VMAR ARF quality?

i just recently bought an Discovery ARF from VMAR and i have a few complaints...

First of all> it doesnt even have real covering, it bubbles VERY easy.... the covering is "STICK ON" covering.

Second...if you buy any of their arf's make sure you epoxy the plywood behind the engine mount !..my first day out i went to tourqe start it and the firewall poped back.......I was mad.
I havnt flown all winter and the first dayi get out on a nice day ii have problems..
It was like they put it together with elmers glue>>> things just break one right after another..... well i just bought an GP P51-D Mustang ARF and am going to see how that go's.......im only 15
<and hate being the youngest kid in my club>also i am going to solo in a FULL SCALE Cessna 152 this april for the first time after logging 10 hours in my log book

thanks
-nick

Had to do a minor edit Nick. No problem with your observations, just don't use the word Cra....
Thank you,
Mike

Unfortunately, VMAR don't have a very good track record amongst the people I know who have had them. Very poor build quality and very ordinary covering.....exactly as you've discovered. I haven't made a practice of buying ARF aircraft, but time is becoming more and more of a problem for me these days, so I'm eagerly awaiting the arrival of my World Models Ultimate 120 today. I'm hoping the quality of the World Models stuff is as good as everyone says!!

Just had our LHS show me a VMAR Beaver all proud at what you can buy for very few dollars. My first impression is that you couldn't give it to me. I think I would be busy fixing all the time. The covering was bubbled all over as applied and definitely looked about 1/3 thickness of real covering. The colour in the cover was like a poor paint job with no primer(very uneven). Let's just say I was unimpressed.

Just my opinion of course!

Looks like it's time for them to hang it up, nothing but complaints. I have Vmar Texan that I would almost give away and most probably will. Anyone here in mid-Michigan want one? Contact me.

My LHS has the VMAR Cap 232, it looks good on the website and the box, but when I opened the box I saw the pre printed sticky back covering, and all the hinges were just standing out, the canopy was cracked, it was very thin, Vmar sent them a new canopy to glue on. The landing gear looked like it had been dipped in house paint, and very small. I dont think I would ever buy a Vmar kit. Daz...

Yes I would have to agree. Poor workmanship bad QC was the reason I started my own kit/pre-built ARC's company.

While I can not match any of the ARF mfg. prices I do hope to get some out there as it word of mouth that makes or breaks companys.

I just got fedup with all the crap out there. And wanted to mfg. a great plane at a fair price.

Thanks, Mark

Thanks for the support guys

thought i was alone, but no

ive decided to recover the whole plane and reinforce most of everything, especially the ribs, i found them either loos or cracked.
Better get started cutting some ribs out.

So much for an ARF!

:Boxing:

-nick

That sounds like an good idea. I'm sure once you go over everything like you are, you will probably have one great flying plane. Daz...

Hi Nick,

The bad news: you bought a VMAR

The good news: Its a trainer, so a few weeks from now it will be smashed and you will be glad you got a cheap one, or you will have learned to fly and ready for something else, and glad you got a cheap one.

The Vmar Apache was popular for a while at my club. They have the easy to overheat stick-on covering, as do Hobbyco, Tower,and many of the other low-buget trainers, but they are cheap, easy to fly, and easy to fix with tape and CA. All of which are excelent qualities for a trainer. I had one for a couple months. Sold it once i got solo qualified, and although it is no shining example of model making, it served its function for me, and it is still getting weekly use a year later.

ARFs are pretty commonly lacking in firewall strength. Many of us end up adding triangle stock to the inside of the fuse to beef it up. A friend had a similar problem with an Ultra Stick 40 ARF a couple weeks ago. Good plane, they just tend to take that shortcut. Love the GP ARFs, but even the GP's will take some finesse on your part to get it set up, working well, and maintained. It really is a builders sport, hard to get around it.

