Larger Revolver
06-23-2012, 06:13 PM
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RE: Larger Revolver
Wow, this is a new idea. I like it. Im not going to do it on my next one, but its something Im interested in knowing how it works.
As for you last question, to give you an idea of where my weight comes from......my DLE20 powered revolver weighed in at 9.6 pounds. I use hitec 645MGs all around and a hitec 225bb for the throttle. I use one LiFe 3200 battery (way over kill since i only use about 200mah per flight) with the IBEC from Tech-aero which eliminates the second ign battery (which the acronym stands for...haha), and two aluminum plates to reinforce the landing gear. Oh, and I do not fly with the pilot figure.
My second Revolver weighed in at 10.4 pounds with a complete smoke system which used a sullivan skywriter pump. I used an 8oz fuel tank and the 14oz tank that is included with the Revolver as my smoke oil tank. Which is is not the point here, but I thought Id mention it because the plane still had unlimited vertical with the DLE20 swinging a 17x6 Xoar. It was a noticeably slower climb, but it did keep going....
Anyway, I would like to know how she'd fly with the RCGF 15cc. I have heard that they are not great motors. But they do advertise 2.4hp vs. the DLE20's 2.5hp. I would have to believe that even if the claimed HP is correct, the extra 5cc has got to have substantially more torque. Especially since were talking about small motors.
But I could see being able to build a Revolver that's quite a bit lighter than my 9.6lbs. Lets get rid of the metal plates for the landing gear and get a one piece dubro gear. Use one 2000mah+ nihm with the IBEC, and save 60 grams with the 15cc engine over 20cc....and maybe save just a few oz if you were to use servos that weren't overkill like I did. I wouldn't skimp on the rudder servo though. That needs some torque.
Give her a shot man!
Oh yeah, and ground clearance... you should have a lot with a 15x8 prop on the DLE20.....
Jeremy
As for you last question, to give you an idea of where my weight comes from......my DLE20 powered revolver weighed in at 9.6 pounds. I use hitec 645MGs all around and a hitec 225bb for the throttle. I use one LiFe 3200 battery (way over kill since i only use about 200mah per flight) with the IBEC from Tech-aero which eliminates the second ign battery (which the acronym stands for...haha), and two aluminum plates to reinforce the landing gear. Oh, and I do not fly with the pilot figure.
My second Revolver weighed in at 10.4 pounds with a complete smoke system which used a sullivan skywriter pump. I used an 8oz fuel tank and the 14oz tank that is included with the Revolver as my smoke oil tank. Which is is not the point here, but I thought Id mention it because the plane still had unlimited vertical with the DLE20 swinging a 17x6 Xoar. It was a noticeably slower climb, but it did keep going....
Anyway, I would like to know how she'd fly with the RCGF 15cc. I have heard that they are not great motors. But they do advertise 2.4hp vs. the DLE20's 2.5hp. I would have to believe that even if the claimed HP is correct, the extra 5cc has got to have substantially more torque. Especially since were talking about small motors.
But I could see being able to build a Revolver that's quite a bit lighter than my 9.6lbs. Lets get rid of the metal plates for the landing gear and get a one piece dubro gear. Use one 2000mah+ nihm with the IBEC, and save 60 grams with the 15cc engine over 20cc....and maybe save just a few oz if you were to use servos that weren't overkill like I did. I wouldn't skimp on the rudder servo though. That needs some torque.
Give her a shot man!
Oh yeah, and ground clearance... you should have a lot with a 15x8 prop on the DLE20.....
Jeremy
06-23-2012, 09:57 PM
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RE: Larger Revolver
Hi All
I have quietly been lurking on this thread for a while. I am close to having the Revolver ready to fly. I have done most of the mods that you guys have suggested. In hind sight, I should have taken pictures and posted them as I started the assembly. I have done the following:
1. 1/4" ply (1/2 inch by 2 inch) epoxied into tail as a base for attaching a Sullivan tail wheel assembly.
2. 1/8" ply base epoxied into wing servo boxes to keep them from being pulled out.
