RE: AVOID Nitroplanes!!!!!!!!!
 

Like I said, Nitroplanes deliberately SOLD planes knowing they were stolen. Nice way to make business. The "stolen" planes were only available through NP.

RE: AVOID Nitroplanes!!!!!!!!!
 

QQ didn't go out of business, he went to work for Horizon Hobby designing planes.

RE: AVOID Nitroplanes!!!!!!!!!
 

You really need to get your facts correct before making accusations like that even if it's only for your own protection.


Alledging or stating things like "deliberately" etc. is a bit dangerous especially since you are SOOOO misinformed.


Flymodels / Triones sold - A - plane based upon that design.

Nitro, Ak and other vendors imported those planes and sold them.

I read that long thread some time ago and it was amusing to see that even when others attempted to corrected the original poster(s) they wouldn't listen.

RE: AVOID Nitroplanes!!!!!!!!!
 

You must be assuming I don't speak to Quique. Regardless of what you perceive is happening on an internet forum, reality can be quite different. There is a world out there beyond what you read on forums.

RE: AVOID Nitroplanes!!!!!!!!!
 

This is why rcu is not about the hobby but it more about misinformation . Opjose is 100% correct and please stop with the "nitro your beloved airplane company" see unlike your perception of me I am a business man , no emotion . I will spend my hard earned money on products that provide me with value in my definition of value .
This thread is silly , there is so much misinformation starting with the drama on CMP and Nitro and copied cat brands ect .
IN essence if you buy from Nitro you are sinner for practicing your American earned right of freedom of choice , personally sir I dont care of you dont support them or anyone that buys from them .
I buy from them because in my brief experience they have served me well in price and value as well as Hobby King . Hobby Partz (owned by Nitro ) is even better then Hobby King , the servace and tracking is on par with tower at 1/3 the price .
This is a hobby and we all have choices , we dont need to bash anyone on personal drama that is not fact based , and this entire thread is laced with drama and total misinformation is all based on emotion and not facts .
Again if you want to add value to the RC community you dont start a thread with Avoid nitro , you start a thread and truly attempt to educate the rc community on the potential of a brand knockoff , then what happens is you gain friends who say "thanks for the heads up " and "what is the differance btween the two " can you explane please , that is what rc post are supposed to be , not winey drama bull .

I started a post on retracts in another thread , its over 20 pages on comparing eletric retracts on the brands vs the non brands , I did not start the post by say "Advoid Horison"
I wanted to do a real comparison and so did everyone in the hobby .
There is a reason that every brand has a knockoff and if the knockoff is done in a legal manner then more power to the freedom of choice , so why you keep allowing your emotions into your post , your not doing DA any justice when you should have stated clear but FEATURES -THAT = REAL BENIFITS OF A REAL DZ ENGINE .
Perhaps you dont know what a feature or benifit is , but they are associated with any product and marketing programs that wants to show true differenciation

RE: AVOID Nitroplanes!!!!!!!!!
 

...and if the knock offs are not done in a legal manner? Such as what we are talking about.

RE: AVOID Nitroplanes!!!!!!!!!
 

You seem to be assuming that you're the only one who lives in a "real world".

You are also equating the fact you've spoken to QuiQue with your assertions being correct, no matter how erroneous they actually are.

Guess what, I've spoken to Quique too on several occasions! He's a nice guy. Talked to him over breakfast.

None of that changes the fact that Nitroplanes is NOT the manufacturer of the one plane based upon Quique's design. Flymodels/Triones is the Chinese company that copied his design. Flymodels/Triones sells to various importers and vendors.

Flymodels/Triones also copied the BVM King cat too and made a smaller glow version of it that Modelbrau now revamps and sells for turbine use.

Get your fact straight and be careful with accusations. What you INFER is not necessarily reality.

RE: AVOID Nitroplanes!!!!!!!!!
 

That's why each company hires lawyers ( not people in forums ).... and each company must under law act to protect their own copyright interests.

If they fail to do so, they can loose rights over their own brands and designs.

RE: AVOID Nitroplanes!!!!!!!!!
 

You keep going in circles thinking that I don't know NP is only a retailer. I know that. THEY DID NOT MAKE THE PLANE.
Quique had a lawyer. It would have cost him way too much money to pursue a Chinese company, and deemed it to be uncontested. Nothing made him file a suite

RE: AVOID Nitroplanes!!!!!!!!!
 

I think you mean "uncontestable".

You are right that going after Triones/Flymodels would have been too difficult and expensive.

