tsawyer148

My Feedback: (8)

If you get time you can look through these threads. Somewhere in one of them i believe is some discussion about using a velocity stack. Some of the guys have done alot of testing with different ideas.

http://www.usrainfo.org/forums/topic...um=1&topic=581

http://www.usrainfo.org/forums/topic...ic=615&start=0

Mr. Mugen

I see you run it with the wings off. I take it you never saw one roll over doing that eh? I saw it happen only once but vowed to never run my engine without putting my wings on since. Just a thought..... Nice job on the smoker set-up.

Kevin

learjet45xp

OK. So I have read through most of this thread and have a new sundowner headed my way. This will be my first "big plane" . Lately I have been flying my kee-cat w/ a .91FX and jett pipe. She lands fast, has a delta wing, and does a good 100mph. So I am thinking this is a good next step for me. I want the plane to handle well and have good speed...doesn't have to be crazy fast, but 120mph would be good. After reading on here, I think that the engine of choice should be between the moki 1.80 and the moki 2.10. These engines are much cheaper than the gassers, run higher RPM, and are fairly lightweight for their power. So...my question is.

Should I go with the moki 1.80 ...or the moki 2.10? Will the 1.80 even get me to 120mph? Any feedback would be awesome!

Also..I plan on going with the JR 821 servos. I see people advertise them as DS821 and call them spektrum 821's . I am not running a 2.4 system. I run a syn. 7202 and an r790 reciever. These servo's will work just the same, right? They aren't specifically for spektrum systems are they?

Thanks!

vince.b

My Feedback: (1)

when in doubt go with morepower.
When I first saw the kit and and the engine it said was a 1.8 4stroke i never gave it a second thought when i ordered the saito 220.
I have a few different props to play with but even with the 18x12 at lower rpm's it still moves along.
I went with the 4 stroke mainly because its my first one and it sound so sweet compared to the 2 strokes that i am so use to.
I now that for all out Hp to wieght ratio 2 strokes will always win. but as soon as i heard a 220 run I fell in love with it and had to have one. I am running 30% in it and the fuel burn is very close to high end 90 heli engine. just a bit over 2 oz a minite.
If i was going for all out speed I just would have put my DA50 in it on a pipe.
I have read of a few guys using the 2.1 moki and it sounds like its also a good match.
the moki 2.1 was my secound choice but all i have is 30% and the moki's max nitro you can run is 5%.
mine came out at 12 pounds 2 oz with the saito 220 with a carbon tube and LG gear. the carbon parts saves about 6 oz.
the kit is nice because it comes with alloy or steel elivator spars so u can mix and match to get a good CG.
My battery is in the rear and I was able to use the alloy tubes in the rear. I guess the steel set is for the gasser.

kid chuckles

Just wondering if anyone running the 180 had tried using the heavier elev. rod. I have my battery about a foot behind wing tube and thought with using the heavier tube i might be able to move them up inside the canopy area. Mine is balanced good but hard to get the batteries secured real good.

CrashPro

My Feedback: (1)

Short video of my Sundowner with OS 1.60 and smoke system. I will have better video next week,...hopefully will have my 'How Fast' speed recorder installed in plane then also. http://www.rcuvideos.com/item/H7LLV88QLSGMVQ4T

vince.b

My Feedback: (1)

cool smoke
why woyld you make your plane heaver when you can make it liter?
mount the battery in the tail

CrashPro

My Feedback: (1)

Actually,..the battery IS mounted in the tail..... I don't care much about it being light as can be and as fast as can be.
The plane was given to me, got a good deal on the engine,.....and I had a smoke system lying around,....

vince.b

My Feedback: (1)

I just put mine on the scale
saito 220 5371g=11.84lb or 11lb 13.45oz
it has an 18x10 xero wood prop before it had a apc the prop now is half the weight.

learjet45xp

Well. I decided to go with the Moki/Mark 2.1 . They are selling new on Ebay now for $185. Couldn't pass that up. You guys that are running the moki...what have you found the best prop to be? And what sort of RPM are you getting with them? Thanks

Also...I have been searching for days for a radial mount for the moki 2.1 with no luck!!! Anyone know where to buy one?

