I WAS JUST LOOKING THROUGH SOME OF THE EUROPEAN MODELING MAGAZINES AND IT SEEMS THAT THE ARF'S THAT A COMPANY OUT OF ENGLAND, FLAIR PRODUCTS LTD, ARE THE SAME AS THOSE OFFERED BY GIANT SCALE PLANES. ALL THE SPECS ARE THE SAME , EVERYTHING IS RIGHT DOWN TO THE AD PICTURE. i WAS UNDER THE ASSUMPTION THAT GSP DID THERE OWN. I GUESS NOT. ANY THOUGHTS?

It's been my experience that GSP just sells them, such as they are.

Same stuff. Jamara also sells them and who knows who else. They are made in mainland China and sold to whoever wants to carry them.

Jim

Same as the Lanier 21st century series, too.

The guys at Flair do sell the same planes that GSP sells but Flair flight tests all their ARFs that they sell and makes changes to them where they need it. I have had dealings with the guys over there and they are a great crew. I’m waiting on their Stearman now. On a side note while I was at the WRAM show a couple of weekends ago GSP was there and had alllll those planes on display. At a quick glance they look nice but after you get past the covering there is a noticeable difference compared to quality ARFs. First off these planes don’t even have a brand on them they are just what I call them "generic" and are sub par kits. Like so many ARFs out there now there is just a flood of terrible kits and arfs out there and these ones are no different. While sneaking a peak at the innards I saw that the wood was all splintering and there was hardly any glue at some of the strong points. That’s about as far as I got before I was yelled at by one of the GSP guys because I had lifted the plane out of the box like so many were doing and just taking a quick peak inside them. These planes were also over priced. Your money could be better spent else were on a plane that you will be happy with.

But that’s just my two cents !

Does flair have a web site?

Great Post and extremely accurate!

Funny, I picked up some of their kits at the WRAM show and looked at them, and they did not yell at ME. Or any of the other guys who were doing it.
I have the P47. There was no splintered wood, no loose glue joints, the covering was fine, and it flies up a storm. And it was a STEAL at $169.99.
And you can't order them from FLAIR in England without paying a preposterous amount for that. That's a silly idea. Even if you get the 17.5%vat off, the prices in england are much higher...like the same price, only in pounds rather than dollars. Plus the shipping from the UK. Having had about a dozen kits shipped from the UK, I can say from experience that a big one like an ARF is going to be at least fifty dollars. Shipping FROM england is much more than TO england.
And...to say that flair tests the planes and make changes...where did you get that information? That's nonsense. SAME PLANES.
What does the Flair Stearman have to do with this discussion? It's a KIT, made by Flair( a nice kit!) and has nothing to do with these ARFS.
And...Lanier is selling these same ARFs, too. Are you saying that they are better when they come from Lanier than from GSP? Their booths were twenty feet from each other at the WRAM show, so you could look at both brands...both are identical.
I actually HAVE flown one of these planes, and I was very satisfied. And to say they are overpriced is pretty silly.
This sounds to me like yet another anti-irwin troll. Spare us.
If anybody is seriously interested in buying one of these planes, check out some of the other threads, like the one about the corsair.
Otherwise, spare us the rumors and innuendoes.

As a matter of fact I do have a 60 size GSP Giles 202. A buddy bought the cap and the Sukhoi. His were very low quality. My 202 is not the quality you would expect for a plane of this price. It's covered in econocote for cryin' out loud. At the risk of sounding like I'm making a personal attack, GSP.com lacks much to be desired in customer service. I know of a hobby shop who has discontinued business with them because of their service and the quality of the merchandise.

I'll not deal with GSP again and I'm finished with the discussion.

Well,again here we go with the gsp.com discussion.We have heard about the quality issues of their planes.If gsp and flair are the same then how come nobody is flaming flair?I'll say this just once,I've got the corsair,I'm happy with what I got for what I paid.I cant comment on their other aircraft,but if you need to know ,then just do a search as there are numerous threads about them.So lets keep this one on track.

Easy there Easy, No I don’t own one and never will based on experiences from friends who made the mistake. I simply stated that from what I have seen these planes are simply a waste of money sure they cheap but like anything else you get what you pay for. Also if you read my post I mentioned that FLAIR flight tests those ARFs simply go here http://dspace.dial.pipex.com/town/te...rames_page.htm and you will read what I am talking about. They simply state they provide additional information and hardware where they feel it necessary. As for WRAM they didn’t yell at me and my club members when everyone was up there looking at them. It was later in the day on our third or fourth round that we went back to get a better look because of fewer people in the way. We were doing nothing more than everyone had been earlier and the GSP guy yelled at me and a few other gentlemen for lifting a wing out of the box of the Christen Eagle as we wanted to see how the graphics were applied. Again screen printed and probably wouldn’t last a season. I am simply stating what I have experienced first hand I have flown them and they were nothing to write home about. As for quality they are sub par and there is no disputing that. These are just my onions as a modeler who competes in Aerobatics I would prefer to spend a little more to get a better product and that’s what it comes down too if you want a less expensive plane with flying characteristics to match that’s fine my post was simply stating what I have seen and experienced.