But an injunction against infinging imports may have worked without a lot of expense since it only applies in the U.S.

That is what a lot of U.S. vendors do when their designs are pilfered and knockoffs are sold by Chinese firms.

That also gives the originator a good basis to issue a "cease and desist" orders very effective against importers and vendors of those products.

Too bad Quique didn't persue that.

He did have the last laugh though with his newer association with the "big boy" U.S. retailers.

RE: AVOID Nitroplanes!!!!!!!!!
 

All I get out of this drama is to stay away from Nitroplanes and Flymodels. All it taught me was these two companies have no ethics. Until I hear from the companies in question via ad or some-such explaining the "drama", I'll take my $'s elsewhere.

RE: AVOID Nitroplanes!!!!!!!!!
 

Here we go again, confusing one with the other then equating ethics for both.

I guess Skorpion, Venom and other big name "knockoffs", clones and copies should be in the same boat then along with all the U.S. vendors that sell those knockoffs.

That's going to severely restrict your source of RC products since examples can be found at almost every U.S. vendor and hobby shop.

I'll keep my choices open and let the lawyers battle it out.

RE: AVOID Nitroplanes!!!!!!!!!
 

That is why I love America, we all can have an opinion my friend.

RE: AVOID Nitroplanes!!!!!!!!!
 

Yup... though I believe that is true everywhere... you just can't always voice opinions safely in certain other countries.

The problem is when someone misrepresents things ( not talking about you ) which leads to the growth of further inflammatory vilification that is unwarranted.

Then there is that wonderfully florid saying about what opinions are like... :D

RE: AVOID Nitroplanes!!!!!!!!!
 

RE: AVOID Nitroplanes!!!!!!!!!
 

Wize choice! The people who defend CMP/Raidentech/Nitroplanes/Flyboymodels (what ever they like to call themselves) so much here at RCUand RCG, if you noticed- they have personal dealings with them if you haven't figured that out yet. Either they are Dealers or Product Testers pushing out a product for them, then coming in here telling everyone that they are good or fantastic product and that we are the ones mis-informing people.


Just look at some of the profiles and look what models they have in their hangers if you doubt me. One guy has nothing but CMP/Raidentech/Nitroplanes/Flyboymodels doing most of the defending in here. Another one that's defending Nitroplanes has just removed them from his hanger just recently.

Beware, I suspect they are CMP/Raidentech/Nitroplanes/Flyboymodels Lobbyists more so than anything else. :D



Pete

RE: AVOID Nitroplanes!!!!!!!!!
 

It doesn't appear that Quique Somenzini is out of bussiness.
ALLFLIGHT.co.uk is a European Distributor for QUIQUE AIRCRAFT CO. planes. http://www.alebproducts.com/products.php?cat=4
The 69 in. QQ YAK-54 is priced at $458.96 ?! Good Grief!
It sure was a great bargain at $199 from Nitro Planes.

RE: AVOID Nitroplanes!!!!!!!!!
 

Pete lol, I have 7 CMP planes and I am 6 figure VP in a food consumable company , nothing to do with RC ( I only wish I was paid by them or any of them lol ).
I am also a consultant , again consumer goods all edible , so I dont know if you are reffering to me , by I do have CMP planes in my hanger and Top Flight, Pica , FMS , Starmax,
willshobby , Blackhorse ect , I dont know so much speculation on who we work for when we simply happen to like a company .
Why is everything mystery ? I have no problem saying 1) I like CMP planes 2) I have 7 of them 3) I will never buy another one because now ESM that use to be called KMP and cost $200 more thru Andrew is now priced too close to CMP , so if I buy an ARF larger fuel bird it will be ESM . OH well , there goes my CMP /Nitro planes paycheck , but hey now i am on ESM paycheck so all is good :) .
Look I have been on RCU for over 10 years , love the site for info , learning , and really getting handle on who does what , how to do it and the distribution side of the business .
Pete you and I go back and I consider you an on-line friend , but I also know that you had extreme frustration with your CMP/Flymodels FW190 (dont remember )if you had the CMP or the knockoff , but you told me and others that you threw your model out because the contro horn screws were not long enought to get thru the tail .
Ok , these and other minor issues are not only a problem of the supplier but they are a problem of not being ready to handle a plane that is not an ARF .
Half the problems described in early threads on CMP , Fly MOdels , WIllshobby , and all the other names are a result of inexperinece in the builder/purchaser and the supplier , but with experience they are easily overcome and you can have a great model .That again is why we are on rcu in the first place , help , learn and listen and you can overcome an rc problem .
In reality I dont know what nitro did with DA , but I do know that 90 of the warbirds we love , fly and built are not official legally registered copies with approval from the master airplane company such as the P40 , Hellcat , P51 , P39 , how many times have you seen "a registered trade make on a model , I know there is some but often .Because it requires a licensed contract , royality fee and performance criteria all of the things that add cost and most modelers would not pay .
So is that ok ? do we draw the line in certain areas and not others ?
So when we can copy a P51 , did we pay royality ? see the insanity lol , oh but that is ok ?
let be real , as stated earlier if I had a beef with nitro , you would know it , I bought from them and on more the one occoasion with great servace .
As far as there old name "raidentech well they sucked , worse internet rc company in the world , but they changed and have cleaned up there servace and performance .
If there is a leagal brand trademark issues , well as stated that is not my issue as a consumer .

