gluing hinges
03-27-2008 | 03:57 AM
#2
Senior Member
RE: gluing hinges
Pacer Hinge Glue
None of the problems of epoxy and it holds just as good. No way I'll ever epoxy a hinge again.
It is dead easy to use. It won't ruin a single hinge and stop your build dead in the water. If you smear any of it on the airplane, it wipes off with a damp paper towel. Try that with epoxy. If you get any on your hands, you probably won't have an allergic reaction as some do with epoxy.
None of the problems of epoxy and it holds just as good. No way I'll ever epoxy a hinge again.
It is dead easy to use. It won't ruin a single hinge and stop your build dead in the water. If you smear any of it on the airplane, it wipes off with a damp paper towel. Try that with epoxy. If you get any on your hands, you probably won't have an allergic reaction as some do with epoxy.
03-27-2008 | 03:58 AM
#3
Senior Member
RE: gluing hinges
BTW, if you're hellbent to use epoxy, don't use 5minute for anything critical. It doesn't penetrate worth spit. The only thing 5minute excels at is adding weight.
03-27-2008 | 11:36 PM
#5
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From: **,
WA
RE: gluing hinges
I have had a hinge point work loose with epoxy. I have not tried Pacer hinge glue but I hear it is good stuff. I went with Gorilla glue this go around with a 30%r and large hinge points. I have been told that Gorilla will last a long time!!!!!!
03-28-2008 | 05:05 AM
#6
My Feedback: (221)
RE: gluing hinges
Yes. Gorilla glue works great. It will form a mold around the barbs on the hinge that will not pull out. A little water in the hole, then the glue, then the hinge.
For many years I have used good old TiteBond wood glue. It cleans up with water, will not clog the hinge like epoxy or CA, and works great with both flat pinned hinges and round hinge points. For slots I use the wide aplicator on the small bottles, and for round ones I put it in a syringe applicator and shoot it in the hole.
(tip---after inserting the hinges in the wing or tail, stand it up with the leading edge up and let the glue set up this way. This will get any 'puddle fo glue around the end of the hinge that sticks through the wood, if any. It will mold to the barbs or holes and will never come out.) I have never had TiteBond fail a hinge, even in a few cases of flutter.
DO NOT USE EPOXY!!
For many years I have used good old TiteBond wood glue. It cleans up with water, will not clog the hinge like epoxy or CA, and works great with both flat pinned hinges and round hinge points. For slots I use the wide aplicator on the small bottles, and for round ones I put it in a syringe applicator and shoot it in the hole.
(tip---after inserting the hinges in the wing or tail, stand it up with the leading edge up and let the glue set up this way. This will get any 'puddle fo glue around the end of the hinge that sticks through the wood, if any. It will mold to the barbs or holes and will never come out.) I have never had TiteBond fail a hinge, even in a few cases of flutter.
DO NOT USE EPOXY!!
03-30-2008 | 08:16 AM
#7
Senior Member
RE: gluing hinges
Thanks for asking the question and starting this thread. Glad I saw it.
I just cut the slots for the aileron hinges on a Balsa Nova ARF, and was going to do the epoxy thing today. I agree with what everyone in here has said about epoxy....I just never thought "outside the box" about this. I've never heard of Pacer Hinge Glue. What is it and where do you get it? Sounds like Titebond is a good way to go. Also, here's something I've been doing since I had a scary "flutter" problem on a fast pattern plane. I use very small flathead woodscrews to "pin" the flat hinges. Drill from the bottom of the wing and aileron up thru the hinge, but don't penetrate thru the upper surface. This way, nothing shows from the top view of your plane. Put a little clear GE Silicon glue/sealant on the screws so they won't turn loose under vibration. The Silicon glue lets you remove the screws if you ever need to do this. The small flathead screws are put in so they are flush with the surface on the underside of the wing trailing edge and aileron. Makes for very secure hinges.
Regards
JC
I just cut the slots for the aileron hinges on a Balsa Nova ARF, and was going to do the epoxy thing today. I agree with what everyone in here has said about epoxy....I just never thought "outside the box" about this. I've never heard of Pacer Hinge Glue. What is it and where do you get it? Sounds like Titebond is a good way to go. Also, here's something I've been doing since I had a scary "flutter" problem on a fast pattern plane. I use very small flathead woodscrews to "pin" the flat hinges. Drill from the bottom of the wing and aileron up thru the hinge, but don't penetrate thru the upper surface. This way, nothing shows from the top view of your plane. Put a little clear GE Silicon glue/sealant on the screws so they won't turn loose under vibration. The Silicon glue lets you remove the screws if you ever need to do this. The small flathead screws are put in so they are flush with the surface on the underside of the wing trailing edge and aileron. Makes for very secure hinges.
