Antennas look good. I left my CG point 1/2 an inch behind the recommended CG. Not much nose weight added after installing my big 220. At that point Plane sits level on CG machine. Moving CG 1/4 inch forward, plane barely moves at all so Im thinking it should be just fine. Do you have breaks on yours ?

no brakes, just tightened the wheels by putting washers, it slows the aircraft nicely.

hi cristin
thanks for the pictures,and your video of you plane,

jimmy

UPDATE:...Finally ran engine today. Nice, very Nice, set in low idle and high end..starts on first flip.......after running a tank and a half through it, I decided to taxi the plane around our 800 foot runway just to get a feel for ground handling....It moved along nicely even though the retracts had play in them.....brought the plane back into the taxi way and decided I was going to fuel it up again and FLY IT !!.....Fired motor up again, checked Elevators, Up/Dwn ok, Throttle OK...had already cycled gear up and down checked OK, Ailerons, left ok right OK,,,,,,,,,,,time to GO !!! ...started out on a good roll and plane tracked nicely....dropped 10 Deg Flaps, Pulled gently back on stick and off it went, very very scale climb....About 50 feet up and climbing I switched Gear up and thats when it happened !!!!!! Plane Rolled Over Right, Compensated with Left Aileron but nothing happened, Plane kept Rolling Right, Once upside down it nosed down, What to do but Cut throttle and watched it Hit the Ground. OUCH !!! Total Loss....Not enough to take a picture of. Plane was totalled, wings totalled, broke rear intake manifold on engine also. We picked up pieces and started THE INVESTIGATION. After checking batteries, glow support, control surface positions, Rx etc etc etc etc...we found NOTHING that would have contributed to the Roll and Death of the plane. Heck even the air system still had air in it. Batteries had full charge and all surfaced moved in the right direction when checked individually. We had absolutely NO CLUE as to what happened. Back to the drawing board. Have fun guys with yours. Mine will be creamated this evening. Slo signing off. [sm=cry_smile.gif]

Wow sorry for the loss, sound strange that all surfaces were going the right way ! Made a range check ?
Lost a student's trainer this week end, he forgot to put back the screw on the aileron servo...
Eric

YUP ranged checked. Using DX-7 Spectrum all around. Hi torque servos on airlerons and elevators. Completely dissasembled the plane yesterday and laid out all the electronics as installed. Went over everything over and over and they all moved in the right direction. I replayed what I did from throttling up (throttle servo totalled) to picturing it going down the runway, lifting and rolling, and me inputing commands. After retracts went up, its a total mind boggle. All control surfaces moved correctly to compensate for roll but plane kept rolling. My conclusion was that it was a Torque Induced Roll. TOO much Power. Saito 220 swinging a 16 x 8 3-blade. []

That sucks, sorry man.

Did the throttle respond when you cut it or did everything quit but the throttle?

Wouldn't the torque rotate the plane to the left?

What kind of retracts? I fly behind a spektrum system and have found that with certain electrical loads it is possible for the rx to have a low voltage issue and go into fail safe or rebind mode. Even with the new quick bind mode it is often too late. I run the voltage stabilizer capacitor, this make sure that the rx receives the proper voltage for a transient voltage loss try P/N - SPM1600.

Yup Throttle responded ok, once inverted and nosing in i cut power....Torque did not affect it running down runway, but once in the air up 50 feet.....beautiful torque roll..heheheh, I can laugh now since I cried al last night hehehehe.......

retracts are air up air down. single servo operated so NO i would say retracts are not a factor. I used Dual MPI on/off switched with built in power meters, with Dual 6v 2200 mAh packs in parallel. So RX was ok. Fail safe was ruled out. Even after wreckage was gone over, voltage was still OK using two diff meters.

My mind is dead on Torque Effect once it left the cushion of Ground Effect.

Wouldn't the plane roll to the left if it were torque? Like in a torque roll.

NO, its induced right due to the Thrust. Picture plane running down runway and you input Right Rudder to break Left induced effect by prop wash hitting left side of Rudder. Now Picture it in the Air. Right wing will drop, Left will go up inducing Roll. Left induced Torque Rolls are purposely induced by the pilot inputing aileron while plane is in hover. Turning against the or opposite engine spin is easier than with it of course.

I would really be surprised by a torque problem, you would have felt it on the ground, your steering was ok ?
It is so painful to loose a brand new plane.....
Jet flying this week end :-))))

was it range checked power on? i perform a circular range check, both power on, and off, before a commitment to fly, we have had nothing but praise for the flying qualities of this model, in both types, i hope you find the problem, its not nice to lose a ship on the first flight, my commiserations

Thanks Andrew for the offer on a new one. I will hold off for now. Too painful..hehehe..after extensive research, and tests, the issue was with the receiver. It, for some reason was not receiving inputs on channel 1 nor 4. It was sent in for testing and yup there it was. Coupled with the fact that I was way over powered. At 75 yards, the receiver failed. Up close it worked fine. Bummer. AR7000 fyi guys. I am using these on 4 other models and none have given me any issues. Bad apple in every batch im sure 1 in a million and I was it.

Performed test flight yesterday afternoon on Bonanza that had been electrified. Aircraft was basically stock except for modifications for the mounting of an 80 by 85 mm Turnigy 170 KV motor and additional support for battery mounting inside vehicle. Vehicle was controlled by a DX-7 Spektrum full up. All servos were Hitec 65's metal gear type. ESC was also Turnigy 100 amp HV and power was 10 cells Lipos (Rhino) in a 4/4/2 series configuration. Prop was a 19/10 three bladed carbon fiber hollow prop I got second hand from a friend by Biela and worked great.

