jmohn

After just finishing building a DO 335, I like ARFs ! The DO 335 kit was a major pain to build as I re-scaled the plans and electrified the plane. It took a lot of parts fabrication to get the plane finished. I am afraid to fly it because of all the hours spent building the plane.

There are so many kits and ARFs out there I don't know why we are having this argument. I tend to look for ARFs or kits with glass fuzes as I don't like to spend my time putting rivets and panel lines on the planes. If I can't find a nice quality ARF, then I will build a kit.

Jeff

loser

My Feedback: (37)

ED,
You hit the nail on the head. We have two totally seperate hobbies today....RC Modeling and RC flying. I do both kits and ARF's and am a pretty decent builder and a very good flyer. When i am at the field I enjoy and respect watching the Pro level flyers fly but when I am walking the pits looking at planes I dont give any ARFS a second glance. What catches my eyes are the kit or scratch built beauties that someone put their skills and creativity into. I guess I am a bit more of a modeler than flyer...lol. To each their own.....

Steve

pettit

My Feedback: (23)

I would love to build a kit or two but none of the major manufacturers have been making anything new these days.

And I am talking about manufacturers who actually have a storefront or a web site and they mass produce kits.

Not just some "garage shop" who cuts kits one at a time.

If you folks have any suggestions about new kits (they have to be "IMAA Legal", because that's all I review) let me know.

Thanks

ram3500-RCU

My Feedback: (221)

Yea Barry, I admire your generosity and enthusiasm for the hobby and furthering it's growth. You are, I'm sure, well known in your area , very well liked, and a credit to our hobby.

I have found the need over the years, having a large family, to get support for my hobby financially, from the abilities I have to do what others can't do, won't do for whatever the reasons, or don't have time to do. I enjoy supporting others this way while making my own involvement possible. While most of the time, it seems I work for minimum wage, I'm at home in my shop, doing something I love to do, and it pays for supplies and parts usually.

I would love a site called, maybe, "Trade-A-Plane", just for RC planes and exclusively for trades, or 'hanger reductions' and no money. Sometimes ya just need something new and fresh to get excited about. And it would be nice if we didn't have to turn to Chinese ARFs for a quick fix. Perhaps this is something RCU could do. Would be a little different than what we have now. It isn't quite the same as the 'will trade' option we have now.

NM2K

My Feedback: (14)

-----------------


I like that reference to ARFs being a "quick fix". In fact, I may design a model named Quick Fix and borrow this as a name, if you don't mind.

ARFs are an adjunct to my hobby these days. Sometimes the young'uns designing ARFs stumble upon something aerodynamically interesting to me. Something I would not have taken the time to build (I'm sooooo slow at building), but wanted to fly. ARFs fill that bill perfectly. They also let me take my time while building something that I really care about. Not to mention the fact that it is darned difficult to scratch build and cover a model these days at an ARF price.

I'm with you on your trade only listings. That would be fun.

Ed Cregger

ram3500-RCU

My Feedback: (221)

I'm right there with ya on all this. Let's try and promote this trade idea.

Crashtruk

I am very busy (I have 2 young kids). I love to fly. ARF's are so cheap to buy and have come a long way in the last couple of years as far as range and quality are concerned.

Stickbuilder

Dick,

How about, when you are doing a review, let's see a few photo's of things such as your engine installation, or the actual problem with the firewall that had no glue on the sides, but had the triangular stock glued in. In other words, something besides the complete and ready to fly version.

Bill, AMa 4720
WACO Brotherhood #1

GerKonig

That is a very good question, I do kits and arfs. But I started in the hobby late 1960's when the ARFs were not available. Kits have a problem if you have a family, kids, a life, a business, volunteer time in professional associations, have other hobbies, love to travel, go to airshows, and on top of all, one ages and kind of winds down at the end of the day, if you know what I mean... I keep building 1/4 scale models (or 1/3 scale) but I also buy 1/5 scale or 1/4 scale ARFs. The reason? Save time to do other things, I also like to fly. I also like general aviation, but let me tell you, if the day ever comes that I actually want to own an airplane, it would never cross my mind to build the plane (and I love homebuilts, but not enough to build one).

