Raining Airplanes!!!!!
 

I was at the field yesterday, watching a club member fly his Creek Hobbies Sukhoi, when suddenly I heard a loud POW-- like the sound of two 1/4 scale airplanes having a head on-- but only ONE plane was flying. The sky started raining airplane parts and all the guys were yelling "HEADS UP!!" and running for cover. The firewall, cowl and engine came hurdling down to the runway. The wing and assorted pieces were coming down like confetti. The fuselage, less the cowl and engine, was hovering about 100 feet in the air, traveling in a small circle with everyone underneath it running for their lives. No one knew where it was headed next. Finally it crashed with a loud THUNK-- 15 feet from the flyer's truck, right along the flight line. Fortunately, no one was hurt, but very easily could have been. On examination, the firewall, cowl and engine pulled away from the fuselage, due to the SHODDY construction of the ARF. Has anyone else had any of these Creek Hobbies 1/4 Scale planes fall apart or disintegrate in the air, or was this just a fluke??

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First question would be what size engine was being used and what size engine is recomended by the manufacture.

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Do Creek Hobbies put there planes together with hot clue like VMar does? I hate it when they use that crap!

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What you mean is the front and the heaviest bit fell off just like this one but only my luck had it happen while getting it on the ground.

You gotta be lucky sometime. This was a glue failure and the plane has less than 20 flights on it. First the box failed and I fixed that. This failure has been subsequently repaired and strengthened but I will fit a SAITO 180 this time and use my Brison 50cc in a frame built to take it.

Cause!!!. I would say over powered for sure but then again the hot glue in these things is bad news. Trouble is you cannot get into them ( Pitts especially without cutting them up considerably.) The glue failure was very obvious and I think it was not helped with high ambient temperatures we have here. There was no penetration into the wood and the bond was purely surface and no more.

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Same things also happens to SIG Extra 300XS ARF's. As you can see I also got bit real bad when the firewall tore loose on the ground.

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OUCH!!!! HOLY CRAP?!?!?

Did it hurt?

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Uh! Yes! Hurt like nine kinds of hell. 100+ stitches later and about three months of healing and I'm back to abusing myself. Shoot, I've already had several crashes since then.

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Man, that's scary! If you get bit because of something you did, that's one thing, but shoddy construction in an arf causing the injury is unacceptable!

Hope everything healed o.k.

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Exactly when did the firewall 'come loose'? What were you doing when it did? Any idea of the RPM's at the time?

Jerry

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Had flown the plane a couple of times that day, refueled, and started engine, friend was holding the airplane while I ran up the engine. 20X8 APC prop turning 8000 which I verified with a tach, IN FRONT OF THE ENGINE, firewall came loose, engine and firewall flew into my hand and the rest is history. Moral of this story? Don't get in front of the dang engine EVER! Tach from behind.

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I have always reinforced my firewalls on any arf I've owned. Its definately a pain in the ass but I have never had a kato. I agree with all you guys about these manufacturers doing bad work, it is not acceptable. So far Hangar 9 have been the best afs for me.

Nathan

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I have the Creek Hobbies Katana 1.20 with the 1.60 OS. I haven't flown it yet but I did some modifications to get the servos in the center and out of the tail. Balances great now and as soon as the temp gets above freezing, I'm going out to try it. While I was inside the plane, I looked at everything and was surprized. Every joint had triangle stock glued in on both sides. It looks very secure.

I have always tach'ed from behind the prop. Even the .40 size props scare the he!! out of me!!!
[X(]
Hope your hands are better Jim.

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i got my finger whapped at slightly above idle on my os46fx with an 11x4 apc sport prop. My finger hit the tip of the blade and made the engine come to a dead stop. I swear I almost blacked out from the pain because it was cold outside. I probably shoulda gotten stitches but i hate hospitals. I started to get tunnel vision from the pain. Is the tip of your thumb gone, or i just cant make out whats what of your hand. That look real bad. I always do my tach check from behnd the engine anyways, but that will just reinforce me always doing it from behind....ouchy....

sean

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there is no reason to be in front of an engine after it is started.....

i see a lot of people do what you did ( screw with the engine from the front)


eventually the odds are going to catch up to you....if your in back of the engine once started, you greatly decrease the chances of an accident !!

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I own the Hobbico Extra 300 60. Its a great plane but about the 5th or 6th landing the gear plate came clear out of it on a not so rough landing. When I went to inspect everything, I noticed the firewall had come loose from the crash that resulted from the gear ripping out. Now, I've put in a plane or two in, in my day and never had the firewall come loose from such a minor shock. It makes a guy wonder if safety has ever been a factor in the construction of some of these planes. Anyway, with a few hours of work and some serious hardware, the plane has seen many more flights and I've never had another problem. The thing I got out of this, is that you should never trust an ARF on landing gear or firewalls. This thread only strenghens by hypothesis.