Exactly. Nobody is slamming Flair or Lanier for selling the exact same product.
People have axes to grind with HHI. It's FUN to flame people on the net. Watch how it progresses. You will find people who never even owned the product adding their two cents. It's the nature of the net.
I read the link from Flair...sounds like just so much marketing nonsense. So they replace some clevises.
Actually, I used ALL the hardware as supplied in my kit. There were no problems with it.
As far as Joss Stick saying that the Giles is not a good value for the money...the GSP one sells for $199, or $169 when on sale, show special or the like. The Yellow Aircraft one is $349. No sales, no specials. Natch, you get what you pay for. But I do not see any other that has the same value for the money as the GSP one.
Anyway, this is getting old.
Let the GSP employees who read this forum defend themselves, I don't work for GSP. I just get tired of reading the same old dogpile over and over again.

I do own the C-160 Transall. There were a few problems, namely the supplied tanks did not fit the nacelles, but that was easily corrected. The airframe itself was excellent. The plane balanced nicely and flies like it is on rails. I guarantee that everyone at the field stops and looks at it when I fly it. It lands beautifully and even with one engine out I found no significant problems. The plane, as advertised, is a little overpiced, but I was extremely satisfied with what I got. I plan on taking a good look at their Corsair at Toledo and maybe even bring one home.

$259.95

55" - $199 67" - $249 on their website. A show special or similar would probably be $30 less. Anyway...
The Transall looked really interesting to me. If I did not already have two ARF twins, the scaletech OV10 and the VQ A26, I would have gotten it. The OV10 came out, and the engines I would have put into the transall went into that instead.
I saw the kit at the WRAM show and was really impressed. Nice. Not surprised that it costs more than the others, you have two of everything! Still looks like a good deal.
Consider this:
The OV10 was $279 on an introductory special. All wood, three fuselages, only 52" span. I thought it was a very good deal, nice craftsmanship.
The A26 was $320. 68" span. Nothing like the quality of the GSP Transall. VERY cheapo Vietnamese construction, all cheap hardwoods and stickyback covering and thin plastic parts. It comes out alright, but certainly not a premium kit. I would have gladly paid $30 more to get the sort of quality(glass fuselage and cowls, nicer covering) that the transall has.
The only other ARF twin I know of is the WM P82. Anybody know what that one costs?

Are you saying my 120 size Lanier Extra 300L was made in mainland China?

$329.99 says http://www.airborne-models.com/

I've been flying the Hobbico TwinStar for 4 years now with 2-
O S 25FX's. Flies great. As with all Hobbico products it has the cheesy covering, but this winter I plan to strip it down and recover in Ultra-Cote. There is that new OV-10 ARF coming out, covered in Ultra-Cote, by Scaletech that looks sweet, but I'm waiting (hoping) someone will come out with a larger twin ARF.

Only the "21st Century Series" ARF's from Lanier are made in China and have any relation to the Flair or GSP ones. All of Lanier's others are made here in the states by lanier, far as I know.
I am not familiar with the 120 Extra.

I think that's pretty reasonable. It's a nice model...has punky and awful retract mounts, just like GSP and all the others! If I remember correctly, they also include a set of their pasteboard retracts, too.
The Transall seems, to me, to be a pretty reasonable value for the money.

I have the OV10, it's a honey. Rich Uravitch has a lot of people asking for an ARF version of the larger one, I bet he ends up doing that. Would probably cost much more than any of the three other planes we are talking about...bigger airframe, better quality...

I got the Flair(?) Giles 202, and I have to say that I didn't find any complaints, the fuselage was square, strong, light, with enough glue. The wings are the same, and the covering is well above my own skill, although I don't have a clue what the material is. My only complaint is the black trim, which is peeling off, and will need replacing. The bottom line is quite simple. In Vietnam, China, Korea, etc. there are companies who design and make these planes, and then sell them off to big companies, like flair. Thats why I've never seen a company name or logo on any box or instructions. I also know someone who got the cap 232, and loves it! By the way, many of you were giving out about its price, and I have to say I was quite happy. I got mine for 250 Euro. For that, I got one pre-built G-202 (120 size). I know another club member who bought a Kyosho 40 size warbird, and even though he has payed the same for something much smaller, the quality is very bad. The covering bubbled up in the slightest of sun, and it also looks really fake. Its undercarraige alway buckled on take-off. He's owned it for almost a year, and I don't think that it has flown yet. I think so, that the Giles I got, was very good quality, and apart from the covering, I have no complaints!

Yes Flair does have a website http://www.flairproducts.co.uk

It is a pity you did not check your facts before you wrote your reply. I can tell you that we do test these models at Flair and we do work closely with the manufacturers to improve the range. I am very encouraged by the co=operation we get from the Chinese and if you wish to help us in this we would be pleased to receive any constructive suggestions. So, in future rather than pass on hearsay maybe you could contact me.
Richard Smart - Flair Products Ltd

Tell me very precisely what the exact changes you have made between YOUR arfs and the same from GSP's and Lanier's.
Every change, please.
Because, except for maybe throwing in some hardware, I think they are the exact same models.
Please, very precisely, what all these changes are, so someone might justify actually buying one from the UK and paying for having it transported, rather than buying it for $169 here in the states.