Mr.Extra 260

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After I demolished my .46 size trainer in a crash I mine as well keep the equipment and put it in another .46 size plane. My main qeustion is which one flys best??? Will any hover with a .46? I am looking for a 3d capable but not monster. I also like to do pattern. Anyone had experience with any???

Mr.Extra 260

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Has anyone flown one of these?

Mr.Extra 260

My Feedback: (11)

I got the extra

MasterAlex

I've had the Pheonix Models Extra 300s for a few months now. I really like it. I'm not a 3D pilot - but believe you can expect a good pattern platform. I replaced a great deal of the hardware that came with the ARF, screws, fuel tank, wheels, etc. The cowl was excellent, however. I have an OS .46 FX on mine and would recommend that engine (or similar).

I would definitely purchase another plane from Pheonix - as long as you're prepared to upgrade some of the hardware you'll be happy. Let us know how it turns out.

-MA

forestroke

i'm surprised that no one has said that maybe these planes are not suitable for him.

Mr. Extra - may i suggest that you don't go for one of those "scale" aerobatic planes quite yet. if you're looking for something more aerobatic, a funtana or UCD may be better. if you're looking for a low wing trainer, a WM SS40 or Kyosho Calmato Sport or a full range of low wing ARFs may be better for you.

i'd be a little concerned about someone that put in his trainer then wants to fly one of those planes. my trainer survived far past my training days. i removed all the equipment and put it on my second plane and that's how i would recommend you do it, too.

sorry to burst your bubble!

Mr.Extra 260

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Trust me I am fine! I fly giant scale imac. I think I can handle a little .40 size planes. The reason for the crash was a 20 mile per hour cross wind that I made a dumb thumb move into a tree. You didnt burst my buddle because I have flown 40% planes for a month now not saying they are any harder to fly than a trainer. Take a look at my profile to see the pics. Well anyways I would still like to have info on the extra.

forestroke

okay then. if i were you and i had something on the 27%~40% scale, i'd go for a fun plane like a decathalon or a bipe. you can the sukhois, giles and extras in the larger sizes which will be not only more scale but easier to fly, particularly 3D.

Slyder

If you want 3d with the .46 I would go with a profile.
I took me a long time to get past the looks but once I got one it was a blast. They are cheap enough that there was no fear of getting low and wild. Taught me alot for when I went bigger.

Mr.Extra 260

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I finished the extra today but I have a question. What is with the three tubed tank? Their are two vents? the vent that sticks down in the tank leaks out the fuel tubing. Is this normal? this the tubing that goes through the bottom of the cowl and isnt connected to anything. Is it alright if I plug it? I will post pics tommaroo.

adrenalnjunky

My Feedback: (18)

the 3 line tank for a 2 stroke engine is usually using the 3rd line as a fill/drain. That keeps you from having to install a T-fitting on your carb line to fuel the plane. You have one line straight to carb, one to the muffler for pressure, and the additional line runs to either a fuel fitting like the Slimline F1 series, or the Great planes fitting, or you just run the 3rd line out the bottom of the cowl and plug it with a fuel dot/plug when you're flying.

Just make sure that the 3rd piece of brass tube in the tank either is bent down far enough to suck all the fuel out of the tank, or that you put a piece of tubing on it with a clunk so that you can empty the tank fully after flying.

Mr.Extra 260

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Well I crashed on the 3rd flight. I dont know why. the first two take offs were shaky and the third time I couldnt gain any altitude. The wings were rocking and it was nose up the first two flights were the same and luckley I got some alttitude and it flew fine. Although it was hard to turn right for some reason. It felt like it was going to stall every time I tried. the landings were fine. Why would this happen???

Mr.Extra 260

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Has anyone had a simmilar experience? The cg is set up right. I dont think the plane has enough power. even though it is a newley aquired os 46

adrenalnjunky

My Feedback: (18)

what did the plane weigh,and what prop were you running on the os 46? Was it a 46 FX or AX, or the cheaper LA series?

Cyclic Hardover

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your altitude is giving you a beating, your 46 is performing much less than you think, I suggest if you can fit a 50-60 size, to install it.

Mr.Extra 260

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The plane came out at 6.1 pounds dry. I am running the apc 11x something. I have the cheap la series. Any suggestions?

adrenalnjunky

My Feedback: (18)

That's the culprit then, in my opinion. You have/had an issue with an underpowered airframe. The LA 46 is a good dependable motor, but it's not a powerhouse by any means. On a plane with more wing and a little more forgiving airfoil, and the 46 would probably be fine, but you're flying a relatively aggressive aerobatic airfoil, tapered wings, and not a lot of wing area. Aerobatic planes need a lot of power to keep the wing producing lift. If you're going to really enjoy this airframe, I would say move up to something like a .61 FX, or the Evolution .61. Or the Tower .61 and .75 - stay away from the Tower .46.

If your LA46 were in a 6.1lb trainer, it would fly fine all day long, no issues - maybe even on a 6lb Sig 4*, but to get good aerobatic performance on that powerplant, I would think you'd need to stay in the 5 - 5.5lb range at most. Our club runs a club-rules pylon race and the LA46 is the required engine, cause it's cheap, easy to tune, and durable. On a 4-4.5 lb Lanier Predator Quickie 500 plane with a 10x7 prop- it really moves those light planes around.

I would run no more than a 11x5 or 6 on that LA 46 on 20% fuel.

Mr.Extra 260

My Feedback: (11)

So a .61 or 75 wont make the plane to nose heavy? I am used to big powerfull planes any way. With an engine like that would I be able to hover? I couldnt at full throttle by any means with this engine.