Not sure about the GP 51, but other 51's tend to be extreemly vulnerable to tip stalls on landing aproaches, its a very impressive and humbling experience. No amount of Cessna 152 or Trainer RC will prepair you for it.


Regarding world models,

Just built a World Models Zero/ Yak/p40 (depends on what stickers you put on it ) Pretty sure it is the cheapest plane World models makes, and guess what?! Iron-on non-sticky covering, straight and light wings & fuse, Braced firewall, good hardware, fiberglass cowl. All for 75$. Easy to toss together too. Not pretty design, but they are popular here for open combat and goofing off.

Haven't seen any of the regular world models lineup in person, but they look great in the cataloge, and a couple people here have good things to say about them. My airplane closet is full, but once there is a vacancy, i might give another World Model a shot. (after checking up with folks here at RCU.) Anyone have the Cap 232 120? or the Zero 60?


Well sirs, have fun and best of luck!

shmo

I had a VMar Spit but sent it back because too much of it got crunched during shipping. They sent me a new one after multiple E-mails and a month later.
The cowl on my Spit has got to weigh around 4oz.! It is painted with non-flexible paint which already has long cracks and chips in it. There is enough fiberglass in this cowl to build three cowls.
Otherwise everything looks great for $150.
I won't buy another one. That's for sure.

My opinion on the GP warbird arfs is that they are junk. The WM warbirds put GP to shame. I currently have three of the WM arfs and they all fly superbly. The P-51 will float a long time on landings with a .46 up front. It will tip stall but only when it is slow enough to run out and catch it! Wide open it will fly fast-quite fast. Good control response through all speeds.

I wish I knew then what I know now about VMar.

Jeff

Had a VMAR P-51 D once Not likely I will go down that road ever again.

I just bought a cap 231ex Vmar arf... I was all together in about 5 hours.... Next day I did a test flight... Rolls, low inverted passes,
Hovering,, I would say that for 200 canadian, It is the best kit to buy.. Go over the firewall and fuse with epoxy and your good to go... I even tested a hard landing and nothing happened. So far so good on my kit... It has a 75 gms.. They can't be all that bad...
L8ER

I have a VMAR Discovery which has about a hundred flights on it - I am using it to train my wife to fly and it sure flys nice. We've even tested its durability in a cartwheel with minimal damage. Sure is better than the thunder tigre MK II we used before.
The covering is real easy to work with - heat it carefully with a heat gun until it sags and then quit with the heat - it will shrink nice & tight as it cools. Best price/performance ratio trainer that flies well.

bmx- and others- thanks for the info about vmar. you might want to search here and other places for theads about planes/manufacturers before you buy them, so you don't have to mess with fixing them as much. for instance i would not recommend the great planes mustang arf. it has a photographed foam covering which is hard to repair.

there are some decent arfs and a bunch of mediocre ones. that is why i recommend that before you buy an arf that you search here and other web places, and also talk to the other guys at your club about them to see what their experience has been.

world models seems to make decent arfs but even with them i would look at the firewall and maybe reinforce it, especially if i was putting on an engine that is at or over their recommended power limit. i would always add a good glue bead to as many of the joints as i could get to. don't overdo the glue too much just add a small bead of glue like an aliphatic resin glue to the joints.

the world mustang 40 size seems ok but their retracts seem to be a bit weak, and you might want to replace the strut wires with music wire struts.

Hey Guys, You know the old saying"Opinions are like rectums.... " Well , I bought a VMAR T-34 MENTOR ,cost about$160. Liked it cause it's bigger than the World Models Mentor. Any way, it's a great flying plane with a Magnum .61 4-stroke w/ a 10.5x7.5 3-blade prop. Mine came as is, checked the glue joints, hinges firewall attachment etc ' nothing Ugly to report. I will agree with you about the "Shelf Paper" covering, It's a little on the thick side, but after about 30 good and 1 or 2 rough ones , it's still going strong. The only real problem I had was that the landing gear struts are too close together and the plane will scrape a wing if your taxi speed is too quik. Like all ARF'S, it depends on the guy or girl doing the actual assembling that makes the difference. If they were out hitting the sauce the night before , Their mind is probably not on their job. By all means,AND FOR SAFETY'S SAKE, always inspect you aircraft before you fly!!! If you don't like what you see, DON'T RISK IT!!! JEFF