3. Rear mounted servos for elevators, using 4-40 push rods
4. Pull pull system installed for rudder.
5. I used a combination of the supplied hinges along with Robart pinned hinges in each elevator half and rudder. Each elevator is set up
with cloth hinge, Robart hinge, cloth hinge, Robart hinge and last cloth hinge. Same thing with the rudder. The very top has a cloth hinge
then a Robart hinge, then another cloth hinge, etc.
6. Elevator and rudder hinge gaps are close but I added clear Monokote to make them gapless.
7. Engine box has been re-enforced with tri stock and fiberglass cloth. \
8. I removed the covering on the bottom of the fuselage where the landing gear plate is. I then used fiberglass cloth and epoxy over the
exposed plate. The bottom is then recovered with Monokote.
9. Engine is a DLE 20. The ignition is on one side of the engine box attached with plastic ties. An Eneloop 2000 mAh battery is attached on
the opposite side of the engine box.
10. The throttle servo is attached on the bottom of the engine box about 4 inches behind the engine head.
11. I used the supplied engine mount that comes with the ARF. I was able to elongate the holes (dremmel tool) on the mount so that the
engine would fit using the existing blind nuts that were factory installed. I did have to cut out the cross sections of the mount.
12. I'm using the landing gear that came with they model but sandwiching the two halves with two aluminum plates.
I hope all of this makes sense. Except for the throttle servo mount and using a combination of hinges, everything else was suggested by
you guys at one time or another.
I should be ready to maiden it in few days. I've still got to mount switches and install the receiver and battery. Battery will be an A123
2300 mAh and probably strapped down close to the rudder servo. That will depend on how the CG works out.
I did a lot of mods and probably added more weight to the model than I would like, but it should be quite strong. We will see.
Mike
I have quietly been lurking on this thread for a while. I am close to having the Revolver ready to fly. I have done most of the mods that you guys have suggested. In hind sight, I should have taken pictures and posted them as I started the assembly. I have done the following:
1. 1/4" ply (1/2 inch by 2 inch) epoxied into tail as a base for attaching a Sullivan tail wheel assembly.
2. 1/8" ply base epoxied into wing servo boxes to keep them from being pulled out.
3. Rear mounted servos for elevators, using 4-40 push rods
4. Pull pull system installed for rudder.
5. I used a combination of the supplied hinges along with Robart pinned hinges in each elevator half and rudder. Each elevator is set up
with cloth hinge, Robart hinge, cloth hinge, Robart hinge and last cloth hinge. Same thing with the rudder. The very top has a cloth hinge
then a Robart hinge, then another cloth hinge, etc.
6. Elevator and rudder hinge gaps are close but I added clear Monokote to make them gapless.
7. Engine box has been re-enforced with tri stock and fiberglass cloth. \
8. I removed the covering on the bottom of the fuselage where the landing gear plate is. I then used fiberglass cloth and epoxy over the
exposed plate. The bottom is then recovered with Monokote.
9. Engine is a DLE 20. The ignition is on one side of the engine box attached with plastic ties. An Eneloop 2000 mAh battery is attached on
the opposite side of the engine box.
10. The throttle servo is attached on the bottom of the engine box about 4 inches behind the engine head.
11. I used the supplied engine mount that comes with the ARF. I was able to elongate the holes (dremmel tool) on the mount so that the
engine would fit using the existing blind nuts that were factory installed. I did have to cut out the cross sections of the mount.
12. I'm using the landing gear that came with they model but sandwiching the two halves with two aluminum plates.
I hope all of this makes sense. Except for the throttle servo mount and using a combination of hinges, everything else was suggested by
you guys at one time or another.
I should be ready to maiden it in few days. I've still got to mount switches and install the receiver and battery. Battery will be an A123
2300 mAh and probably strapped down close to the rudder servo. That will depend on how the CG works out.
I did a lot of mods and probably added more weight to the model than I would like, but it should be quite strong. We will see.
Mike
06-23-2012, 10:19 PM
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RE: Larger Revolver
There is another engine that you guys might consider in place of the DLE 20. Check out the Mintor 22. It is made in Italy I think. If I had not already installed the DLE 20 in mine I would likely give this engine a try. Good reports on it so far. It can be ordered from either TopDawg Aviation or Chief Aviation RC. The price is under $250.00 shipped from either vendor. I think I'm going to get one for myself. It is a beam mount just like the DLE 20.
