Kcripto

My Feedback: (1)

Yes, the same gap as mine...perhaps some insulation tape works, I think if muffler not touch the cowl no problem, (maybe)

Rebellion

My Feedback: (2)

Thanks! I was thinking tape or perhaps some BVM heat shield but like you said, maybe it's OK as is. What the heck, a replacement cowl is only $17.00.

CRG

My Feedback: (3)

Flew the ST powered Sundowner today. Around 12 pounds ready to fly, it handles great and is generally a nicer airplane than at 13.5lbs. Definately slows down more on landing. And 10mph faster than the EVO35 version on the same prop (16x12). Was a little rich, and first flights on the motor, will give the 16x14 a try after a little more running.

Craig.

bzyguy01

Vinceb....Yeah...I know that stuff about the fuels and this is why I liked running heli fuel, Whenever I changed my fuels I started from ground zero and tuned completely for each fuel. I would turn it out 1/2 turn and run it up to tune every time. What I meant by no gain with the Heli fuel was that the plane felt/looked and flew the same MPH within 1-2 mph but that could have just been the wind conditions itself. But properly tuned the OS was getting at least 15-20 Degrees hotter on the 30%. The 160 could be pre detonating with the higher Nitro content as its my understanding that the squish tolerence of the head to piston top should be tighter to actually benefit from the higher nitro? Please correct me if this is incorrect? And if it is pre detonating....I will loose power. But I'm not sure if it is the case here?
But with testing first hand, the best bang for the buck was the 25% Cool Power Std fuel. ( with my OS160 and my props in my SD)

vince.b

My Feedback: (1)

It's the high compression that makes it pre detonate on the higher nitro. Don't forget nitro in an oxygenator. The only thing it does is add more o2 to the fuel.
Moki's and other ero/uk engines are a higher compression desiegned to run on low or no nitro because of the price of nitro over there. Remembering all the hassles i had with os heli engines 1st,2nd heli generation engines on 30% were always because of the slightly higher compression. I just had to play the shim game.
I cant remember but were you also the guy that was running exhust restricters?
Mine never showed up friday or saturday. It has to be at the bus depo today though

PHall

High compression is what causes detonation but adding shims is bad. You want to keep the piston as close to the squish band as possible. If compression is too high then you need to increase the bowl volume. The small area between the piston and squish band provides a much of the cooling foe the engine. Nitro cools engines. Tight head clearance cools engines. Correct compression fires the nitro. All this adds up to more power. Higher the nitro, the higher the compression. If you are not running a tuned pipe then you are spinning your wheels for the most part.

vince.b

My Feedback: (1)

well it came today. The DA would work very nicely in there with a pitts muffler. I was hoping there was alittle more room in the fuse for a better muffle system.
Looks like nitro.
is anyone here running the Saito 220 in this airframe or have this engine? Just wondering about there performance.
Thanks

PHall

Just a little Evolution 26 prop info.


[link=http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/m_6435234/tm.htm]Prop info[/link]

freakingfast

My Feedback: (3)

With the Moki/Mark 2.10 I figured that the 22 oz. fuel tank would be emptied in 8.8 minutes at full power using FAI fuel.
Has anyone cramed a bigger or added a tank to get more flight time?

Kcripto

My Feedback: (1)

almost done...

vince.b

My Feedback: (1)

hey I noticed that your landing gear strut is black. Is that the stock one? did you paint it? cause the one in my kit is white.

kid chuckles

Fella's flew mine Sunday first time I flew it being at the controls. Setup with the 180 on radar it was only about 88mph. with a 16X8 Master Screw prop. It is not real fast and that is good for me as I am one of them that should not be flying this type plane as of yet. Had about a 15mph. gusty crosswind and that did not help. Instructor asked me if I wanted help but being a showoff I refused and landed it myself. Almost perfect lol. Hit just a tad hard and flipped over on the nose. It broke the rudder just a little. Took about 30min. to fix. Going to try again today at our club meeting. It is a different deal than anything I have flown before. But being fairly new and stupid as @#@$ I will give her another go. So to us guys that are not really ready give us a brake it's our &&&& and you seem to be alright with the guy's trying a DA in there's like some said then it's YOUR plane do with it what you will. Man the 180 sounds so cool even if it is not screaming fast. Any suggestions on prop size to help with speed as if i need it. Thanks and I KNOW I AM NOT REALLY READY but going to do it anyway lol. OH by the way everyone at our little field was awestruck by the apperance. Looks the same now just missing the #'s on the tail fin. Tried changing the color to match the blue pin stripe but just did not look good so went back to the yellow. By the way it is Cub Yellow if you need to get some monokote for it in the future Hopefully not but that is what matched perfect.

CRG

My Feedback: (3)

In post 449 Kcripto says.... also I use a carbon landing of Funtana 90 short version by graph tech, is a little more tall and give more prop clerance

vince.b

My Feedback: (1)

the guys at my field used 5% in the moki's... just to give them that bit better starts, idle and a more power with great success.
well I ended up ordering the saito 220 black night after reading the review from Horizon. I found a video on you tube of one in a extra and man after hearing the sound it makes I ordered it right away. It sounds like the best engine that saito has made to date from the review. Sounds like Horizon was very impressed by the preformace on 15% fuel. 30% power master and cool power is the only stuff i have so it should be a sweet combo.
also in the review they said to leave the needle a 1/4 to 1/2 turn open as this engine likes to unload in the air. Just my 2 cents but all engines unload in the air. some power plants can unload 1000 to 1500 or more in the air. More rpm means more fuel its always been that way .