Mr.Extra 260

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Also any leads on why it wanted to stall on right turns? could it be lateral balance? The plane didnt want to roll left.

camss69

My Feedback: (46)

Why are there only phoenix models to choose from?

adrenalnjunky

My Feedback: (18)

A few quick comments - you can take them or leave them, but I think they're pretty much going to directly relate to your dilemma:

1. Power to weight is nothing if you're killing your wingloading. High wingloading means a stall happy plane, that is not going to fly 3D well.

2. The Phoenix Extra is not a 3D machine. There are very few 40-46 size planes that are going to perform like a 25 - 40% anything. That's why most small 3d planes are lightly built, and have nice big thick wings like a Funtana/Twist/Ucan do/Mojo/Harrier etc - then, that makes them less precise for IMAC type flying.

3. 3D flight is a whole lot more than just hovering an airplane.

Now back to your questions:

Well, you're talking about a 10oz difference from the LA46 to a 61Fx, or either of the Tower motors. It's your choice - the problem here is you have a plane with very little wingarea, but it is already over the 6lb mark, and Extras like to tipstall to begin with. You might be better off looking at something like a Saito 72, or OS Surpass 70. If you have the $$$ and didn't want to add any weight (which is a good thing) - Look at the OS 50SX - lots of power there, real screamer of an engine. It weighs barely more than the 46 you have now.

When you look at it this way - that 40% Edge in your gallery, probably requires at least 8 servos similar to the JR 8611, or the Hitec HS-5955 - @ $114 each you're talking a minimum of $900 in servos alone - another $300-500 on battery system, wiring, Receivers, Control horns and linkages, and $1600-2000 for something like a DA150 or 3W 160 - look at how much cost you have there. Splitting hairs over powerplants for a $110 ARF shouldn't be a consideration.

As for the question about the rolling - Check the wing for warps - hold it up and look down the leading and trailing edges, are either bowed or warped significantly? Check for twists from root to tip - if none are present, then the wings are fine. Do your control surfaces move freely? When you feed in left and right on your transmitter do the ailerons muve equally in each direction? Lateral balance is never going to keep a plane from simply performing a roll, unless you're talking abot a ton of difference, like an entire wing panel missing, or your buddies played a trick and poured plaster down in your wing while you weren't looking.

Did the plane want to keep rolling the other direction on it's own, or did it trim out pretty much normal for hands off straight and level? If so - I'm guessing you might have lost a servo in flight, forgot to plug one up, or something is keeping an aileron from deflecting properly.

I've built combat planes out of gutterpipe and hand cut foam wings that were plenty maneuverable - if you're experienced with that 27% Extra 260, and 40% Edge in your gallery - assembled them yourself, and they are set up and fly perfectly - then figuring out issues with a 46 size ARF that was assembled per the instructions, shouldn't be that big of a deal.

forestroke

took the words right out of my mouth. this is a most peculiar thread.

forestroke

i think adrenalnjunky has some great points. the only things i'd add are:

increase take off speed - unlike a trainer or your gasser, a glow acrobatic plane of this size will need to be travelling much faster before it's ready to take to the skies. this would explain the wing rocking and the stalling. use more of the runway. this is even more important since your plane is underpowered with a 46la

check your elevators - make sure that they are even when they are at neutral and deflect at the same rate. i've had planes that planes that had uneven elevators. i'd trim ailerons for a certain speed then once i changed the throttle, the plane would roll again. was frustrating but eventually with the elevators even, it flew wonderfully.

richen the mixture - although i assume that the engine is broken in from your trainer and that you already have some experience with glow engines, remember that you need to richen the mixture a bit so it doesn't lean out when your flying at speed or climbing at a steep angle. i'd recommend the vert test before every flight

err on the side of conservative CG - you're cg is "right" may infer that it's within the range of the manufacturer. however, i'd suggest that you try a more conservative CG at first (more forward) while still in the manufacturer's range and move it back as you get use to flying it

and last but not least

don't think that it's easier to fly a small plane - it's not that big planes are harder to fly, they are just much more expensive and far more dangerous when out of control so beginners generally don't fly them. so don't think that because you can do some stuff on the larger planes, that it will translate directly to your ability to control smaller planes.

and to add to those that recommend a different engine. i completely agree. i think the 46LA is completely out of place in that plane. you should at least have a 46FX or AX. but as someone mentioned before, if you've got the money, i'd suggest an O.S. 91 or a Saito 82~100 fourstroke for your purposes. i'd suggest a YS63 but i'm afraid that's probably going to send you into a tizzy trying to get it to run right.

forestroke

forgot to add:

GOOD LUCK!!!

Mr.Extra 260

My Feedback: (11)

The plane is already tail heavy. Would it hurt to put in a supertigre .60?

adrenalnjunky

My Feedback: (18)

Right - and a tailheavy plane is not as likely to fly well in the situation you are seeing - very pitch sensitive, and will baloon on you badly on final approach. Moving CG forward helps fix that.

Think of your plane having a "balance point" right in the middle of the manufacturer's suggested range. That point should never move in your mind. CG can move, but the balance point shouldn't. Moving the CG forward of that balance point by adding nose weight (either with a bigger engine, adding weight , or moving your batteries as far forward as possible, etc...) will help balance the plane. Since you say you need nose weight anyway, then a bigger engine can't hurt - if you're going to add weight, why not add power as well?

I can't say anything about the Supertigre 60 - never flown one, never worked on one. Don't think I've ever seen one in person. Matte rof fact, I dodn't even know they made a 60 - all I see listed on Tower's site are 61's - either in a ringed or ABC version - prices are cheap, and that should be the first warning sign. The next issue I would have is that of all the engines that have been suggested, including the Saito 91 and 100, the Supertigre 61 is the heaviest(by 6-8 ounces), and it doesn't really have a very high Horsepower spec either.