cavandish

were on e bay ? I cannot find-worth having one 'on the shelf' for that price

For anyone thats interested, I have a bgx1 in my downer, she pulls about 7700 static with the factory muff turning a 16x14 on zero nitro. i have just fitted an os tuned pipe & rpms have just jumped to 8750 static with the 16x14, I can put up with the ugly torpedo hanging underneath for this type of gain !OS recomend to aim for 8k static, so will try 16x15 soon, this seems to be the way to go ????(any advice would be apreciated) this combo will be flown with garmin gps on board, so will be able to report best speed achieved soon, so watch this space!

cavandish

save your money, the h9 mount works really well, with my bgx(it is one of the better quality bits of hardware in the kit) you just have to reccess one of the angle bracket support screws into the firewall. as the h9 mount needs to sit on top of one of them, also no issues with spinner clearance against the cowl, as h9 mount is slotted, allowing the engine to adjust back & forth.

kid chuckles

Vince just trying to get it easier to balance. And more flyer friendly when messing with the batteries. I have two and have tried moving them to the tail. But that makes it tail heavy and that is not good. I was thinking i could use the heavier rod and move the batteries forward. I like fast but want easier flying over fast at all times lol. I have the 180 which is not real fast to begin with. It has been radared at 88-93mph depending on wind. I also weigh em down with stickers lol. I like stickers and use all I can to bling a plane. I cut the RAT out of my crashed ERATIX and put it in front of the cowl alone with the other stickers I uesd. I took the wing decals off the Eratix and applied them to the wing and tail. I used my crashed Super Chipmunk decals also now I have the little Chipmunk and the Pennzoil stickers on it. I even have some Traxx''s sitckers on it. Pretty cool looking though. So anyone that does not like the stickers they get with any plane can send them to me and I WILL use them on something. I think if i change my prop and go to an 18X4 it might pick up a few mph. But it sure flys sweet the way it is and that is all i do with it is fly pattern type flights. No kind of racing. I got that out of my system with cars for 14yr.s straight, every Sat, and Sun. Pix of my RAT lol, one of my cars i raced and the car i bought when i sold race cars. Enjoy.

learjet45xp

just go in Ebay and type in "moki" in the search engine. You will then have to look under the catagory of "toys and hobbies" ...about 8-15 ads will come up and you will see one that is for the moki/mark 2.10 .

Heres the link:

http://cgi.ebay.com/Moki-Mark-210_W0...QQcmdZViewItem

Just cut and paste that link. They sell them 4 at a time. You don't have to buy all 4, but have the option of more if you want at the same final price each. I got mine for the $185 last time and the time before that for $188. So its right on the money. Awesome deal!

scbr

Hi there anybody!
I've just finalized the last mounting steps on my Sundowner. I fitted a DL-50 (incl KS canister type muffler) on it by shortening the engine mounting section by about 1 inch. Now it fits perfectly under the fuselage.
I'm using 2x Hitec 77B for the elevator 1x 9202 for the rudder and 2x RS700 (prior to the 9102 Futaba) which I still had in my spare servo box. Maybe I exchange them by 2 new 9202.
RX batteries 4x GP3700 (mounted together with the RX just after the Wing tube), ignition 4x Kokam 1400 (mounted in the Tail with the steel sticks).
I'll send a video link asap. The weight is 14 lbs (dry) feels quite heavy but my jet and other acrobatic planes do also.
The prop for the running in procedure will be a Menz S 18x12 or I'll go for a 19x14. The 18x12 revolved at 8600 1/min with this new engine which is still on the rich side adjusted.
So lets give it a flight.