There was a post hear about a 180's cam gear letting go. When I read the post the the first thought was the engine more then likely was set for to much power on the ground and when the engine started to unwind at speed it more then likely red lined. Of course i could be wrong about this unless more guys are having problems with the gera in the 180.

In the review they said after the engine settles down the idle is pretty lumpy and the engine just beggs to be run up.
This will be my first 4 stroke ever. I have been in the hobby since i was 10. 26 years of 2 strokes.
even the fuel comsumption was charted at 1.75 to 2.25 oz/min. Hard to beleave that a 91 Heli engine burns the about fuel about the same rate and makes close to the same power 3.3+hp@16000 and the 220 is 3.5hp@9000. But I am guessing the saito torque is huge compared to the Heli engine.
But in the Hp to wait ratio to 2 stroke has and probably always with be the winner.
I seem to remember that 91 was 18.6 oz and the 220 is 42 oz before muffler.
One thing that I am hoping for is that the 220 is just big enough for the valve covers to poke through the cowl. If they do it should look very cool.

wildswan

Hi, just stuck my sundowner together. Does anyone know how it will perform with an SC 180 FS and 18x10 prop?

Not sure of weight of model yet, I have six 645MG servos and 1200mah 6v pack and using the hollow stab tubes.

I am restricted to 80db at our field hence the higher pitched prop than the recommended 18x8.

Regards,

Jason

vince.b

My Feedback: (1)

prop tip speed is usually the real noise maker. something like 320' per second is where the tip goes super sonic. an 18" prop will go super sonic sooner then a 17" at a given rpm. we spent close to 9000 at our field for a noise studies. There was alot learned but most of it we already new the club needed the paper.
the biggest thing we do is to fly the aircraft in a manner to minimize the sound foot print (ie throttle management). we have planes at our field that can crack the meter well over 105 but they are flown in a less earitating fashen then some of the e planes .
Just my 2 cents

freakingfast

My Feedback: (3)

Ok....how did you guys get the engine cowling over the stacks on a Moki/Bisson Sundowner muffler? Did you cut the stacks so that they just stick through (3/16" ) and you stretch the cowling over it?


Like this?

reincarnate

You may want to remove more of the cowl to assist with exit air to cool the engine, but that's another thread/discussion/argument. If you're not getting high engine temps after a hard flight, then go for looks, like your picture. If your getting hot, then go for functionality and remove more fiberglass.

sbritton

I'm all set with mine, but going electric with a 12S on an AXI 5435/14 (4000watts) and should be a fast son of a gun when done.

I'm really comfortable with all sorts of planes, some just as fast (but smaller). Most planes I have had so far are the "Edge" .60 sized or fast wings. My only concern is landing and how much runway I will need. All the videos I saw says she comes in fast.

So my questions are:

1. How much runway is really needed to get this thing down on the ground safely. (I think our field is about 450ft long of dirt/DG with a small 3 foot wire fence at the ends)
2. Has anyone used flaperons yet...if so, what is the recommended setup?
3. I haven't used flaperons before, but logic says that should go "down" to generate more lift at slower speeds...but I have seen posts that say the opposite. What is the real deal?

CRG

My Feedback: (3)

From what I've seen and heard flaperons or spoilerons on the Sundowner are not worth using. No benefit and potentially some harm.

With the EVO 35 the Sundowner can be landed comfortably at fields such as Sepulveda Basin, providing you have a reliable idle. Any other motor that gives a lower flying weight and it only gets easier.

reincarnate

Flaperons deflect down, and spoilerons deflect up. Don't know which would be best as it doesn't seem many are using it. If you've got 450 foot of open runway, you'll be fine. Shoot a bunch of approaches to watch how it settles in though. Start fast and then gradually slow them down. Of course figure out where it'll stall on your throttle up about three mistakes high first!

F1 Rocket

Our Sundowner is E powered and flys great (build thread here: http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=690932). I'd keep an eye on the weight as every oz I have taken off of ours has resulted in a better flying airplane. For an E conversion the trick is to get the weight off the tail. I used a smaller tail wheel assembly and lighter push rods. The servos in ours are HS-5475's but if I did it again I'd use HS-5245's for the 3 in the tail. This will save almost 1.5 oz. I hear that Graph Tech has a carbon gear now too.


Danny

kochj

So has anyone set this up and raced it at one of the GIant Air race events????
I would love to put my ZDZ 40F3a in it.... (obviously it would not qualify for racing)
It weights the same as a 26gt evo!!!
I would think that is would be the best combo.... Light, and wicked powerfull....
Too bad this was not the way the plane was set up for...??

Anyone race?????

Justin

reincarnate

Does your wife know you have that filthy motor on her good bed linens?[X(]

kochj

New Motor! LOL
Don't you sleep with your new engines?
I thought everyone did that?