Regards
JC
03-30-2008 | 08:30 AM
#8
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From: Newton,
KS
RE: gluing hinges
Another vote for Gorilla glue. Just don't use too much and keep an eye on it while it sets up because it foams up. Wipe off the excess. I used to use epoxy and still pin the hinges with a toothpic and CA but it's not needed with the Gorilla glue.
03-30-2008 | 01:34 PM
#9
RE: gluing hinges
If you're talking about the Robart style of pinned hinge points (the kind you drill a hole for--not slotted hinges), I always use 30-minute epoxy, but I've heard Gorilla Glue and Pacer hinge glue are also great.
In R&D at Hobbico, we pretty much always use 30-minute epoxy for these types of hinges. Epoxy doesn't bond well to the plastic of the hinge point, but it's a mechanical bond that holds the barbs of the hinge point in. I never use anything faster than 30-minute because you need the working time--you must thoroughly coat the inside of each hinge hole as well as the hinge--I use a piece of leftover 2-56 pushrod wire to do this. I also put a few drops of oil on the pin and where the two halves of the hinges meet.
One time, a long time ago on a crashed model, I tried pulling an aileron off of a wing that had been hinged as described above (with epoxy). With all of my strength I couldn't separate the aileron from the wing and the hinges held. So I'm content with epoxy.
And if you get any epoxy in the hinge gap you can easily chip it off with an X-Acto knife (well, if the model is covered with iron-on film like MonoKote).
In R&D at Hobbico, we pretty much always use 30-minute epoxy for these types of hinges. Epoxy doesn't bond well to the plastic of the hinge point, but it's a mechanical bond that holds the barbs of the hinge point in. I never use anything faster than 30-minute because you need the working time--you must thoroughly coat the inside of each hinge hole as well as the hinge--I use a piece of leftover 2-56 pushrod wire to do this. I also put a few drops of oil on the pin and where the two halves of the hinges meet.
One time, a long time ago on a crashed model, I tried pulling an aileron off of a wing that had been hinged as described above (with epoxy). With all of my strength I couldn't separate the aileron from the wing and the hinges held. So I'm content with epoxy.
And if you get any epoxy in the hinge gap you can easily chip it off with an X-Acto knife (well, if the model is covered with iron-on film like MonoKote).
03-30-2008 | 03:59 PM
#10
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From: Schenectady,
NY
RE: gluing hinges
Hello, to ALL. My name is Ken.
This question pops up every now and then. I have been building models for a LONG time now (50 yrs.) and have used every adhesive known to man (well most of them anyway). Here's my recommendation:
PLEASE, when gluing Hinge Points or the Flat plastic hinges, use TITEBOND II aliphatic, or any of the other water resistant aliphatics (Weldbond is very good also). Just make sure when you use the aliphatics, that your hinge holes are beveled and deep enough. Also, don't waste time assembling the surfaces. Why? Well, the water in the aliphatic will immediately start to swell the wood of the hinge hole. This swelling causes the wood surrounding the hinge(flat or round) to clamp down and mold around the hinge. Once dry, the hinge WILL NOT pull away from the surface. Again, I state, hinges properly glued with aliphatics WILL NOT pull out, even under severe flutter conditions. By the way, Pacer Hinge Glue is an aliphatic formula. I've tried Gorilla glues and do not like the results. The aliphatics are totally foolproof, and they REALLY WORK! Try an aliphatic, you wil not be disappointed!
TIP: Make sure to roughen up the surface of the hinges with 100grit sandpaper. This removes the mold release and leaves a textured surface for the glue. Also, I join both surfaces at the same time(rather than one side at a time with a drying period in between) so I can flex the joint a few times while the glue is wet to ensure that the hinge points are properly aligned and not binding. For cleanup, warm slightly soapy water. If any gets in the hinge line or hinges, after it drys just flex the surface a few times and pick the dried glue out. No sweat and your surfaces are bonded forever!