I'll report about this maiden flight within this week provided it's still alive :-)


By

Bruno / Switzerland

vince.b

My Feedback: (1)

today I mounted my gps in the plane.
I have a saito 220 with a 18x10 xroa prop plane came in just under 12lb dry.
the high end was pulled back to 7500rpm from 8200rpm.
the gps read 199kph or 124mph. there is still alittle left in the needle but the engine really needs somekind of a pump and regulator.
the 18x10 in no way is a speed prop but it sure pulls hard on the vertical.
every time i fly the sundowner the more i love it.
I have an extra fuse I am tempted to mount the DA50 to it as the weight of the 50 is only 2.9lbs and the stand offs i happen to have would fit nicely. the pipe i have on my 50 turned a 22x12 @7300.
the 220 sounds so sweet though and really its fast enough and very quite the way its running now.
I more then likely will get the big bore carb and a pump.

cavandish

I ran the downer with GPS mounted yesterday, it kept switching off (I recon due to vibration) dispite this, best speed recorded was 140MPH that was with the piped bgx turning a 16x15 with NO NITRO, static rpm on rich setting was 8300, vertical is just about un limited.

A note for the un-wary

I have tried the stall several times on this plane, all it has done is to 'nod'- the thing is, I only tried it whilst flying straight , yesterday I was turning a long way out for finals when she 'snaped' I was fairly low and vis was poor, so this was not a pleasant experiance! I was lucky not to loose a fantastic plane BEWARE ITS A RACER, KEEP YOUR SPEED UP !


PREVIOUS POST WITH PICS OF DA 50 INSTALLED LOOK AWESOME, BE NICE IF YOU COULD MANUFACTURE A HEADER THAT WOULD ENABLE THE CANNISTER TO SIT IN THE CUT OUT ON THE UNDERSIDE ?

vince.b

My Feedback: (1)

sweet
I have a 16x16 that i can try on the 220. great numbers with 0 nitro.
I havent tried the 16x16 apc because a few guys at the field said that it might not be enough load for the 220 to keep it well under 10k in the air. red line for the 220 is 10k
I just added up my fuel 80+ gallons still left over from heli's.

scbr

It's a DL50 not the DA50!

scbr

Today I had my first flight with this plane (DL50 powered). It was subjectively not that fast as I hoped it would be but the reason is might because of my trimming which I had to do because of bad kit quality (-> remarks )
I had a wooden prop MenzS 19x14 installed which turned at 8200 1/min on the ground.
Something to the quality of the Hangar 9 ARF kit. I figured out that the fixing tubes in the wings were not equally mounted and fixed by the factory this caused that I had to trim the Ails on one side 6mm up and visa versa.
Luckily I could land the plane safely. As several times mentioned before the landing gear is not solid at all for such a setup so I recommend to use a CFK instead.

So my next actions:
- Installation of a CFK gear
- Installation of a tuned pipe
- Correction of one Wing fixation by moving it 2mm down to meet the same fixing position as on the other Wing.

And I confirm, this plane has to be fast to keep it under control. If the engine goes off try to keep the speed as fast as possible otherwise the plane does not react any more on the rudder movements.

Kind Rgds

Bruno

cavandish

what is cfk gear ?

scbr

Sorry there is a German abbreviation letter (K) in it.
CF means : Carbon fiber and the "K" stands for reinforced plastics

cavandish

I am just rebuilding a 1/4 zlin 50, funny enough I am replacing the st 3000 with a DL 50. I am going to go with carbon gear also, best I have seen is at chief aircraft, they do them for specific arf's but do give dimmensions for many of them, so you can mix & match, the one that suits me is for a h9 funtana at $45 us what brand are you thinking of using ?

regarding this plane & speed, untill I got the correct pipe & prop she was dissapointing (even the first flight was a let down after the build up of this thread) now it is 'seat of your pants stuff', try a gps, it would be very interesting to see were you are at. I am no expert but if you want speed go for less diameter & more pitch. yours would be one of the heavy ones, so she aint no glider ! I am probly a lb lighter than you but still dread deadsticks unless I am on a open field without fences, It takes a lot of skill to come in deadstick with the correct speed, you think you have it, and as you drop into finals she starts going real quick again, making it so easy to run out of space on a small field, or you just do not have enough airspeed & she drops like a stone, if your really unlucky, she will drop a wing.

hbutler

I agree with canvandish and scbr on deadsticks and the sundowner.

I spent the better part of 2 months researching, waiting for parts, and building this plane. Followed most of the recommendations in this tread only to have a dead stick on my first flight. I was still in the process of trimming the plane. Not sure why the engine quit at this point, but I suspect that the spark plug wire came off during flight. It wasn't attached in the wreckage and there was no damage done to the ceramic on the plug. So I know that the ground did not come into contact with the spark plug wire. Additionally, the little ring that pulls the plug fitting tight was in a position where the fitting was a bit loose. This was my first gasser, and this is something I will definitly check from here on out. The engine died suddenly so I don't think it was a mixture problem.

