Why is it? Most of them tell you that the hardware is included. With most arf kits, we alway's are running the the LHS to replace the junk that just doesn't get it. Spending as much as $30, $40 to make it right. Why can't these manufacturers just cut the crap, supply us with e good stuff and charge us the extra, or sell the kit at a lower price without the junk. Seems to me that they could save themselves and we some $ by not supplying the idividually rapped packages of 15 or more screw packages, hardware, that we all just pitch. Arf's have come along way, but have still have some room for improvement. Some of us are still turned off by the arf and some are seriously looking at them, if they get it right, they may attract more. Common, you can do better than this.

It's all commercial profit and convenience factor.

Many of the newcomers to the hobby will look toward an ARF since they don't want to learn how or spend the time building the plane. If they put a sticker on the box that says "all hardware included" they will sell more than the boxes that say "no hardware included."

I'd find it more attractive to purchase a kit without any hardware. Give me the option to select my own quality hardware ! After I finished my Cermark Pitts, I threw away all of the included METRIC hardware. It wasn't even good metric, just real low grade soft stuff.

You can't be expected to keep a plane flying reliably with crap like that .

I agree with the above posts about either include quality hardware, or just leave it out completely. However, lets face the facts here guys: They are not really trying to market most of these ARF's to guys like us who KNOW the difference between crap hardware, and good stuff. The biggest potential market that they are after is the "instant gratification" gang, who, would pass over a kit with no hardware in favor of one with "Complete" (AKA, JUNK) hardware. By marketing a so called "complete" ARF, they increase their chance of making a sale, and by using junk hardware, they increase their profits!

Just my thoughts...

Lee

Guys, as a small mfg. I have to agree with the above posts. As a modeler, I know how frustrating it is to get a project and throw the junk hdw. away only to spend more $$ replacing it.

The big guys only care about profit, thats the bottom line. Most of this stuff is made overseas and they could care less.

Since my line is of the less modeled projects and hade made by myself I can't touch the prices of the big guys ARF's but I can at least put in the good brand name harware.

I have had this conversation with a number of manufactures and its far more involved than it seems. First most of the models are assembled and packaged overseas, this means to use american hardware it would have to be shipped to china or, every box would have to be opened and resealed here. In either case the cost for the hardware would be extreem. Also the cost of the hardware to the manufacture is probably under $2.00 and would not have much effect on the kit price if left out. And according to one MAJOR manufacture the fact that the hardware does not meet MY PERSONAL STANDARDS does not mean the plane can't be assembled and flown using it, and there are thousands of them out there doing just that. I was also told that while they make the effort to supply the best kit possable I shouldn't compare a $200 ARF to a $750 dollar because the differance is in the quality of the components, thats not to say the $200 dollar plane is junk its just the $750 dollar plane SHOULD be better.

Speaking as a long-time modeller and a one-night-a-week employee of the LHS -- its a lose-lose-lose situation..... include no hardware and a certain percentage of folks complain becase there's no hardware. Include the crappy stuff and folks complain because it's junk. Include Dubro, Sullivan, etc hardware and a certain percentage of folks complain because of either the cost or the fact that they prefer a different brand of hardware...... so what's a manufacturer to do?

Personally, my order of preference (for either kit or ARF) is 1.) No hardware, 2.) Name-brand hardware, 3.) "Wastebasket filler" hardware.

Guess there's no way to make everybody happy (so what else is new?!).

BJH