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This thread should be compulsory reading for anyone who dabbles with this hobby. I whacked my finger a year or so back when trying to flick start a 91 FS. I vowed from that day on never to get my fingers near but there has been times when I got in front of the prop. Heck that was just a backfire and it hurt like hell. After reading this forum I promise myself never to mess from the front end again. NEVER!!!

Hope your hand gets back into shape but mostly thanks for sharing the accident with us. WHOW!!!

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JimRoss, some 20 years ago, I saw a .45 engine with one of those plastic props, literally cut off the middle finger off a fellow R/C`ers hand. We found the finger about 30 feet from the accident spot, but the man lost it because the Doc`s could not put it back on time. His hand got hurt in many places also. Since them I have never, ever, ever used anything but wood props. I have gotten hit by wood ones many times, and all they have done to me is a bruce and really heavy pain, but barely no cuts. I do not know how many hundreds of times I have tried to convince friends, beginners, or just anybody I`ve seen, but have never been able to make anybody change their mind about plastic/fiber props. ( There are other benefits to wood props, they make you a better pilot, you may know why ). I feel bad about your accident just sitting here maybe 3000 miles away. A serious question, as I always jump into advise talk when possible, could I show your picture to other people ? Hope you get better soon.

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My thumb was amputated at the first knuckle. Partly by the prop and partly by the plastic surgeon. At any rate it's one knuckle shorter than the other one. No big deal now, I can do anything that I could before the accident except pick up really small things. Buttoning my shirt has become a comedy of errors too.
Anyone that wants to has my permission to show any of my pics to anyone they like. If it promotes a safer situation for others then this is a good thing.

Motocross,
Wood props suck! JMHO! I have tried them and the fiber Master Airscrews and they just don't perform like the plastic APC's. I get better rpm's and thrust out of the APC's. It's just that now I don't hand start anything, I use a Hobbico 180 Starter, and as soon as it's running at idle I get the lleH behind it.

Thanks to everyone for their kind words and sympathy.

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Did Horrace give you heck over this?

Jerry

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Not really, actually he was very kind and sympathetic. He waited until I was healed up and then got in a few digs. All in good fun though. No one has been harder on me than I have. It was about the stupidest thing I have done in LOTS OF YEARS. The people at my club are really fantastic people. All are willing to help or just lend moral support when it's needed and mostly all of them keep track of how each other is doing. I've learned a lot of this by just keeping my mouth shut and ears open. I'm glad I joined this club instead of the others around the area.

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JimRoss, I have learned a lesson today. For years I ran away from the great APC`s but I knew they are better in most ways. I am putting together a Funtana w/.91Saito, to get into the hover mode, and I know APC is the way to go, your positive attitude towards your accident makes me realize that we can deal with danger if we learn to handle it. Believe me I even had nightmares about that memory that I told you, I will not forget your advise and courage to "stay on the race". THANKS for sharing your experience.

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Ah Jeez Louise that's bad!!!![X(] It almost makes me want to take up basket weaving...........................well I said almost!;) Thanks for sharing that and I know I will catch it for this statement but that's why I build my planes, sorry.

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"Don't get in front of the dang engine EVER! Tach from behind."

Jim,

I will remember that...I promess! Very sorry about the accident.
Glad you're ok now. But damn what a "live and learn" lesson!!

:([X(][:@]:D
Serge

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Oh no Artie, not basket weaving! And what, GIVE UP KNITTING?
What would the blue haired girls down at the retirement home do without YOU, their illustrious leader?

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Dam, thanks for sharing, Id like to laminate that picture and put it up on the clubs run up stand. Thats the kind of stuff that makes you think. Sure been hearing alot more ARF firewall failures lately.

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Dang!
You should sue sig for at least $100000!!!!
It is there fault that they didn't built the fuselage right!

-Nik

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<<...the stupidest thing I've ever done...>>

Why? Sounds to me like you were doing the same thing most all of us do; tweaking/checking your engine before flying.

However, is that model rated for a gasser? I dunno, just asking.


.

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Here's another thumb one to add to this thread to remind everyone to be careful;

One of our club members, very-very-experienced, was helping another club member tune an engine last summer. He was behind the prop where he should be, but while tuning the needle, his hand touched the hot engine. Well, the instinctive "jerk-your-hand-away-from-the-heat" happened, and his thumb went into the prop (APC I think, but not sure). He was "lucky" and lost only a chunk of meat from the side of his thumb (from the edge of the fingernail at about 45 degree angle down to the center of his thumbprint).