Mike
Mike
06-23-2012, 10:34 PM
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RE: Larger Revolver
Hey ahicks, do you have the rcgf 15cc already, or were you planning on getting one? If i remember correctly they are sleeved like a glow motor for some reason. I can go on and on about how much I love the DLE20 (and I have before). But I love the simplicity of the motor.
As ya'll may remember, I recently bought a goldberg 67" edge 540 that has an Eflite 110. I was excited to try my first electric. The plane came with two batteries so i can only fly one flight per outting unless i wait to wait to charge them with my truck battery. Anyway, on my third flight with it (today) I had a dead stick landing because I ran outta juice in only 4 minutes! I think I ran out of power early because I was doing inverted flat spins with a lot of power as well and trying to do some hovering. Okay, again, Im off the subject. Im going to throw my DLE20 in the Edge because I haven't even started on my Revolver rebuild. So Im considering trying out the XYZ 20cc for the next Rev. Ive only heard about them a couple times. But if valley view rc carries them, they must be decent. They look extremely similar to the DLE and they are a little cheaper.
Anyone have any info on the XYZ?
Jeremy
As ya'll may remember, I recently bought a goldberg 67" edge 540 that has an Eflite 110. I was excited to try my first electric. The plane came with two batteries so i can only fly one flight per outting unless i wait to wait to charge them with my truck battery. Anyway, on my third flight with it (today) I had a dead stick landing because I ran outta juice in only 4 minutes! I think I ran out of power early because I was doing inverted flat spins with a lot of power as well and trying to do some hovering. Okay, again, Im off the subject. Im going to throw my DLE20 in the Edge because I haven't even started on my Revolver rebuild. So Im considering trying out the XYZ 20cc for the next Rev. Ive only heard about them a couple times. But if valley view rc carries them, they must be decent. They look extremely similar to the DLE and they are a little cheaper.
Anyone have any info on the XYZ?
Jeremy
06-23-2012, 11:01 PM
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RE: Larger Revolver
Hey fellas. I just thought Id let everyone know that Valleyview RC has a sale on the DLE20 for $245 with free shipping! I wish I could jump on this one. Hopefully the sale is around for a while....
www.valleyviewrc.com/estore/dle-20cc-gas-engine.html
EDIT....I forgot to mention that they give a free prop with an engine purchase. That's another $15 savings...
www.valleyviewrc.com/estore/dle-20cc-gas-engine.html
EDIT....I forgot to mention that they give a free prop with an engine purchase. That's another $15 savings...
06-24-2012, 12:51 PM
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RE: Larger Revolver
Al:
My AUW, dry, is 9#11oz, with DLE20, Futaba 9452 mg servos all around (6 total), and a 3600 mAh LiFe battery for both radio/servos and ignition via an IBE, so i have one of the heavier setups i think.
I swing a 17x6" Xoar prop, and fly off grass; pilot has to do his job to keep the plane from nosing forward. I have lost some prop tips that way; but no problem if i do my job correctly. 16x8 works well also.
This plane flys well with a variety of engines, including apparently OS 0.75 2s, which is way less power than a 15cc gas would give, so from a performance standpoint, the 155cc gas would have less than a DLE20, but probably more than acceptable thrust. You might have to adjust components for CG with a smaller engine, but as has been noted before in this thread, the recommended CG flies pretty nose heavy, and can be safely moved aft by at least 1/2", and maybe 3/4", so a lighter engine would not necessarily mean that you need (unproductive) nose weight.
Indiomike: I have been loooking at the Mintor 22 as well; said to be a drop in replacement for the DLE20, including mounting holes; it is a pretty engine, but i don't know about reliability (neither positive nor negative - just no information). If you fly one, let us know about its performance.
It sounds as though you have done all the necessary things, and many of the desirable things. What is your AUW dry? Post pics, and go fly!
My AUW, dry, is 9#11oz, with DLE20, Futaba 9452 mg servos all around (6 total), and a 3600 mAh LiFe battery for both radio/servos and ignition via an IBE, so i have one of the heavier setups i think.