I did pretty well with keeping the nose down to keep the speed up, but things went bad when I tried to turn to final. I was very close to the runway going down wind and committed the sin of trying to make the tight turn to final and it snapped. Very hard lesson to learn. If this was a 40 size planes, I could have done this deadstick landing in my sleep. I shouldn't have tried to make the runway.


-flight performance
I would like to comment on the speed and handling of the plane, but I can't as I only had about 4 passes before it went down. I did go with the 35 gt. It was a new engine that had run flawlessly for about 15 minutes on the ground prior to refueling and the first flight. I did all that I could to reduce the weight with the exceptions of batteries(I don't do lipos). I did CF gear and wing tube. I used the light tail wing tube and put my A123 RX and ignition batteries in the rear hatch. I have 2.4 AR9100 and did a range check with the spektrum data logger and had not interference issues. CG was at about 2 7/8 inches. So I believe I was cautious with this plane. One could argue that I should have run the engine longer.

-how much experience is needed for this plane.
Anyhow, if you are new to giants as I am you really need to get a good feel for this plane to deal with deadsticks. Always keep in mind that it needs speed to fly. That is on both wings! If you slow one down and accelerate the other as I did during the tight turn, it will snap on you. I would highly recommend having someone experienced do your maiden. I was offered that and I turned it down because I would rather the plane go down due to one of my mistakes versus someone elses. Obviously I'm rethinking that now.

There have been lots of comments cautioning beginners about this plane. I'd like to give you my prospective at this point as I found difficult reading the thread trying to gauge the experience of the people commenting previously. I consider myself to be an intermediate sport plane flyer. I soloed in November of 07. Experienced flyers always tell me that I fly well and much better than most that have been flying for the time that I have been. I have owned a Nexstar, Hanger 9 pulse and a world models t34. Though the flight time I had this plane was limited, I felt that I could handle the plane. It took off much quicker than what I have seen on videos. I took off from behind the plane and it stayed right on the center line of the runway. One of my passes was at a lower speed that I probably could have landed at and the plane didn't feel like it was about to stall. (We do have a 500 foot runway). I feel like I could have slowed the plane down even further with no problem. I never weighed the plane and the handling that I'm describing could very well be due to the things I did to lower weight of the plane.

One thing that I didn't have in the front of my mind with this plane is how to handle deadsticks. Part of the benefits of moving to gas was to minimize deadsticks. This plane is not a 40 size plane and you have to manage your energy correctly and you must keep both wings flying. Not all deadsticks are easy to deal with, but if you are not absolutely confident in how to handle deadsticks on a small plane, I would not get into this plane until you are confident. It is different and I'm assuming that if you are at that point in your flying you probably don't have a good idea on how to manage your energy on landing. I would caution anyone who is on the fence about this plane to consider deadsticks. If I had to put a list together of things one should be able to do prior to getting this plane, deadsticks would be high as it requires one to manage energy and how it relates to altitude properly.

This was my first crash and it hurt. I put a lot of effort into this plane and the plane is a real looker. I haven't gone through all of the wreckage yet, but it would really be bad if the deadstick was caused by a spark plug wire clip.

There's my 2 cents....

scbr

That previous story is a pity but there are a lot of people around which unfortunately experienced similar accidents on their first flights including me.
By the way my second flight also ended with a engine cut off (run out of fuel) but I was lucky and it landed quiet flat on a law field even I lost control because of slow speed caused by my trimmed Ails.
I made the second flight because I thought it was one of the elevator which was a little bit different adjusted as the other and I corrected this deviation as good as possible.

One question to you: Was the EWD (I do not know the english expression) correct on your plane or had you also to trim your Ails (-> picture)?



Regarding the CF gear I'm going to use one from this company www.elster-modellbau.de good an affordable!


So everything has been ordered now for my plane except the tuned pipe but this will soon follow after successful third flight.

Rgds

Bruno