Did you notice that most of the best scale builders work in teams, one guy builds, and another guy is the pilot? I wonder if it is because the building party is not such a good pilot (maybe because he does not get enough stick time), or because he does not care about flying, just building. Also, most of the acro and or 3D pilots also fly almost exclusively ARFs of all kinds and sizes... That would indicate (to me) that they love to fly and not build. I think this hobby las a lot to offer to all kind of folks, that's the reason why I still love RC after all this years.

There are also a lot of experimental aircraft builders that build one plane, just to fly a couple of hours and sell it off to fund another project... Happens all the time:-)

Gerry

Mode One

Sounds very familiar, I raised two boys, have multiple things I do with my free time, work as hard at my job as anyone here, mow grass, (used to mow the flying field on my property, also) fix stuff around the house when it's needed, wash dishes, watch TV if it's something I like, etc. etc... and love building models!

Someone said earlier, you make time for the things you enjoy doing. If this doesn't include building model airplanes from kits or scratch; but, does include building ARFS, that's fine! Just leave the "I don't have time" statement on the key board, as it just don't wash!

Alex7403

I’m building kits now.

Every time my ARF was taking off I had a sigh inside “OH it’s a miracle it took off thank god…�

When I’m building kits I’m an aviator, ARFs are toys. (IMO)

Is the fire wall also connected to the fuse with hot glue???
You don’t know that when its an arf, and if you do know its that cheap glue, what are you gonna do about it?

If who built my plane was short on glue and the plane didn’t held up me torturing it what am I gonna do? Buy a new ARF?
So they can build it like cr@p to make me buy another one???

Don’t get me wrong, I have one ARF that I fly rarely when the kits are in repair.

Alex

ram3500-RCU

My Feedback: (221)

I had the original H9 33% Sukhoi. With 80ccs, believe me when I say, IT WAS NO TOY. I can't believe how nice the new version is. It even comes with the giant scale hardware package and a really good looking pilot bust. These are fine aircraft. I had mine for three seasons, and then sold her and now someone else is enjoying it. Your giving ARFs, in general, a bad wrap, unfairly.

Mr67Stang

I enjoy both. I ASSEMBLE ARFS and BUILD kits. While I love to fly both there is no greater satisfaction than putting that kit built plane in the air. Personalized to the point that no-one will ever be able to duplicate it. And you will never have a guy at the feild say, "Hey nice plane." and then show up next week with the same plane. In this hobby we say it a lot. "You get what you pay for." Anyone who has built a kit of a plane that is also offered in ARF form knows that he can buy the ARF for less than it will cost to complete that kit. But as stated... You get what you pay for.

tailskid

My Feedback: (34)

krproton, some very good answers in your reply....thanks for taking the time to do so.

On another point...kit vs ARF's...we were discussing this just last week when it was brought up how we 'used' to preflight a new aircraft - things like wing incidence, wing warps, engine offset (and the list went on) were looked at and evaluated long before we pronounced the plane 'flyable'....heck I remember a guy brought a Kadet or Falcon 56 to the field and the gaps between the control surfaces were wide enough to drop a pen through - and one wing was higher than the other - and that was just the obivious things ....

I haven't had to really 'pre-flight' like I used to....but the surprising thing is that all of them flew - and flew so well we never left one up there

Stickbuilder

Did I notice that most of the best scale builders work in teams? I did happen to notice that SOME of the best scale builders work in teams. It would be kind of hard for me not to notice, since I happen to be the Scale Outline Judge for Team Scale at Top Gun. This is not to say that there are not scale models entered in Expert, or even Pro-AM that are not just as good. You might consider coming down to Lakeland at the end of April and the first few days in May, so that you can see for yourself. Don't bother bringing an ARF though. They are excluded from the competition, and you do have to sign a builder of the model declaration.

Bill, AMA 4720
WACO Brotherhood #1

GerKonig

Thank you for the invite, I live outside Philadelphia, but this year I actually WILL (yeah!) be out in Lakeland for the Sun n' Fun EAA meet (Christmas present from my wife). I will be there from the 9th to the 12th of April:-) Will be visiting Kermit's museum as well, since I will finish a DVIII in the colors of the one at the museum. Also, they have a Morane Sauliner A1, and that is the second plane I will finish this winter:-) I am still undecided if the Morane will have the Polish colors (easy to do, all green), Kermit's colors (France) (quite nice looking colors) or the silver (done many times) version of Rhinebeck...