I swing a 17x6" Xoar prop, and fly off grass; pilot has to do his job to keep the plane from nosing forward. I have lost some prop tips that way; but no problem if i do my job correctly. 16x8 works well also.
This plane flys well with a variety of engines, including apparently OS 0.75 2s, which is way less power than a 15cc gas would give, so from a performance standpoint, the 155cc gas would have less than a DLE20, but probably more than acceptable thrust. You might have to adjust components for CG with a smaller engine, but as has been noted before in this thread, the recommended CG flies pretty nose heavy, and can be safely moved aft by at least 1/2", and maybe 3/4", so a lighter engine would not necessarily mean that you need (unproductive) nose weight.
Indiomike: I have been loooking at the Mintor 22 as well; said to be a drop in replacement for the DLE20, including mounting holes; it is a pretty engine, but i don't know about reliability (neither positive nor negative - just no information). If you fly one, let us know about its performance.
It sounds as though you have done all the necessary things, and many of the desirable things. What is your AUW dry? Post pics, and go fly!
06-25-2012, 09:23 AM
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RE: Larger Revolver
Agreed. Im sure it will fly it fine and be a lot of fun. It just wont rip it through the air like a 20cc engine will.
A club member has a NIB Rev that has been sitting for a long time. His wife got it for him for his birthday or something. He said that he is going to start building it after he saw mine....
He has a OS 75ax that he's going to try in it. Im sure it'll be okay. Just not much authority. Id actually like to see a Revolver flown with a .60 size engine since that's the size plane it is. Its got to be horribly under powered. Like my GP .46 sized Extra. A .46ax barely kept it in the sky....
Jeremy
A club member has a NIB Rev that has been sitting for a long time. His wife got it for him for his birthday or something. He said that he is going to start building it after he saw mine....
He has a OS 75ax that he's going to try in it. Im sure it'll be okay. Just not much authority. Id actually like to see a Revolver flown with a .60 size engine since that's the size plane it is. Its got to be horribly under powered. Like my GP .46 sized Extra. A .46ax barely kept it in the sky....
Jeremy
06-25-2012, 09:32 AM
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RE: Larger Revolver
mach2, my first Revolver had a Magnum 91 four stroke in it which is less power than the OS 75 AX. It flew very well with that Magnum and I would bet the OS 75 will give it good power and that the Revolver will fly just fine.
Bruce
Bruce
06-25-2012, 09:52 AM
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RE: Larger Revolver
Good to know. He asked me if the 75ax he had available would be good and I told him yes. Since i had seen them fly with a 91 4s. I just dont have any experience with any glow motors aside from what ive used. .42 - .61 sizes.
My 57" wingspan P51 from World Models is pretty stinkin' quick with the Thunder Tiger 61 pro and a 12x7 prop.
My 57" wingspan P51 from World Models is pretty stinkin' quick with the Thunder Tiger 61 pro and a 12x7 prop.
06-25-2012, 10:16 AM
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RE: Larger Revolver
Alright guys, Ive got another scenario. Im going to put my DLE20 in my goldberg Edge 540. Its got a Eflite Power 110. Anyone have any experience with electrics? Because im thinking about putting the Power 110 in my Revolver. Should I get more flight time since the revolver has less drag than the Egde? I think Id be flying the Rev at a higher throttle setting though...
If the Rimfire 80 moves the Rev well, The Power 110 should be pretty darn fast right???
Jeremy
EDIT....disregard this post. Im not even gonna mess with it. Id have to spend more money than I want just in batteries to get worth while flying times. And flights. Im just gonna get another DLE20. I like doing the gas and go.....and the exhaust smell and sound.
Jeremy
If the Rimfire 80 moves the Rev well, The Power 110 should be pretty darn fast right???
Jeremy
EDIT....disregard this post. Im not even gonna mess with it. Id have to spend more money than I want just in batteries to get worth while flying times. And flights. Im just gonna get another DLE20. I like doing the gas and go.....and the exhaust smell and sound.
Jeremy
06-25-2012, 04:02 PM
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RE: Larger Revolver
I have to admit I've been pretty impressed with the power and speed of some of the electrics I've seen at the field. But it just AIN"T the SAME...