This question pops up every now and then. I have been building models for a LONG time now (50 yrs.) and have used every adhesive known to man (well most of them anyway). Here's my recommendation:
PLEASE, when gluing Hinge Points or the Flat plastic hinges, use TITEBOND II aliphatic, or any of the other water resistant aliphatics (Weldbond is very good also). Just make sure when you use the aliphatics, that your hinge holes are beveled and deep enough. Also, don't waste time assembling the surfaces. Why? Well, the water in the aliphatic will immediately start to swell the wood of the hinge hole. This swelling causes the wood surrounding the hinge(flat or round) to clamp down and mold around the hinge. Once dry, the hinge WILL NOT pull away from the surface. Again, I state, hinges properly glued with aliphatics WILL NOT pull out, even under severe flutter conditions. By the way, Pacer Hinge Glue is an aliphatic formula. I've tried Gorilla glues and do not like the results. The aliphatics are totally foolproof, and they REALLY WORK! Try an aliphatic, you wil not be disappointed!
TIP: Make sure to roughen up the surface of the hinges with 100grit sandpaper. This removes the mold release and leaves a textured surface for the glue. Also, I join both surfaces at the same time(rather than one side at a time with a drying period in between) so I can flex the joint a few times while the glue is wet to ensure that the hinge points are properly aligned and not binding. For cleanup, warm slightly soapy water. If any gets in the hinge line or hinges, after it drys just flex the surface a few times and pick the dried glue out. No sweat and your surfaces are bonded forever!
03-30-2008 | 08:38 PM
#11
Senior Member
RE: gluing hinges
Starfighter quote:
"PLEASE, when gluing Hinge Points or the Flat plastic hinges, use TITEBOND II aliphatic..."
__________________________________________________ _________
I bought a bottle of TITEBOND II today at Home Depot.
Speaking of using "every glue known to man"....I began building model planes in 1955 when the glue of choice was Ambroids. That was before epoxy glues and CA adhesives were available. By any chance were you a Starfighter pilot (Lockheed F-104)?
Regards
JC
"PLEASE, when gluing Hinge Points or the Flat plastic hinges, use TITEBOND II aliphatic..."
__________________________________________________ _________
I bought a bottle of TITEBOND II today at Home Depot.
Speaking of using "every glue known to man"....I began building model planes in 1955 when the glue of choice was Ambroids. That was before epoxy glues and CA adhesives were available. By any chance were you a Starfighter pilot (Lockheed F-104)?
Regards
JC
03-30-2008 | 10:17 PM
#12
My Feedback: (221)
RE: gluing hinges
ORIGINAL: Starfighter
Hello, to ALL. My name is Ken.
This question pops up every now and then. I have been building models for a LONG time now (50 yrs.) and have used every adhesive known to man (well most of them anyway). Here's my recommendation:
PLEASE, when gluing Hinge Points or the Flat plastic hinges, use TITEBOND II aliphatic, or any of the other water resistant aliphatics (Weldbond is very good also). Just make sure when you use the aliphatics, that your hinge holes are beveled and deep enough. Also, don't waste time assembling the surfaces. Why? Well, the water in the aliphatic will immediately start to swell the wood of the hinge hole. This swelling causes the wood surrounding the hinge(flat or round) to clamp down and mold around the hinge. Once dry, the hinge WILL NOT pull away from the surface. Again, I state, hinges properly glued with aliphatics WILL NOT pull out, even under severe flutter conditions. By the way, Pacer Hinge Glue is an aliphatic formula. I've tried Gorilla glues and do not like the results. The aliphatics are totally foolproof, and they REALLY WORK! Try an aliphatic, you wil not be disappointed!
TIP: Make sure to roughen up the surface of the hinges with 100grit sandpaper. This removes the mold release and leaves a textured surface for the glue. Also, I join both surfaces at the same time(rather than one side at a time with a drying period in between) so I can flex the joint a few times while the glue is wet to ensure that the hinge points are properly aligned and not binding. For cleanup, warm slightly soapy water. If any gets in the hinge line or hinges, after it drys just flex the surface a few times and pick the dried glue out. No sweat and your surfaces are bonded forever!
Hello, to ALL. My name is Ken.
This question pops up every now and then. I have been building models for a LONG time now (50 yrs.) and have used every adhesive known to man (well most of them anyway). Here's my recommendation:
PLEASE, when gluing Hinge Points or the Flat plastic hinges, use TITEBOND II aliphatic, or any of the other water resistant aliphatics (Weldbond is very good also). Just make sure when you use the aliphatics, that your hinge holes are beveled and deep enough. Also, don't waste time assembling the surfaces. Why? Well, the water in the aliphatic will immediately start to swell the wood of the hinge hole. This swelling causes the wood surrounding the hinge(flat or round) to clamp down and mold around the hinge. Once dry, the hinge WILL NOT pull away from the surface. Again, I state, hinges properly glued with aliphatics WILL NOT pull out, even under severe flutter conditions. By the way, Pacer Hinge Glue is an aliphatic formula. I've tried Gorilla glues and do not like the results. The aliphatics are totally foolproof, and they REALLY WORK! Try an aliphatic, you wil not be disappointed!