RE: AVOID Nitroplanes!!!!!!!!!
 

LDM,

That seems to be a fairly standard procedure around here, I too have been accused of getting kickbacks for simply saying I use something, or mine works fine, or whatever.

It boils down to my own experience, I don't care what someone else experiences with a company or product. I make my own decisions based solely on my own judgement and experience. Some people don't like that, they feel their opinions should be highly valued by others, who don't know them from Adam.

It is not my job or responsibility to police the industry or any company within it.

RE: AVOID Nitroplanes!!!!!!!!!
 

Pete, I have commented in threads about Nitro Planes aircraft. Yes I have said good things about them. I have recommended some of the planes too. I have been pleased with what I received.

So when you give a blanket statement saying those the defend Nitro Planes are either dealers or testers is not correct. You know nothing about me, yet you lump me in a mass of people who YOU think are paid to post good things about NP.

If you have a problem with specific people, post names and do not put me in that group unless you have proof I am paid by them.


It is no real concern to me about who sells the products I want. I will try a store once, if I am happy I will go back. If there is a problem, it is how it is handle that concerns me. If it handled poorly, I will spend my money some other place. I buy from a lot of shop in my home town and all over the net.


Buzz.

RE: AVOID Nitroplanes!!!!!!!!!
 

I talked to world models some years ago and they told me that the 40 size ultimate I bought from nitro planes was a stolen design.
lets face it most of the chinese are thieves and copy cats.

RE: AVOID Nitroplanes!!!!!!!!!
 

Yep!

RE: AVOID Nitroplanes!!!!!!!!!
 

see that is a bad statement , when you menthion someones nationally withe behavior its benieth you and i know you dont mean in that fashion.
It best said that imports period !! have been knockoffs , they knock off ecah other lol , CMP was knocked off by Fly models and willshobby knock them all off lol .
Just like Hobby King is knocking off FMS !!
I can tell you why we will say "Chinese" because the factorys that are most cabable of knocking off products are in China !! .
Half the peopel that visit China for potential imports deal with a broker/agent that shows them items pawned off as there own , all they do is contract with a factory that makes the products lol . If you ever had the pleasure of doing this trip you will be taken to "showrooms" ya , ok a showroom is a broker that will have a nice set up of "his" ya "His" factory products , when in reality he may not even have a contract with the factory that is making the planes :) .
That is why you have to get to the actual factory !! I was on one consulting project to track illegal licened goods ,I went to a trade show and in three separate booths I witnessed the company that I worked for products , presented as product made by the company in the booth lol .
Common practice is to copy licensed goods and sell them without a contract or licensed agreement . The good news is that with the new global economy and the power of the net , it difficult to operate ane hide as a 'unlicensed copy cat company"
For the record everyone will copy and that is wht in the USA we have trademark and patient laws but any good attourney will tell you that your patient better have some feature or benifit that makes in intrinsic and inherant of your specific product , or it will not stand up in court .
I cant even imagine how any model can have any design patient when their differances in design are not monumental by any standards .

RE: AVOID Nitroplanes!!!!!!!!!
 

I am currently typing this post on a laptop computer with the name of a very reputable Japanese manufacturer on it, its quality is superb.  Can you guess where it is made?  China.

RE: AVOID Nitroplanes!!!!!!!!!
 

Hobbico is the parent company of the rest.

CMP is NOT Nitro. Was not hard to find this: http://cmpairplane.com/contact.html You will note that the contacts for the company are NOT connected with Nitro. CMP sells low end ARF but if you want to work it is decent value for the money. Their latest model an Bf-109 is actually pretty good.