06-25-2012, 04:50 PM
#5214
RE: Larger Revolver
ORIGINAL: lopflyers
Electric?? What is that? Refrigerators are electric no cool planes[:-]
Electric?? What is that? Refrigerators are electric no cool planes[:-]
06-25-2012, 05:09 PM
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RE: Larger Revolver
ORIGINAL: wjcalhoun
Jeremy
Do you want to be booted out of the R70 brotherhood? ELECTRIC?[:@]
C'mon now - we are gas / nitro guys.
J/K of course
Jeremy
Do you want to be booted out of the R70 brotherhood? ELECTRIC?[:@]
C'mon now - we are gas / nitro guys.
J/K of course
The cons off the top of my head of electrics, Poor flight duration, no cool sound, expensive batteries, the hassle of charging lots of batteries to get enough flights to make it worth while, and a big con is the fact that the batteries are fairly fragile and have been known to vent and catch fire. If that happens, the plane is going to be burnt up very quickly. There is also the danger of fire in the car or worse yet, the house. I know its rare if you're careful, but I know of a club memeber who had his batteries in his plane, in his house and he accidentally cut the Lipo and his plane caught fire in his home! My wife would put the kibosh on my hobby real quick it that happened at my house!
The pros are, no mess on the plane, no tuning (which isnt a big deal since Im fairly good at tuning the gasser, and they need very little tuning once set) very quick spool up and great throttle (power, haha) response, and not having to take fuel to the field, which is offset by having to tote a bunch of batteries... as well as keeping them organized as to not put a discharged battery back in the plane....
Anyway, Im going to jump on the DLE20 sale at valley view...and get me a free xoar prop too
06-25-2012, 05:19 PM
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RE: Larger Revolver
ORIGINAL: lopflyers
Electric?? What is that? Refrigerators are electric no cool planes[:-]
Electric?? What is that? Refrigerators are electric no cool planes[:-]
This is the guy who got me wanting a Revovler. This plane is now powered with the DLE...
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2DsqCMYTVOQ[/youtube]
Very cool big Raven. Check out the awesome pullout of the torque roll at minute 2:48. And that's a big plane! Id like to know how much power that thing sucks up on this 5 minute 3D flight...
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mNffRgk-Nb4[/youtube]
Speedster little revolver....
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NL_ZbFv0xFE[/youtube]
06-25-2012, 05:27 PM
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RE: Larger Revolver
mach - that pilot is knockoffs (aka, Matt) - at my field (the Pologrounds) in Bethpage, LI. I went to fly there yesterday morning but they had a polo match scheduled! That short, smooth grass is the perfect runway.
knockoffs is the guy that got me to put the DLE 20 into the Rev 70, too.
knockoffs is the guy that got me to put the DLE 20 into the Rev 70, too.
06-25-2012, 05:53 PM
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RE: Larger Revolver
Yeah, that's right. I knew someone on this thread knew knockoffs. He visits RCU from time to time doesn't he? He got me hooked on the Rev, and the DLE20, and he inspired me to put smoke on my second rev. As Ive said a while back, I dont think Im gonna put the smoke on the next one.It was just too much of a pain in the butt. I was able to get a full 5 minutes of smoke which is a lot more than anyone else that I had seen with the Revolver. It was awesome looking, but very difficult to cram everything in the narrow fuse. Who knows though. I might feel randy at the end of the build and put the system in again. It was very impressive looking...
I was able to fit a 8oz fuel tank under the wing tube, and used the 14oz gas tank from the Rev for the smoke oil tank. Located it in the stock location.
Jeremy
I was able to fit a 8oz fuel tank under the wing tube, and used the 14oz gas tank from the Rev for the smoke oil tank. Located it in the stock location.
Jeremy
06-25-2012, 06:01 PM
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RE: Larger Revolver
I've flown gas, electric, and nitro. Each has their pros and cons. Flight time is the biggest drawback of electrics. You can fly longer with gas/nitro and get back in the air quicker. A plane that is designed for electrics is MUCH lighter than the same sized gas/nitro. This is really important if you are doing any 3D flying. I like gas, electic, or nitro for different reasons.