TIP: Make sure to roughen up the surface of the hinges with 100grit sandpaper. This removes the mold release and leaves a textured surface for the glue. Also, I join both surfaces at the same time(rather than one side at a time with a drying period in between) so I can flex the joint a few times while the glue is wet to ensure that the hinge points are properly aligned and not binding. For cleanup, warm slightly soapy water. If any gets in the hinge line or hinges, after it drys just flex the surface a few times and pick the dried glue out. No sweat and your surfaces are bonded forever!
03-30-2008 | 11:44 PM
#13
Senior Member
RE: gluing hinges
Ram3500 quote:
"you just can't beat water clean up, when it comes to glue."
__________________________________________________ _______
The water clean up is the clincher for me.
Using CA, I've glued myself to several things including my workbench.
Epoxy is a mess. No matter how careful I try to be, I always get it on my hands.
Regards
JC
"you just can't beat water clean up, when it comes to glue."
__________________________________________________ _______
The water clean up is the clincher for me.
Using CA, I've glued myself to several things including my workbench.
Epoxy is a mess. No matter how careful I try to be, I always get it on my hands.
Regards
JC
03-31-2008 | 05:27 PM
#14
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From: Snohomish, WA
RE: gluing hinges
How are you suppose to make a beveled hole when the Robart Hinge tool is basically a drill bit that is going to make a hole with straight sides?
03-31-2008 | 08:41 PM
#15
My Feedback: (221)
RE: gluing hinges
ORIGINAL: GBR2
How are you suppose to make a beveled hole when the Robart Hinge tool is basically a drill bit that is going to make a hole with straight sides?
How are you suppose to make a beveled hole when the Robart Hinge tool is basically a drill bit that is going to make a hole with straight sides?
03-31-2008 | 08:52 PM
#16
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From: Schenectady,
NY
RE: gluing hinges
Hi. The bevel is the recess for the hinge knuckle. An Xacto knife works, but the fastest and most consistent method is by using a rotary cutter like those from ROBART.
JCINTEXAS:No, didn't fly the 104-wanted to. During my time, this was the hot ticket (and still is, NOTHING is faster than the 104 to 100,000+ ft. NOTHING.). The Air Force had other plans for me and I wound up in Bombers , then Transports. Had a lot of fun, too.
JCINTEXAS:No, didn't fly the 104-wanted to. During my time, this was the hot ticket (and still is, NOTHING is faster than the 104 to 100,000+ ft. NOTHING.). The Air Force had other plans for me and I wound up in Bombers , then Transports. Had a lot of fun, too.
03-31-2008 | 10:29 PM
#17
Senior Member
RE: gluing hinges
Starfighter quote:
"No, didn't fly the 104-wanted to.
__________________________________________________ _
Thank you for your service in the Air Force.
I wanted to go Air Force, but that didn't work out.
As a TV news reporter, I did a story on Air Force Pilot Training. I went to class with a new group of student pilots...went through the Physiological Testing Unit, (altitude chamber P.R.I.C.E. check etc) The greatest part was I got a one-hour ride in a T-38 Talon and did 1.2 Mach. Then I got an invitation from the C.O. of the 331st Fighter Interceptor Squadron to take a flight in an F-104G. The plane had to go to California for an "I.R.A.N." and I was on a countdown to go into the Navy. The Starfighter returned a few days after I left for the Navy and so I missed it. What a thrill it would have been. If Lockheed had put titanium on the leading edges and on the intakes...the "missile with a man in it" could have gone even faster.
Best Regards
JC
"No, didn't fly the 104-wanted to.
__________________________________________________ _
Thank you for your service in the Air Force.
I wanted to go Air Force, but that didn't work out.
As a TV news reporter, I did a story on Air Force Pilot Training. I went to class with a new group of student pilots...went through the Physiological Testing Unit, (altitude chamber P.R.I.C.E. check etc) The greatest part was I got a one-hour ride in a T-38 Talon and did 1.2 Mach. Then I got an invitation from the C.O. of the 331st Fighter Interceptor Squadron to take a flight in an F-104G. The plane had to go to California for an "I.R.A.N." and I was on a countdown to go into the Navy. The Starfighter returned a few days after I left for the Navy and so I missed it. What a thrill it would have been. If Lockheed had put titanium on the leading edges and on the intakes...the "missile with a man in it" could have gone even faster.