I shopped their website and found a few planes to purchase but once I mentioned them at the field to fellow members they told me to avoid the "VMAR" like the plague. Wood used was of poor quality

I have a T-34 as well and it flies great. Very quick and no bad habits.
Jeff, I too thought this was a good buy for the money and we were right. I have a OS70 FS in mine and the only problem I have is the cowl. Flyign with out it. I have a pair of landing gear that points out instead of in but I have not used it yet. I was having the same issue with the main landing gear wheels too close to each other. I put larger wheel and moved them as far out as possible and really haven't had a problem since.
Overall I like the plane and would buy another T-34.
Steve

Hey Steve , Looks like you and I are the only people not having problems with are Mentors. I agree with you about the fiberglass cowl, it looks like it came from another aircraft. I got a buddy who does special effects for movies etc. He said he can easily make me a new (accurate,scale, and better fitting)cowl. I'm hoping it will pass for semi-scale(ha ha) In all fairness, These planes are not meant for IMAC, they're just semi-scale warbird arf's . Until I have a problem with QUALITY CONTROL, I have no rservations about purchasing another Vmar product. In fact , the new TexanII is going to be available from VMAR and I've heard that they are going to have a NAVY scheme. I f I get one ,good or bad , I'm going to post results to share with all the doubters. Jeff

I hate to say it, but I doubt I will buy another model from them. While I am happy about the one I have, excluding the cowl, there are too many people bitterly complaining about their's there must be some truth to it.
What that truth is seems to be hard to identify. Unless I can find someone that is experienced that can vouch for any model personally I won't buy it anyway. There are way too many people involved and willing to share their experiences for me to be a pioneer.
Anyway I have full dance card just finished a Sig SE. working on a Lanier Taylorcraft. 1/4 scale cap in the garage and a twinkle in my eye for a 1/3 scale weeks solution biplane.
If you do find a solution to the cowl question, cause I sure don't think my OS70 will fit in the one, please let me know.
[email protected]
Best of luck to you :-)
Steve

I and my fellow club members have the 40 size stick models.
We like them so far.
I'm flying mine electric so I don't worry about the vibration.

I purchased the vmar 40 size chipmunk & the 40 size stik and for what I paid I was well pleased. The covering on both models was perfect! I have flew the heck out of both & so far no problems. The chipmunk came with a pilot figure & was more detail than any arf I've seen or stik built for that matter. Maby I just got lucky

A member at our club has two V-MAR arf's, not bad for the money and if you crash it who cares. What did you guys that had bad experiences think you were going to get for around hundred bucks? You pay for what you get. To the others that like theirs isn't this hobby great, the cheapier the better and still have fun.

...way to THROW away your hard earned CASH!!!! IMO!!

Here is MY story of VMAR/Richmond RC(herein known as VMAR) customer satisfaction or lack of it.

I got back into flying after a twelve year layoff..I still had an older beautiful EZ Cessna 182...but as luck would have it, my first landing attempt..with an instructor who decided to start jabbering with another club member by my side..I filtered it through some branches. ADIOS wing..everything else came out relatively unscathed..enough of that. So I see and read this ad..I buy the VMAR APACHE 40 trainer...it has a bolt on wing and looks nice and HUGE!!

Three weeks and 3 phone calls later..I get a plane..OK I can deal..it's shipped from CANADA.....keep that it mind.

I start to assemble this li'l gem..let's see a li'l glue here for the tail feathers..WHOA....why is the stab looking like the leaning Tower of Pisa?? So I check the cutouts and the left slot is higher by 4mm..and the fuse is lying FLAT on a FLAT table and the FUSE looks to be true other than the cutout.

