Arf prices?
 

Hi,
just wanted to raise my concerns regarding a trend I have seen. The reactor bipe I bought for $299 was 349 for a short time & now is $369. Aeroworks 60 size extra was $299 & now is 319. even their new bipe ultimate 30cc is 549 after it was introduced at $499 in May. what's going on? I thought companies made their products cheaper by producing them longer...

Ameyam

RE: Arf prices?
 

Just look at Hanger 9... they're taking things out their kits (retracts for example) and bumping up the prices. I fancied the new 60cc Corsair but £750 (UK Pounds) for a shiny film covered model that costs more than twice as much again to get in the air?? Reality check required [:'(]

RE: Arf prices?
 

Well, I am located in India. Our currency devalued 10%+ in the last quarter. Manufacturers will say that its more expensive to manufacture stuff in the east because labour costs are going up. But, salaries dont seem to be going up as fast as food prices are here. Now, I am not connected with the ARF manufacturing industry, I am just a flier and I have a unconnected day job. But I dont really see where their expenses are going up and definitely not at the rate their prices are going up.

Ameyam

RE: Arf prices?
 

Inflation inChina is bad right now.

RE: Arf prices?
 

I did a couple of scratch builds over the winter
The cost and time is well and way over any arf offered in the same
Category

RE: Arf prices?
 

I agree that scratch building does not save you any money over an ARF but the cost can be spread out over a few months so it's not as big of a one time hit. IMO you end up with a better built model that has been built with better materials. You won't be showing up at the field with a corbon copy of what someone else has either.

As for the cost of ARF's, I'm sure there are many factors but what comes to mind. For me is that sales are down due to the economy. When GP or Horizon places an order for 100 airplanes as opposed to 250 they ordered last time the manufacturer is going to charge more per unit.

RE: Arf prices?
 

Hi

The prices of ARFs have gone up over the years, I had Hangar 9 plane that I loved and crashed it, now I want to get the exact same plane again but it is $40 more just 2 years later [X(] You get what u pay for most of the time concerning ARFs, although this is not always true. For example Precision Aerobatics (PA) planes and Aeroworks are consistently $100 more for their planes compared to other manufactures. They are certain brands I wont buy because they bump their prices up just cas they think they can get away with it.

If I want to spend a lot cash for a plane I will go by a composite pay someone to build it for me and put the most expensive stuff in it I can.

Scott

RE: Arf prices?
 

Now if you buy lets say a Carden 40% kit or a 126" kit you will lay out $1500-$2000 up front and you will still need to build and buy allot of stuff before you finish it. I think the truth is ARFs are inexpensive for the instant gratification you get. There is an old saying, if you want to build, then build, if you want to fly, then buy... You spend your money and take your pick...

Bob

RE: Arf prices?
 

The bottom line is this: The U.S. Dollar is being devalued via inflated money supply. The Federal Reserve is injecting about $80 Billion per month into the money supply which has the effect of reducing the buying power of the U.S. Dollar. This affects the prices on everything, but especially on imported products....and most ARFs are imported. I understand this Forum is about our model airplane hobby and not about economics or politics. However our hobby/sport does not exist in a vacuum. ARF prices are rising because of realities outside of our hobby. In a few years we will look back at today's prices as the "good old days".

Best Regards
JC

I don't always fly R/C...but when I do, I fly FASST.

RE: Arf prices?
 

I never thought I would see the day when a .40-sized Stick kit wouldn't be available. I wish I had bought several in the day. The simple fact is that prices will go up. This cannot be escaped. Second, if you see something you like, BUY IT NOW. The day will come that it is no longer available. If you really like a plane, buy 2.

RE: Arf prices?
 

The OP and other respondents are not in the US and still have the same problem. While certainly the FED is directly hurting those of us in this hobby it only has a small effect on the rest of the world. The biggest problem, I believe, is that the cheap, unskilledlaborers in China (in particular) are demanding more money. And they are probably learning from our unions about things like work slowdowns.

RE: Arf prices?
 

