ARFs, build in 15 to 20 hours. Is this possible? Im in the middle of three projects and all have needed mods to some degree.

First let me say this, ARFS seem to be of very high quality overall and I will probably continue to purchase. I have been building airplanes for approx. 8 years, and I know what it takes to put one together. It is also so nice to open up a very large box and take out a brightly covered beautiful airplane already built...kinda ...But..... usually upon close inspection, (sometimes not so close) you find things that just may not be quite right with your new pride and joy.

And another thing, I do NOT expect ARFs to be perfect! I would like certain things to be right though, as certain things would take more work to fix than just to build one from a kit.

Here are my current projects and problems:

DP Extra 330L ARF-

-one wing panel had a warp (I fixed)
-same wing panel was "thinner" than other! (I fixed)
-made numerous mods due to flutter problems experienced by others here at RCU
-stab tubes mounted in fuse were not aligned properly

H9 Cap 232 1/3 scale

-left stab did not slide onto stab tubes (replaced stab)
-one stab sat lower than other in the rear due to tubes mounted in stab were not positioned just right (I fixed)
-rudder warped (replaced) new rudder was warped also! (I fixed)
-ailerons warped (badly!)
-hardpoints for horns only on bottom of surfaces not much meat between! There is soft balsa on top surfaces! Im replacing with hardpoints for the recommended Rocket city hardware (at least the DP extra 330 had a balsa block that filled the cavity between bottom and top and I put hard points in it as well and used rocket city hardware)
-double bevels are horribly not right! I have had to re sand most all the double bevels!


Im finding certain things about these high dollar ARFs that could use some attention. It would be nice if the stuff that is supposed to be self aligning or presanded before covering could be QA'd a little better. Sanding lessons would be nice for the MFG workers! Im finding that a lot of hard sanding is done in some areas and light sanding in other areas.

Again, I realize these are ARFS! They are almost ready to fly, but not really!

I have already had to recover my wings from my DP extra 330, recover my elevators from my Cap 232 . These are from either mods or fixes made. I will be doing the same with my Caps ailerons. Since I have built planes before, this is not so hard for me other than taking up my time. I wonder if more inexperienced builders would be able to make the mods in 15 to 20 hours! Or are people just slapping these high dollar kits together in a couple of evenings, and just figuring "it'll fly!". Im just curious. The only ARF I have owned in the past two years that did not require any mods or take any extra time to build was my Sig Somethin Extra! Go figure! Anyway, it would be very hard to build an aircraft to the completed stage that most ARFS arrive in such a short time, but please Mfgs, please do a little more QA!

OH yeah, and please keep these BIG Beautifull ARFS a coming! The good in them more than outways the bad!

Now thats a good question..... we pay some big $$ for our giant scale arf's, and we expect them to be built the way WE ourselves would build them...alot of TLC, reinforcements in all the right places, and a tight covering job. Ever count the total # of hours it takes to build and cover a large bird from a kit? WOW, I'm building a .40 size bipe right now from a kit and talk about labor hours!!

Unfortunatley, the arf manufacturers cannot put all those man hours into each plane, or they would soon go belly up! Then no more big arf's!

When I buy an arf, big or small, I always expect to put SOME time into it to get it just like I want....reinforcing the landing gear block...tightning the covering, double checking high stress areas, etc.

I think the majority of the arfs are sound right out of the box, but it never hurts to give a good once over :}

I can't believe the problems you had with your H9 1/3 CAP. Mine was perfect, and I mean perfect, out of the box. I didn't even have to reshrink the covering. The wing to fuse and stab to fuse fit was spot on. The cowl fit was spot on. Best quality ARF I have ever seen and I have built quite a few from a lot of different manufacturers.

I hope they do a new and improved Extra, with attention given to the weight.

Craig.

It is possible if you work straight through without eating or stopping to admire your work.

Yak

Hi Matt,

Thanks for your reply!

I realize putting all the TLC comes in by the assembler not the MFG. I would hope that they train their workers in sanding! Should be some kind of a requirement just to build a plane. I do not expect all the reinforcements or the tightest of covering jobs out of the box. I can and will do that myself. My only concern is getting parts that are warped or dont quite fit right. Normally things that dont fit can be made to fit relatively easily but things like stab tubes that are already epoxied in to stab halves and fuses, take a little time to fix. Im not asking for a "perfect" plane, as I like to take the extra time that is needed to make it "my plane", and that is part of the hobby. When buying an arf, I do expect or would like to expect to get straight wings and fuses, and if stab tubes are preinstalled, for them to be aligned. If the MFGs cannot get these procedures done properly, then leave it for me to do! Like I said earlier, I think the ARF quality is overall great, just some minor hick ups! Im not so sure an inexperienced builder or non builder person would attempt to fix these problems! Maybe I just got a couple of kits that are out of the norm! I have to say, my DP extra is looking awesome and my Cap is coming along!

Dont get me wrong here, Im not trying to bash! Just got some concerns that I feel could be addressed. Oh by the way, I know that it takes hours to build a kit! My first kit (first airplane) 9 years ago was a Goldberg Anniversary Cub! Took me over a year to complete! I kept messing up! Then I was traveling with my job, ect. ect. I think I rebuilt the wing halve twice.... maybe three times! I was very inexperienced and used 30 minute epoxy to glue the ribs ha! ha! I later found out about CA, and boy has my world changed! My Cub is still flying today, and if flies wonderfully! One of my best planes!

BUCKEYES WIN 31 to 24 What an amazing game!!!! I Cant sleep!

WELL considering that most of the stuff is assembled in asian countries where they work little 8 yr old children 18 hrs a day for a buck... probably shouldnt expect it to be perfect.. they want to go home to sleep for a few hours before they have to do it all again.. but its up to us to go over it with a fine tooth comb. ive had a few arf's that were not perfect but no big deal just fix it and move on.. but im sure that not all manufactures use this way... some do their own assembly and as stated earlyer yes they should be q-a 'ed better but is it really possible?? ehh.... i dont know... but as long as im gonna fly, im gonna buy arf's just because i really couldnt build a straight wing to save my life... i can cover them pretty well and fly them pretty well so for me building is out of the question.. but i know nothing replaces the confidence of putting together a kit on ones own and the assurance that it is done right.. sorry to rant im in one of those moods today

I have seen assembled kits that make me shake with fear every time they leave the ground. There are builders out there that I wouldn't let put gas in my plane, for them ARF's are a blessing {us too come to think of it}. There are also builders that do such an amazing job no ARF could ever hope to come close, and if they did, we wouldn't be able to afford it.

Well Guys-as far as quality goes,what I expected and what I received is a little different.Duraplanes Trainers and Areobat is the best I have built so far.Everything you need to complete-it's in there (the box).Also the Aircore Colt 40 SLT low-wing-it's all there and in good condition.I am not going to bash a certain manufacturer here-they are all human and make some mistakes,but is Lanier so big now that they can't reply to any E-mails?
Mike