thanks everyone. I'm at the point of installing the engine, a Thunder Tiger Pro 46. The instructions say, "the distance from the firewall to the front of the engine thrust washer should be 100mm." Does this sound right? In test fitting, this seems very tight to the firewall. Is the CG balance right with this measurement?

I've also read of references to the pre-installed engine mount as not being centered, and so the mount needs to be moved 3/8ths to 1/4 inch to have correct engine alignment. Is this right?

Looking for any advice on these issues.

Thanks, Jim

palmas

Hi Jim, hope you are doing fine.my tucano has a mag.52 2c,and my tank is higher than it should be,so you may have flooding issues at start up.It is very annoying having to get it started when you need a flying buddy to hold the plane upside down until it runs for the first flt of the day.I usually allow a 1/4" from the back of the spinner to the ont front of the cowling, then i used blue scotch tape and mark on the outside of the fuse against the back of the cowling.if it lines up you should secure the cowling as you prefer.I use scrap mounting blocks and glue them around the face of the firewall and shaping them around to the edge of the firewall.this way once you measure from the c/l of the mounting blocks to the edge of the blue tape on the fuse you can drill and secure the cowling that will last indefinetely.I did not make any adjustments to the engine mount/firewall.I did invest in a 2 1/2" alum spinner.the one i got with my arf lasted only 3 flts b-4 it came apart.If i have missed anything pls let me know. I know this minor issues can drive you crazy,but on a happy note this plane is superb!!! very fast,fully aerobatic,great vertical performance,I have done 6 aileron rolls continously in this model,and it does this better than my .46 stick,also the recommended control surface throws are right on the money,use them for first trials and go from there.i almost forgot with a magnum.52 it was a little too nose heavy,so i had to add a short strip of lead weight to the bottom of the horizontal stab,and painted it red to hide it. happy landings!

billd76

My Feedback: (3)

I have a FOx 45BB on my tuncano. fits nicely in the cowl. I too have to start mine inverted for the first time at the field. At first the tank was mounted way to high, fuel tube would fill quickly and fuel would dump out of the carb. I cut a 1/4 inch out of the bottom fuse tank support and that put the tank right where it needed to be, no more flooding. It flies nice and really looks good in the air. Glides in great for landing. I have my CG set 100mm back from the leading edge. I have not noticed any bad habits with this plane. I do feel that the 45 BB in a bit under powered. I have a 46 LA that I thought about dropping in, but the 45BB should have more power than the 46LA. What prop are you using with the 46 LA? There is an excellent build thread for the tucano on this forum, just do a search. Mine is grounded at the moment, just switched to 2.4, need a new 2.4 RX before I put it back in the air. My old FM TX just isn't acting right. So will have to wait. I love this plane though. The Phoenix line of models seems to suit me. I have the Super decathlon as well. I have been told by some at the field that the more you fly the inverted engine the easier it will become to start. Good lukc and have fun with it.