06-25-2012, 08:43 PM
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RE: Larger Revolver
orthobird - I have an OS 120 4s in mine, and it's an excellent power plant for this plane. It looks like the Saito 125 has higher HP at a lower RPM, so I'd say it should be a very good match for the Rev 70.
06-26-2012, 02:24 AM
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RE: Larger Revolver
ORIGINAL: ahicks
Guys, looking for a "go to" kind of plane, and thinking I may have to get one of these. If it had a symmetrical airfoil I would probably have bought one a long time ago, but I keep hearing you guys say they fly great, so we'll see if I can deal with the one it's got...
There is no doubt I'll go gas, what I'm wondering is if anyone has tried the 15cc RCGF/RCG engine in one of these yet. I've done a couple searches (never very lucky with them here though) and searched back a few pages, see nothing.
Those of you flying 20's, what are your thoughts? Would you trade some of your power for a few ounces less (5.6) nose weight? Familiar with the 20's, a lot of time on them, have been running a 17" prop. What kind of prop clearance does that leave me for the grass runways I fly from? Would the ability to run something a little smaller be an asset?
Or am I wasting my time even considering the 15? I like vertical performance as much as the next guy, but honestly, turning it into a dot on command gets old. Anything over 100 feet is likely fine?
What are your all up 20cc weights?
Who's got the best deal on them? I saw that Tower had them on sale a while back, probably should have jumped on one then, but was messing with another plane that didn't work out for this purpose like I thought it might.
Thanks much, -Al
Guys, looking for a "go to" kind of plane, and thinking I may have to get one of these. If it had a symmetrical airfoil I would probably have bought one a long time ago, but I keep hearing you guys say they fly great, so we'll see if I can deal with the one it's got...
There is no doubt I'll go gas, what I'm wondering is if anyone has tried the 15cc RCGF/RCG engine in one of these yet. I've done a couple searches (never very lucky with them here though) and searched back a few pages, see nothing.
Those of you flying 20's, what are your thoughts? Would you trade some of your power for a few ounces less (5.6) nose weight? Familiar with the 20's, a lot of time on them, have been running a 17" prop. What kind of prop clearance does that leave me for the grass runways I fly from? Would the ability to run something a little smaller be an asset?
Or am I wasting my time even considering the 15? I like vertical performance as much as the next guy, but honestly, turning it into a dot on command gets old. Anything over 100 feet is likely fine?
What are your all up 20cc weights?
Who's got the best deal on them? I saw that Tower had them on sale a while back, probably should have jumped on one then, but was messing with another plane that didn't work out for this purpose like I thought it might.
Thanks much, -Al
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aObKdGAHNJ4&feature=related[/youtube]
Jeremy
I will say that it flew very nicely
06-26-2012, 04:39 AM
#5225
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RE: Larger Revolver
Thanks Jeremy! The install looks good, and it will certainly fly with that engine! I wouldn't be looking for the all out performance that the 20 might have using a 15, but worried more if I might be disappointed because it's too docile....
Rather than face that issue, currently thinking I'll take the safe route and go with a 20cc. That's why God put throttles on them. I'm not sure I'll ever be good enough to see/feel the 5.5 oz. difference the lighter weight of the 15 might give it.
I do know that when I went from Quadra 42 power on the Giant Sportster, to a Syssa 30, the plane dropped 2 lbs, and that meant a WORLD of difference. It went from a great flying 16.5 lb bird, to an AWESOME flying 14.5 lb bird.... Smaller prop (20" vs. 18"), so I dropped some power, but the lighter plane didn't need as much. I guess that's where I'm coming from here....
Rather than face that issue, currently thinking I'll take the safe route and go with a 20cc. That's why God put throttles on them. I'm not sure I'll ever be good enough to see/feel the 5.5 oz. difference the lighter weight of the 15 might give it.
I do know that when I went from Quadra 42 power on the Giant Sportster, to a Syssa 30, the plane dropped 2 lbs, and that meant a WORLD of difference. It went from a great flying 16.5 lb bird, to an AWESOME flying 14.5 lb bird.... Smaller prop (20" vs. 18"), so I dropped some power, but the lighter plane didn't need as much. I guess that's where I'm coming from here....