Right now in China inflation is around 2.7%, and labor, material, andfood costs are all on the rise over there. When the manufacturer is forced to pay more to produce the airplane, then thosecosts are passed on to the dealers, and thusly on to thecustomer. This isn't a distributor (Horizon Hobby, Tower Hobbies, LHS) issue and nobody is suddenly gettinghigher profits with increased ARF prices.

RE: Arf prices?
 

A lot of it is related to the gas prices which have gone out of Control so Obama's relatives over in the middle east can get rich.

RE: Arf prices?
 

Absolutely no bearing on the question at hand andall of this is speculation. Thumb through a few of Tower'spast catalogs and you will see that even the kits have gone up. Top Flite 60 size kits have gone up $40-50 in the last year alone. The cost of balsa is at a premium right now and I would suspect that is why we are seeing so much of this so called light ply in arfs which is really some kind of flakeboard material that you can't even glue back together when it breaks. interesting site if you can get through the translation, sort of like trying to read some of the posts on RCU http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/js/f...sn/biggrin.gifIhave to keep looking to see if the poster is from another country because of all the spellig mistacshttp://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/js/f...wink_smile.gifhttp://www.balsafactory.com/

RE: Arf prices?
 

I have read (in more then one forum) most of the pricing issues are tied to the wind turbine manufactures buying up the majority of balsa in order to make the blades.

the RC manufactures have to pay more to get the balsa they need to make the kits, so we pay more in the end as well.

Bill S.

RE: Arf prices?
 

Your right but people in the USA won't accept that answer. I know several people who work for Hobby People and they confirmed this fact.

RE: Arf prices?
 

I visited west Michigan this past weekend and drove by a big wind farm. There were numerous huge wind turbines, but only a handful of them were spinning at a slow, lethargic rate and the rest we not spinning. This makes me wonder if we would ever get our money's worth out of those things. I have never driven by a wind farm that was fully operational, not even the ones I have seen in Germany!! I say that balsa could be put to better use, like kits and ARFs IMHO.

RE: Arf prices?
 

Yep, windmills and wind farms are the latest in the "green energy" scam. The only green thing about it is the "green bucks" that costs us to erect them for 30% use and the increased cost in electricity. The environmental wackos out here in SoCal were all so happy with the state mandate for renewable energy until a big solar station was proposed for the desert 50 miles from nowhere and they screamed about the destruction of the environment, so it's on hold. These people need to take a bath and get a job.

RE: Arf prices?
 

Certainly arf's have their place and probably always will. Kit prices have gone up too but IMHO more and more modelers are returning to building to avoid that big out of pocket initial expense and be rewarded with a plane they built with the quality they built in to it.

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Never mind kits, plans build!

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+1

I should know, I'm an engineer, and 4 years ago I looked into a job in that solar desert. Luckily, I stayed here in bankrupt Detroit!!!

RE: Arf prices?
 

Gas prices affect everything since it has to be shipped. I do know what you mean about that light ply. Wont even hold a screw in it either, my eflite mustang has a lot of that crispy stuff. Have to soak it in CA.

RE: Arf prices?
 

Im not a manufacturer but at some point you would think it would be cheaper to assemble these things in the US rather than pay for all that packing and shipping. I have no idea what the cost comes down to per unit on a container full of 35% planes from China but I would imagine it wont be long before we can produce them at nearly that same rate. Skilled and willing laborers aside that is.

RE: Arf prices?
 

They are charging more because they (the manufacturer) can get it. When people stop paying for overpriced merchandise the manufacturer has two options. Sell at a lower price or go out of business. So as long as Johnny Q Public continues to buy at elevated prices the market will adapt to charging higher prices. When the bottom falls out the price will deflect the other way.

That said don't buy new unless you want to. Buy a used ARF at rock bottom price and usually you get more with it for a better price than just the plane. i.e engine and servos etc. Yes it's nice to have a "brand new" plane but how long until it does not look brand new?

What I am trying to say is that you have options out there.

My 2 pennies worth.

Glenn Williams

RE: Arf prices?
 

I just snatch few when they go on sale. Mfg's will put em on sale from time to time. Hangar 9 put a few models for $99/ea awhile back. Grabbed a p-40 and katana. Until money grow on trees, I'll shop wisely/cheaply. Its a hobby after all.

RE: Arf prices?
 