No idea why Nitro is playing games. Maybe just for the free advertising. But they are playing games since Desert Aircraft has asked them to remove the ad.

This is just dumb. Nitro seems to be decent to their customers most of the time and they have plenty of ads out. So why be a jerk about using the term DA.

RE: AVOID Nitroplanes!!!!!!!!!
 

You've outdone yourself Oberst....


Of COURSE anyone that defends them has "personal dealings" with them... what sillyness.

My own "personal dealings" are that I have a BUNCH of their planes because I like what I purchased for the price.

Is something like this too much to wrap your head around?

I hope EVERYONE figures out that we have "personal dealings"... they are called "purchases". Duh.

RE: AVOID Nitroplanes!!!!!!!!!
 

Yes, thank you for getting that right... Others still don't get it.

Again, you are speculating.

You haven't asked how to get the ad removed or changed?

If you are TRUELY interested, it can be done.

One letter of the alphabet on ONE ad in their entire web site, and it's a big deal to point that you call them "jerks"?

A mountain out of a mole-hill...

You are right in that the advertizing should not read that, but sheez.

RE: AVOID Nitroplanes!!!!!!!!!
 

Let me also add my personal dealing with them.In 2010 I turned 50 :) . My wife said , "you have all these fuel planes sitting around , bashing ect , what if you try a turn key eletric plane , ready to go , no work" . I agreed , so $229 , She ordered an FMS 55mm epo P40 , under Nitros brand called Airfield . It comes with a 2.4 system complete , battery , charger , and all servos .
Well while waiting for my plane I am reading reviews on the plane and i am not happy with what I am reading , (remember dont even have mine yet ) .
I emial Tony from Nitro and I hate to make this public for those that do want to take advantage of a company .
So I tell him , wow I am getting this P40 , retracts are subject to problem , radio is cheap ect .
Tony -sight unseen says , what can I do they are first release , I will make you a deal on another plane -remember I did not take deliver yet !!!!.
And make good he did , and guess what !! Just like so much bull that we read on line so much is all Urban Legand , all drama no fact and I bought into it hook line and sinker .
I used my spectrum 2.4 only to learn in anorther plane that they 2.4 cheapy system that came with the plane was flawless and worked glitch free and bound easier then my spectrum system .
The plane flew great and started an entire new interesting in eflight for me !!!
Again , I read threads , belived in what I read and I was totally wrong in following the drama .Also new team at Nitro was very responsive

RE: AVOID Nitroplanes!!!!!!!!!
 

Some people as usual miss the point. I don't care if Nitro some times gets it right. Even if they get many things right.

Why advertise an engine as a DA when it is not. Yes, you might get some people to buy the engine buy why? If you have a good engine as one person believes then advertise that.

Desert Aircraft has done a bunch of things to help this hobby. Where is Nitro's support. What events has Nitro sponsored? If you want to support Nitro then start your own thread and post about something, anything, that Nitro has done to support this hobby. It is utterly wrong for Nitro to try to ride on the coat tail of a company that has earned their great reputation.

Nitro's arrogance in this is dumb. If it ain't a DA then don't lie about it on your website.

RE: AVOID Nitroplanes!!!!!!!!!
 

Craig , while i agree in theory , its really starting to sound like a winey long song and let me explane.
Private label in the world we live in was aprox 15 to 19% of the sales in its respective categories . Now its reaching 22% with a goal of 24 to 28 % .Every single company starts out with the benchmark as the target and in this case the bench mark is DA .
Many brands in mainstream retail look the same , work the same or almost work the same at a lower cost .
You can get Tylenal with its multi million dollar ad program or its generic brand knock off , sure QC may me less on the generic but this is a practice that is done everyday in every major retailer with great names and great reputations.
Sam Walton built Walmart on USA made knock off under the Sams Choice label (this was before he went to China -for the record) .
Store brands under 90% of the marketing are designed to lure you into thinking there as good , better or they are the name brand . Why do you think private label evolved from black and white labels to "Controled brands" , it was one more step to sell you .
As a fact NItro planes imports the FMS line of ero warbirds under Airfield , I can buy direct in China under FMS , same exact plane .
I was buying DLE engines at 40% less direct then now having to buy thru Tower , same exact engine , I know this is not what you talking about but my overall point is name brands , look a likes ect are marketed all day long around you 365 days a year with the point of luring you into trying something cheaper that at time will deliver more or equal to the benchmark brand , its just business and guess what , they did not invent that in China , the concept was invented in the USA

RE: AVOID Nitroplanes!!!!!!!!!
 