Moral of the story is' be careful even if your behind the prop.

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To all you guys who replied, I thank you for your kind words and I appreciate your thoughts.
I only hope no one else goes through this, it sucks. If anyone wants to copy the picture for others to see, go ahead with my blessing. Hope it keeps someone else from getting smacked.
Anyhow, I'm fine, flying again, and crashing as usual. Just got my Stinger 120 finished and can hardly wait for a little warmer weather to maiden it. Edge 540 with OS 160 is sitting in the truck just waiting, and the Extra 300 needs a belly job. Knocked the landing gear off. Looking at a Ultra Stik 120 also. Got the perfect motor for it. Also gathering materials for a BIG SPAD.
Dang, I need more radios.

Later all.

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SERGE:
NICEavatar

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quote: "SERGE:
NICEavatar "

Y[sm=spinnyeyes.gif]eah, anyway we (err, I) can get a blown up copy of it? [sm=spinnyeyes.gif]
[sm=spinnyeyes.gif]
Jerry

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I'd like to have it for my desktop background but my heart might not stand it.

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APC props are razor blades! I nearly lost a thumb to one that flew off a Saito .80 a few years ago. Now I start my engine with an electric starter while wearing a heavy welding glove, which comes up nearly to my elbow. I may look stupid doing it, but my fingers are worth it! I cringe every time I see someone standing in front or to the side of a spinning prop.

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HA he got it from the PLProd web site there is a buch there.

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Ok..I guess I may as well throw my hand in too:D...oops. I too stuck my hand in a prop about 5 years ago. It was a Super Tiger .90 and an APouchC prop, it was a stupid mistake and I knew better but as humans we are allowed some stupid moves...right?? Well it cut the hell out of 3 fingers with the index digit tip hanging down and blood everywhere. I got to the ER at 5 pm and left at 1 am. and had to be in the hospital the next morning for a tendon repair and a rod about 1/16" in dia. was drilled thru the tip of the finger all the way to the first knuckle closest to my hand. On the piece of rod sticking out of the end of my finger the Dr. made a loop and it stayed that way for 6 wks. The idea was to attach the severed tindon that went across the knuckle. ...OK I am getting to the end...I promise...the time came for the pin to be removed and I thought I would get some happy juice and I would not be awake for the procedure but was I ever wrong...the doc latched onto the wire with some Stanley pliers and started twisting and I am starting to turn this odd hue of green but to my surprise it did not hurt..uum..that is until he got the wire past my knuckle closest to the tip of the finger and ...OOHH MYYY GODDDDD...Yes Thelma...IT HURT!!!!!!!!!!!
I was very popular when I first got to the ER because someone had told all the docs and nurses that a man stuck his hand into an airplane prop and thier minds could only imagine some for slob in the ER with his hand missing and sporting a stub...once I told them what happened I was not so popular any more.

P.S. As soon as the Dr. pulled the rod out of my finger the tip just drooped down and stayed that way for ever.

Moral of the story is as follows..."GET BEHIND THE PROP TO RUN UP"

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Welcome to the club Boss.

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One thing I forgot to mention is that the AMA that I have been a member of for 30 years picked up any out of pocket money that was related to the injury. I was not aware that they did that but one of the club cd's told me about it. It wasn't much but it sure did help...I think it was something like $150.00.

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Jim Thanks for sharing that with us as a Newbie I will allways remember now to stand behind the prop on run up and have more respect for the prop thats too bad about your hand. It really make you realize that these things are not toys. Just think how many accidents you may have prevented by shareing your story Thanks

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I will throw my prop accident story in the mix too. When I first started I had a 20 size trainer. I started the plane from the front and a little to the left of the engine, and as I was getting up to go around behind the plane I bumped the wing with my knee. This caused the plane to yaw right. the running engine hit my elbow and the prop made four cuts before the engine quit. I swole up about an inch above normal and bled like crazy. I should have gotten stitches but I didn't, I still have the scars to remind me to be careful.

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I fly electric planes as well as IC and I I never thought much about the prop giving me a hard time because after all, it's a small motor and makes little noise so how bad can it be...right??
Well the thing that I learned on electrics is that it does not stop when the blade hits something...it just slows down and goes on until the juice is gone or it is shut off. I never got bit very bad but a friend got hurt real bad on an Astro 40/geared and I was shocked to see the damage ...it never stopped like a gas engine does...it just keeps chopping you up.