Taxied to end of our grass 550 foot field and turned into a 6 to 8 knot wind with a 40 degree crosswind component. Initiated takeoff with gradual throttle increase to 60 percent then increased throttle as aircraft reached R1 or rotation speed. Pulled about 1/4 stick and held until nose rotated and increased throttle to 100 percent for climbout. Continued climb to altitude trimming as I went. A few clicks of up and right and headed down wind hands off at about 75 percent power. Gear was retracted as I flew the pattern to get the feel of the new ship. Next downwind I started rolling onto center line and dropped the hammer, hit the threshold of the runway at about 95 mph or so and she was rock solid even in the crosswind with very little lateral movement. Very solid with excellent control harmony on the tail. Rolls were almost axle in nature with point rolls not being any problem. Loops were big and took up the whole sky, tracking was excellent as well. No spins attemped at this time. Don't see a need at this time. After three or four passes up and down the runway set up downwind for a dirty pass to get the feel for a landing. Dirty pass with both gear down and flaps at 20 degrees proved a no brainer. Cleaned up the aircraft and went back to pattern altitude for a full stop landing. Downwind dropped gear and put the flaps at 20 degrees and started a gradual powered decent to landing. Rolled base and dropped flaps to 40 degrees with no pitch change noted. Rolled a very gentle final turn and applied power to compensate for drag. Noticed a little tail wiggle on long final but no drift with the left wind slightly down and a little right rudder being held. Touchdown was nose high on the first third of runway. Runout was great until the nose fell through and then the nose strut seperated the vehicle cleaning the gear doors off and cracking the dang 90 dollar prop. Lynn had failed to fully secure the nose strut to the stud. Oh well, what the hell it's only money and its supposed to be fun. From my standpoint as the pilot for this flight it was a hoot. I have a few hours in the full size bird and Lynn had hundreds so we considered it a successful day even though we bent the prop and will have to add the dang doors back. Next week though pictures I hope. We forgot the camera. It was a hoot and the aircraft was a dream to fly. At 19 pounds its rock solid and the paper towels and cleaner were left at the house. ed

Ed,

Sounds like a dream with electric power. May I ask what your power system cost all up? I am considering going electirc (my first) and want to get an idea of budget. I was originally hoping that my Laser 150 four stroke would have enough power, but I am having second thoughts. Electric is also much cleaner!

Regards,

James.

Motor was a Hobby City Turnigy 80 by 85 mm (170 KV) motor at about 140.00 US with a 100 amp High Voltage ESC from HC as well. The ESC is about 110.00 US. Batteries were a total of 10 cells of 3700 Rhinos from Hobby City. Shipping cost for a 3 to 5 day turn will be about 15 percent of total. I have 2,3,4,and 5 cell packs of the 3700s and mix as needed to make a 10S power package. I use these cells in all my large aircraft and they have proved excellent. A 4/3700 package is about 60.00 US so the price of these cells are excellent compared to many. I have recently changed out all my Lipos to the Rhino packs. The first flight less chargers power package came in at under $450.00 less prop. ed

Thanks Ed, that is very helpful. What kind of flight times are you getting with the Rhino 3700 cells?

James.

Initial flight was 4 minutes to see how things were going. Batteries were recharged following flight to the tune of 2800 mils per pack for the four minutes. Flights of up to 6 minutes are available with throttle management. I love to beat the patch at full throttle so I try and set counter to 5 minutes and be on downwind leg for full stop landing when the time is up. I'm bored any how after that and ready to land. I'm old and jaded. ed

Im not buying the torque roll theory.. At least one person has successfully flown the model, Id like to see one go in person someday.

Gents
.
On the torque question, I did not notice any excessive torque on takeoff. I apply power slowly letting things build up and hold required rudder to keep things straight down the runway. Once I reached lift off speed I applied full throttle for the climbout and as a friend used to say "It was a thing of beauty and a joy to behold". It was never an issue at any time during the flight.

Yesterday I noticed some glitches in the website and I notice a couple of replies missing from this thread. One of the questions asked if I was running the 10 cells in two packs of five in parrallel and that is a negative. The batteries are always in series when discussed at least by me.

I use the smaller packages of 3700s on all my birds as I wish to carry no more weight than needed for the flights. When I fly scale a normal flight for a 10 maneuver card is about 5 minutes which will give me a reserve to make a couple of extra approachs is needed. I know many want to fly longer but that is all the power I need to carry. The Rhino 4900s are also a great battery and several friends have used them with great success as well. What it amounts to is what rings your bell and the size of your pocket book.

Have fun, I sure do as I'm working on a small Starfighter (F-104) and its going together very rapidly.

ed

Ed,

Yes, the website had been fully updated yesterday, to a new version of the site, but now it has reverted back to the old site again. Must have had some problems with it.

My question about parrallel cells was that if I used 4 x 5s packs, 2x2 in series (giving two 10s packs) and the two resulting 10s packs in parrallel, would this then give me a 10s2p pack, whereby i would double my flight time? Am I understanding it all correctly?

Thanks,

James.

Yes you would but I would hate to have that much weight added to the vehicle but again to each his own. I know several folks who run a series parellel system using the A123's. ed

If anybody is looking, I have one brand new in the box I will let go...

hi  everybody,


can anyone tell me  the balance range of  this plane, i can not find my manual to balance my plane .


thanks
jimmy