I call VMAR, they in turn put me on hold for awhile. I speak, get told just rasp down the high-side....I'm not building a 747!!

I disagree cuz there won't be enough strong wood left back there and I want a straight flying plane as the ad states.

So, I end up PAYING the Shipping charges to VMAR and back FROM VMAR for the replacement kit!! THAT'S THREE shipping charges I have now ate for VMAR. The new kit?? It arrived TWO weeks later and it had WING damage from shipping(cracked ribs and holes in covering!!) SCREW this..I don't need the aggravation.. I'll fix it myself!!

The plane got me back into flying but I had to MAKE it flyable!
No newbie beginner would have seen all the problems.

"It's got DUBRO"..remember that slogan they were using..well it wasn't DUBRO for any CRITICAL stuff..unless you consider landing gear straps critical..oh, 4 clevises were DUBRO too..SORRY!!

Well that's my SORDID tale.."F"- VMAR
This plane was no BAHGAN fo'me!!

Had to level the stab. Took two scap piece of balsa and some epoxy. I was going to strengthen the tail anyway so probably didn't cost me any time. Like any ARF alittle here and alittle there makes for a better plane.
Steve

My two cents,

There are a lot of good ARFs out there. In the last two
years I have built 14 of them from 5 manufacturers. Every
one has some shortcomings. None of the 6 VMARs were
perfect, but neither were any from the other companies.

Look at the pluses: VMAR have good looking designs others
don't offer. Canadian Chipmunk, Australian Pilatus PC-9, Texan II,
Harvard, Tucano, Mentor, DH Beaver in 3 sizes, and the new
Piper Tomahawk, and Van RV-4, plus the Mustang, and
Corsair. No other company matches such a complete line
of semi-scale planes. They also have a complete line of
trainers and sport designs.

Each model is more completely assembled than any other
ARF. The finishes have very detailed markings, The surfaces
are hinged and pinned, the push rods are installed, pilots are
supplied and installed, the canopies are installed, adjustable
servo trays that need no drilling are supplied.

The new ECS covering is gorgeous! I have the new Cessna 182
with the GMS 61 ringed engine. Where else can you get a combo
price as low as offered by Richmond RC? And It flies like a
dream. At first it was nose heavy, but I moved the batteries
back and now get the best aerobatics you can from a Cessna.

Every model I have seen, has a film that sags and wrinkles
from time to time. Usually it is prolonged exposure to hot
weather here in Florida. They all require a hot air gun to
tighten them up. Do not use an Iron, just a hot air gun and
don't get too close.

Now for the really good part. Every VMAR model I have
has flown extremely well. They fly straight and true, and
are very maneuverable.

I correct any warps, and make sure the tail surfaces are
glued on square and straight. A couple of times I had to
do some sanding and shimming. Two other famous brands
also have had bad stab openings cut. They also had to be
reworked to get the stabs level.

I am careful to get the engine mounted with the specified
thrust line, plus I add 2 degrees down thrust and 2 degrees
right thrust. Be careful here, and make the thrust line go
through the center of the cowl opening. Some of their thrust
line instructions are not correct. Also balance the model
carefully using their metric dimensions, as some of their
conversions to English are not accurate.

If you fly off of a paved runway, replace the wheels, as
the ones supplied are not round and do not roll smoothly.

My current favorite plane is the VMAR Texan II with the
GMS 120 ringed engine. It is a beautiful semi scale plane
with USAF colors that will perform as well as any aerobatic
model I have flown. It outperforms all of those ugly stick
types, and looks good at the same time.

I have both the new ECS Tomahawk, and Van RV-4
on order. They should be as beautiful as my Cessna,
and I know, because they are VMAR they will fly great.

To all those who have knocked VMAR, I recommend
you give them another look. Over the last 2 years every
new model has shown improvement and elimination
of earlier problems. The latest designs are unique plus
they look and fly great.

By George