Florida is far for me, but I never miss Warbirds over Delaware in summer nor the Rhinebeck modelers weekend in fall:-) I find some of the models inspiring... You learn a lot looking at other people's planes, specially if they are master builders:-)

Gerry
AMA 20767

skiman762

Here's a twist on this thread
It wasen't all that long ago well ok it was, but before the ARF in a box came along there was a fairly large group of ''pro'' builders that wouild build planes for a fee so the end user got what was in fact and ARF or RTF.
so I think building and flying have been seperate hobbies for sometime now.

skiman762

dumb thumbed this one

Stickbuilder

I used to build for a fee as well. I stopped when I attended a contest, and there was a model that I had built, being entered into competition. The guy that I had built the model for was standing there bragging about how he had done this and that. I introduced myself to him, and never mentioned that I had built the model. A few minutes later, he had left. I made myself a promise right there, to never do anything like that ever again. I will give a model away to a child or to some place of business for display, but I will never sell another model to a model flyer.

Bill, AMA 4720
WACO Brotherhood #1

A1

My Feedback: (2)

While I'm out making $30.00/hr. There's some 10 year old in China building my plane for me for .30/hr.
I've noted, over the past few years I've been flying, that most people who build don't fly as often as ARFers.
They seem more into the static display.

pettit

My Feedback: (23)

Stickbuilder: I DO take pictures of engine installation and other construction steps, but the Editor has reasons not to publish them.

As far as the "no glue on the firewall", I check all ARFs for sufficient glue, both visually and mechanically.

I seem to remember that theFuntana X had a loose firewall, but it was initially strong enough to pass my "push pull" test when I installed the engine.

Mode One

Try .30 cents a day! Your equation between builders and flyers maybe true for your club; but, would be a dangerous assumption globally!

You guys who build ARFs only, really need to stop being condiscending to the guys who like to build! Generally, we have been in this hobby far longer then you! We understand and enjoy the act of building something with our hands and take great pride in our workmanship and abilities! We come from a time when if you wanted to fly, you had to build! So, putting our new built pride and joy on the line was a mundain daily occurance. Obviously I'm offended by A1 statement and take exception.

Stickbuilder

Dick,

I just wondered why we only see the finished product. Guess Gordon only wants to see the Baby, and not hear the labor pains.

Bill, AMA 4720
WACO Brotherhood #1

pettit

My Feedback: (23)

He makes the publication decisions. You can take it up with him.

GerKonig

I hear you, and it gets worst when you make more money, believe me:-) I guess every club is different, but at our club, most planes flown are ARFs. Some of us build some of our planes and ALSO fly ARFs, and a very few (all retired I must add) fly ONLY planes built by them. But, I must say, only a handful of our members (I include myself) would have built and covered a plane with the quality the Chinese did w/my Great Planes RV-4 1/4 scale ARF. Or the Custiss Hawk (also GP) for that matter.

There seem to be a link between age and kitbuilding. Those of us who build are getting up there in years. It is rare to see young kit builders (Disclaimer: this is my personal observation, and applies only to the clubs I visit). Also, many of this builders are very condescending with the ARF pilots, and are always talking about the superior quality of their (own built) planes. Ha! In the old days there were good builders and just builders... I have seen wings fail, 2 planes have their wings fly off (rendering the fuselage a lawn dart), firewalls rip off in flight, landing gears fail, and I even saw a plane (in her maiden flight) loose the elevator (it was pined, but the pins missed all hinges), that one did not end well, heck I saw a plane loose the top covering of a wing (it landed in one piece)...

Kit built is not synonymous of good quality, the same way that ARF is not synonymous of bad quality:-) That's my story and I am sticking to it...

Gerry
Electric Telemaster ARF, 1/4 scale electric RV4 ARF, Curtiss Hawk ARF (Brillelli 26), Sig Clipped Wing 1/4 scale Cub (G-26), Balsa USA 1/4 Scale Cub (Quadra 42) - Finishing this winter BUSA 1/4 scale Fokker DV-III and 1/3 scale Morane Saulnier A1