...apart from the C word?

A dead stick in my opinion.

I maidened my Pulse XT 60 this morning and I, in my infinite wisdom decided to invert my Saito 1.00. This engine has ran flawless almost inverted in my Hellcat so I figured why not?

I tested it out on the ground and it ran well, no real problems at all. NOt so with the differing fuel tank levels between the 2 planes it seems. After about 5 minutes or so flying time the engine cut upwind! (I'm about 100ft max. So, I have to bring her in with a tail wind but this is my first ever dead stick (been flying since April 08) but this plane is a beauty and she came in with a better touch down than I normally manage with power

Anyway, tuned her a bit and took her up again, everything fine but after maybe 8-10 minutes (less aggressive throttle usage) I go inverted and the engine starts to cough and doesn't pick up, I turn her round trying to get downwind this time, but she dies, and I'm low and slow. No way I'm getting back to the field, I just try to put her into the corn field as gently as I can.

When I get to her, (I had to search using the servo sound as the corn is quite high.) She's almost sitting on the top of the corn, not a scratch, I'm just happy she's in one piece.

So, I guess I have to turn the engine back the right (wrong) way up and have this big assed engine out the top. I cut the cowling but I'd rather buy a new cowling than a new Pulse

I have to say, this ARTF is probably the nicest plane I've ever flown (and I'm new but I've flown quite a few).

What I don't get is why not cut out straight away, was it waiting until the fuel gets to a certain level in the tank? By that I mean the pressure change brought on the cut out of the engine.


Anyway, that's my maiden, always a stressful time for me but with a dead stick on top even more so

First check to see if you fuel pick-up line came off inside the tank. Don't change the engine, they run fine upside down, that's not your problem.

The worst thing on a maiden flight is reversed ailerons, that's the big killer.

Reversed ailerons

So true but then that would cause the C word so...

Hmm, regarding the engine then. When I landed the first time I checked it and it started no problems, fuel pick up was fine etc.

I actually convinced myself it's simply because it's inverted and the carb is a bit to far below the tank.

Now, you're making me have second thoughts

I had a inverted OS 91 in a Ace Cloud Dancer for 5 years maybe 300 flights, I adjusted the needle valve 3 times, never had the engine die in the air.

Yaa, thanks for the help Soarrich, appreciate the input mate.

It does sound strange when I think about it. As I say, this engine has ran faultless in my Hellcat for a multitude of flights and never missed a beat, it was only a few degrees off full inverted then.

Could it simply be just down to the carb being a bit lower than the fuel tank in this plane than the previous model do you think?

REversed ailerons is the easiest disaster to avoid, simply ALWAYS check the direction of movement before you release the plane for taxi. I check every control surface movement as part of my everytime routine.

Deadsticks are something that should be practised as part of flight training. I've had my fair share, but (almost) always managed to get the plane back on the deck in one piece. It doesn't matter how far you have to walk to collect your plane after a deadstick. I've seen guys total their plane by trying to make it back to the strip after the engine has quit. I'm silently screaming "Just put it down! Don't worry about the walk!"

That could be it, it sounds like it might be a rich low end. When you roll inverted any fuel that puddles in the top of the crankcase or in the valve cover may be forced into the air/fuel mix, I don't know. See if you can recreate it on the ground, if you can see if it happens with the plug lit also.

I agree with soarrich. It sounds like it is puddling with fuel. Is the problem only when inverted? If the carb is lower than the tank it will have the tenancy to syphon out through the carb. Im not to familiar with Saito engines but if you have a fuel tank pressure line try this.... Try recreate what happens in the air on the ground, whether it be upright or inverted, and then remove the pressure line. That will aid in stopping the syphoning effect, by reducing fuel tank pressure so its not forcing it to the carb. If this solves your problem then its due to the tank in relation to carb height.

Make sure your tank is properly sealed. Pull a line off, hold the other and blow. You may have an air leak.

Well, definitely no air leak. Tank is hermetically sealed

whodeany99, If I pull the line off the muffler the engine cuts pretty much straight away.

I think I'm just going to have to go and change the engine round.

It's a real shame as I think it totally spoils the look of what is a very pretty airplane. Least you can't notice it when she's flying and that's the main thing, to keep her in the air

Axel40,

Since you have the engine now fully inverted, have you leaned the low end out at all ? Once inverted they tend to load up a lot and die if you don't lean the low end out.

The worst thing that can happen on a maiden flight is to have it go well and when you are taxiing back to the flight station a van full of drunken 20 year olds suddenly drives across the runway, lost from the lake park area a few hundred yards away, and destroys the wing of the model......argh. They were zigging and zagging and I was not able to get out of their way....

That happened to my brand new Ace Super Pacer nearly 30 years ago and I remember that sound of the tire crunching balsa like it was yesterday.....sigh

They sped away and no one was able to get to a car in time to stop them......it was a hit and run!

a couple of years later, fences and barricades were installed so that could never happen again, anywhere in the park.

My brother maidened his King Cobra, then shut the car trunk on the wing, but I think you have that one beat.

You win, that is the worst!