Best Regards
JC
04-01-2008 | 07:22 AM
#18
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From: Scarsdale,
NY
RE: gluing hinges
How do you prepare an ARF's CA hinge slots (U Can Do 46) to accept flat nylon hinges (dubro)? any difference between preparing the slots in the wing and the aileron itself? IS there any beveling needed here, and what does it do?
I'm afraid that if I just chop out the wood it'll be uneven from slot to slot -- maybe one hinge winds up a little high at one slot and a little low at another slot. Do you take one slice off the top of the slot and then one slice off the bottom to keep it even? those aileron's are usually not too thick.
Sorry on making a fuss about what is simple to many of you -- I just don't get this, maybe it should be asked in the BEginner's forum. (I can't use CA so this is a gating item for me in assembling ARFs -- up to now I've just asked friends to CA the CA hinges for me, but I want to do the hinging myself from now on.)
I'm afraid that if I just chop out the wood it'll be uneven from slot to slot -- maybe one hinge winds up a little high at one slot and a little low at another slot. Do you take one slice off the top of the slot and then one slice off the bottom to keep it even? those aileron's are usually not too thick.
Sorry on making a fuss about what is simple to many of you -- I just don't get this, maybe it should be asked in the BEginner's forum. (I can't use CA so this is a gating item for me in assembling ARFs -- up to now I've just asked friends to CA the CA hinges for me, but I want to do the hinging myself from now on.)
04-01-2008 | 07:20 PM
#19
Senior Member
RE: gluing hinges
ORIGINAL: fheppenheimer
How do you prepare an ARF's CA hinge slots (U Can Do 46) to accept flat nylon hinges (dubro)? any difference between preparing the slots in the wing and the aileron itself? IS there any beveling needed here, and what does it do?
I'm afraid that if I just chop out the wood it'll be uneven from slot to slot -- maybe one hinge winds up a little high at one slot and a little low at another slot. Do you take one slice off the top of the slot and then one slice off the bottom to keep it even? those aileron's are usually not too thick.
Sorry on making a fuss about what is simple to many of you -- I just don't get this, maybe it should be asked in the BEginner's forum. (I can't use CA so this is a gating item for me in assembling ARFs -- up to now I've just asked friends to CA the CA hinges for me, but I want to do the hinging myself from now on.)
How do you prepare an ARF's CA hinge slots (U Can Do 46) to accept flat nylon hinges (dubro)? any difference between preparing the slots in the wing and the aileron itself? IS there any beveling needed here, and what does it do?
I'm afraid that if I just chop out the wood it'll be uneven from slot to slot -- maybe one hinge winds up a little high at one slot and a little low at another slot. Do you take one slice off the top of the slot and then one slice off the bottom to keep it even? those aileron's are usually not too thick.
Sorry on making a fuss about what is simple to many of you -- I just don't get this, maybe it should be asked in the BEginner's forum. (I can't use CA so this is a gating item for me in assembling ARFs -- up to now I've just asked friends to CA the CA hinges for me, but I want to do the hinging myself from now on.)
When the slots are too tight, I use a piece of hacksaw blade. I broke a used one into a number of pieces about 1.5" long and sandwiched each in couple of pieces of wood. Basically made a crude "knife" that has a serrated blade.
When the slots are off center or canted (that happens about as often as being off center), the hacksaw blade can be pressured to straighten or to widen just one side. You really don't need to widen too much.
Cutting slots yourself is just like any woodcraft. You need to learn the technique. I use a pointed xacto and stab a line of short cuts to keep the slot straight and centered. Then you can join each cut to the next, and the knife won't have a chance to follow wood grain that might angle the cut otherwise.
Are you asking about beveling the leading edge of the surface? You do that so the aileron or elevator or rudder can be hinged so tightly to the TE of the matching wing/stab/fin that there won't be a gap, but the surface LE's edges don't bump into anything.
04-01-2008 | 10:37 PM
#20
Senior Member
RE: gluing hinges
Quote: "How do you prepare an ARF's CA hinge slots (U Can Do 46) to accept flat nylon hinges (dubro)? "
__________________________________________________ _____
I did this last night on an ARF I'm building.
The CA hinge slots are already cut, so I just put a 1/16th drillbit in my Dremel tool and gently use it as a router to enlarge the slots for the thicker pinned hinges. Works for me.
Regards
JC
__________________________________________________ _____
I did this last night on an ARF I'm building.
The CA hinge slots are already cut, so I just put a 1/16th drillbit in my Dremel tool and gently use it as a router to enlarge the slots for the thicker pinned hinges. Works for me.
Regards
JC