LDM, agree we do pay much more for branding (middlemen). Ads are expensive but for the companies they pay off big time. A prime example is Spectrum. That brand has a great many more problems than most. Maybe more than the generic Chinese brands. While the change to the hoping format may reduce the complete loss of control problem they still have a multitude of troubles. RX chips that have come loose, at least two types of RX that gave you full down elevator occasionally, antennas coming off, one RX that was sold its use was disallowed but no replacement for 5 months or so, transmitters with all types of problems, and more.

Yet with all of that and more, you will see people jump all over me for just stating the above facts. (All of this can be found on their website.) They will jump because they completely consumed the advertising and branding. When some of these problems surfaced we had people at our club crying out that it could not be so because the advertising told them it could not happen. Believe me I will hear all about it from the fanatics. But the facts are there. I was one of the first to go with Spectrum. After loosing 6 planes in 250 flights, I dumped it for Futaba. So far with thousands of flights I have not had one incident with radio control. I.E. no lost aircraft due to the radio.

Next I will buy XtremeLink's 16 channel radio when it comes out. I believe it might be more capable than my rather expensive 12Z for 1/6 of the price. Incredible value, 16 channels, telemetry, voice, open programming, templates of other radios, for only $250. The difference here is no advertising, not Japanese, actually made in the US for that price.

What the retailer does for us is give us someone to complain to and fix errors in a timely manner. IE be responsible for any troubles. So the customer feels more secure. It took Hobby City a long time before people would trust them and now they do very well. I have made some direct buys from Hong Kong and China with good luck so far. But China is rather like the wild west in retail you can almost never be sure and a lose of one order can easily make up for the price difference of a US retailer. Ya pays your money and you takes your chances.

Really crazy that some people would stand up for Nitro with them advertising a DLE as a DA. Being that I was an officer in the AF for 25 years I take great umbrage with deceit and lies. I have bought aircraft from Nitro previously but this willful act of dishonesty should keep me away.

RE: AVOID Nitroplanes!!!!!!!!!
 

I just Googled your system you talk about. For others...click on link below. DATE 2006-2007....a few years back!!http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/js/f.../omg_smile.gif

http://www.wattflyer.com/forums/showthread.php?t=10210

RE: AVOID Nitroplanes!!!!!!!!!
 

Craig great post , I know what you mean with spectrum , when I first got mine my cheapy free 2.4 that came with my FMS EPO P40 would bind easier then my spectrum lol .
I wont say I am not a brand guy , but I am not anal about brands , I use the brand to measure what I want to see if the cheapy brand and many time I am more then rewarded lol .
My medal gear $9.00 servos from HK work just the same as my $25 HiTec servos in the same size and torque so you never know

RE: AVOID Nitroplanes!!!!!!!!!
 

CaptinJohn - Use this link for discussion on Xtremelink http://www.rcgroups.com/xtreme-power-systems-483/ He has changed the entire system over to full time hopping and eliminated any problems that showed up earlier. Products are at: http://www.xtremepowersystems.net/ It had growing pains but is now a robust and cool system. The info on the radio is a looong read. Wish he would post a summary of the features.

LDM, it is still hard for me to use some generic stuff. I tore apart some of the cheaper servos and they were lacking some things. Things like leads were not tied down, case was thin and allowed gear misalignment, etc. Friend lost one to the leads moving and breaking. They have been improving so I should take another look. BTW on servos for bigger aircraft I highly recommend going with titanium gears. My Aeroworks 37% has JR 8611s (bought used). All the JR/Spectrum lovers at our field tell everyone how good they are. They state that they center better than Hitec, etc. Well, after only 20 flights they don't center worth a damn because the metal gears start to wear and get sloppy. After 100 flights you must put in a new gear set because they are way too sloppy. My friend with the Hitec 7955s (believe that is right) has over 500 flights and his servos are as tight as the day he bought them. If you look at the cost he would have had to pay $35 for each JR servo each 100 flights ($175 per servo) to keep even with the Hitec 7955s. Been looking at the SAVOX titianiums. A little less torque but for a lower price with titanium. Perfect for most of my planes. Before I can say how good they are I need to get those 500 flights! :D. Still it looks like this might be the way to go where you need metal gears.

Point on DA is that even though some of the Chinese stuff is pretty good, you cannot get DA quality/service anywhere else. No one in the TOC or Shootout who wants to win uses anything but a DA. (A little wrong I believe there was one or two 3Ws there).

Come on Nitro. You still have the lie of an ad.