[/quote]
My brother maidened his King Cobra, then shut the car trunk on the wing, but I think you have that one beat.
[/quote]


LoL i closed the garge door on a plane of mine a while back, it crushed a section of the wing....i toned down the sensitivity so if it even happens again it will do less damage

That very nice looking ARF comes aprt in flight. After looking at the aftermath you discover that the little chinese kid who built your plan was chained to his building table and told to use no more than 1oz of glue to build 10 planes. After that you decide to go and get a kit use glue, good hardware, and tough covering. The kit you built spirals out of control due to a broken servo arm. In the end both will crash one will not be due to a lack of quality of workman ship.

I think one of the suckiest things to happen, would be an overlooked elevator linkage. With no elevator, yer' screwed!

NorfolkSouthern

oh no it can get much worse.......
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fmm-f-76MnI

If you left the tank in the stock location, it's no wonder you had problems.

The Pulse was designed for an upright engine with the tank set high in the fuselage. Normally, in a non-pumped and regulated engine, the center line of the tank needs to be in line with to a quarter inch lower than the fuel jet in the carb. This is hole where the fuel comes out in the center of the rotating barrel.

When you invert the engine, the tank is too high. This results in the engine running rich until you adjust the needle. Fuel can also siphon into the carb when you are on the ground. Once you go inverted, the tank becomes too low and your engine should lean out.

Bottom line, you need to adjust the tank height lower to allow you to keep the engine inverted or return the engine to its designed orientation.

I'm with Ed,


Install upright and enjoy, or re engineer the tank.


Bob

Cowls on a Saito ???

worst I had was 3rd flight on my 102" Laser, I was on a deadstick approach when I got midaired by a pylon flying jerk that thought he had right of way. He took the whole tail clean of and she nosed down into the only rock that was aound [:@] This was on a nbormal sunday morning, no comp on. to make matters worse I got a writ on the following tues morning, he was taking me to court for the replacement of his plane [sm=eek.gif] Needless to say, after showing the judge the amaa and club rule books he lost, and he was also ordered to pay me damages and my costs, but how do you put a price on a scratchbuilt plane?

Agreed.

I run a couple of those same engines upside down on planes where I have done nothing to the tank height as well... they work flawlessly even with tank height offsets of greater than 1 - 1.5".

Tank height affects siphoning, which is primarily a problem on the ground, not in the air... it's overstated as a cause of in flight problems all too often here.
If this were as problematic as stated, we would all be experiencing deadsticks whenever our planes go nose up ( ooops greater than 1" difference when this happens! ).


Usually things like this are fuel line/tank/clunk related...

On my maidens, once I have the plane up, I keep them flying upright with only light banking on the turns, gaining altitude as much as possible.

Only after a few minutes of otherwise good flight do I roll the plane while fairly high, to check for potential problems with the engine/fuel delivery.

I tend to keep the planes high but close in, to facilitate getting them down in the event of a deadstick.

I have seen things go terribly wrong on maiden before the plane even got started ! I will never forget seeing some new guy with a kit built trainer, he was filling up the glow fuel in his tank, his friend was helping him.. I wasn't really paying attention, I turned back a minute or two later, still messing with fuel, couple more minutes still messing with fuel.. thats when I noticed the fuel running out
THE BACK OF THE FUSELAGE ! It had the elevator pushrod straight out the back, and he had filled the fuselage up so far that it had came out the back of a trike gear trainer.....If I remember correctly the reciever and half the servos were soaked ...

Actually the worse thing that can happen on a maiden is that you get to the field, fill the tank, fire up the engine.

Taxi out to the runway, check the wind...very little if any, good so you point the airplane down the runway and start advancing the throttle. It starts to torgue a little on the runway so you add a little rudder to hold it straight, that's it, looking good.

You now have enough speed so you pull back on the elevator as she lifts off the runway straight as an arrow, MAN!!! she looks great!!! Very little trim needed so far.

Alright, time to turn into the flight pattern at the field, so you move the aileron/elevator stick to enter the pattern. She stays strsight,
SO, you move the Ail/Elev stick a little more. OH SH*&T!!! move a little more!!! now your about to bend the TX stick tying to put in enough ail/elev to turn your beautiful airplane into the pattern.

Mother FU%^$% Son of a B&^% CU%# FU#@$ing piece os SH&%$. You now realize that your Brand new Saito 100, Your barand new set of digital high torque servos reciver and airplane is flying straight as an arrow at 4/5 throttle and will be out-of-sight in about 5 seconds!!! You will never see this airplane again, you know it will come down, you pray it comes down in some field somewhere and doesn't hurt anyone. You pack up, go home and start watching the news, and hopefully you hear nothing about a rogue airplane causing a traffic accedent or hurting anyone.

I would MUCH rather bury an airplane at the field than have one fly away. And yes this did happen to me. It was the first airplane I flew after my trainer. I was young, dumb, and cocky. I thoght I knew it all, after all I could fly my trainer pretty good. I have been flying my trainer all by myself for about a month. Don't even try to tell me anything, I am a veteran now, I know what I'm doing.

That was many years ago. I now fly giant scale aircraft, and when I think of that day a long time ago, I can't help but to think how nieve I was, how reckless, how cocky. Shortly after that incident I hooked up with a more experience (older) flyer at the club where I fly. He has spent his time with me teaching me the proper and safest way to buld and fly rc model airplanes. He is getting pretty old now, and I don't know how many more years he will be able to fly. But before he bows out I want him to know how important his instruction was to me and to others.

A flyaway is the worst thing that can happen on a maiden!!! Don't forget the range check.