Maybe I should grow balsa trees....nah - I am in Wisconsin.
The increases have a lot to do with increased labor costs.
China is getting more expensive, the cost of living and need of workers
forces companies to pay more.

If they keep going it this pace, goods will be to expensive to ship and sell overseas in just a few years.
They might be importing our products later.

The cost of balsa has not had too much of an impact as the LHS guy wants you to believe.
It is still cheaper to buy an ARF then an incomplete kit, both made of balsa and some ply.

I grew up in Germany and had to save up for a long time to buy an rc plane, ARFs were outrageously expensive.
When I came to the US, I was surprised on how cheap everything was.

So with about 25 planes and 3 helicopters on the shelf I won't complain about the prices.
There is lots of competition between the manufacturers and it does not seem to be a controlled market.

To me it just don't make any sense that a kit costs a lot more then an already build plane.
I understand people don;t like to build anymore, but still - any plane started as a kit and shipping a small box of sticks
is a lot cheaper then an arf.

RE: Arf prices?
 

X2
Supporting mfg's asking stupid prices is optional. Even the most absurd put them on sale once in a while (Christmas?).

RE: Arf prices?
 

Hangar 9 and AeroWorks ARF's have always been more expensive!

I fly Futaba....for the most part.

To Horizon Hobby's credit, Hangar 9 ARF's are more detailed and scale-like.
But, if you want a deal, buy a Tower Hobbies, Great Planes, or Pheonix Model ARF.

Happy flying.

RE: Arf prices?
 

Its the ole Wholesale Retail Mafia thing all over again.
Once upon a time the manufacturers didn't direct sell so it birthed a Whole network that didn't want to hassle with clients off the street so it in turn birthed a retail network which is essentially loathe to do much so they just pass on costs and inflate the price until things stop selling and around we go.
Then came the web enabling people to sell directly at fair prices then along came people like the Chinese who did the web with aplomb. Now everyone is used to this trading they are drifting back to the bad ole ways and around we go as hobbies end up dying out.

RE: Arf prices?
 

to me it's just basic economics 101, law of supply and demand, supply for what ever reason can't keep up, several reasons have already been given, high fuel cost, higher shipping cost, labor shortage/wages, material shortages/higher prices etc etc. Is it just me or has anyone else noticed that hanger9 has dropped a lot of their ARFs lately?

RE: Arf prices?
 

Same with GP/ Tower. Some of the best ARFs like the Reactor 46, Ultimate Bipe 50cc, Yak 50cc etc are all gone. The remaining arent that great fliers.

Ameyam

RE: Arf prices?
 

Maybe this will shift some modelers to build that have not built before.
I have had a couple of ARF's, both were not built well. I will not buy another.
I have been building for 45 years now and still find it very relaxing and rewarding, to create from scratch, something that can fly.

RE: Arf prices?
 

Seems like they only want to sell small electrics. Tower used to have a great selection of planes, arfs or kits.
I think I'll get bored with the all the plastic toys on the first half of their catalog.
And I don't want to pay over $100 for a hand full of plastic.
So the less real planes they sell, the more people will buy elsewhere.

Tower is a great company and has very good service, but the selection is not what it used to be

RE: Arf prices?
 

While that true in the end they can only offer what their suppliers offer them.

I hope they (Hobbico) bring back more of the kits they used (Ultrasport 1000 comes to mind) to sell and the Goldberg line (Ultimate Bipe).

But part of that is supply and demand and from the guys in my club, there are very few that are interested in building a true kit these days.

Bill S.

RE: Arf prices?
 

I had talked to Horizon rep a few years ago at Toledo, asking about new warbirds and ARF's they said no axis planes (this was before the Me109 came out) due to poor sales/ low demand of axis planes- but The CMP 109 was sold out for the over a year due to high demand. Now their 109 does pretty darn well but with a whopping price-tag for a .60 size plane. Now they have released their new P-47 (which is a work of art -Actually looks like a Kyosho styled covering & build up), but at $369.00 for a .60 size ARF...I find it almost impossible to justify purchasing- Especially when ESM & the likes are that price (or even less) for a 72"WS bird of excellent quality.
Don't get me wrong H9- beats VQ & VMAR & Nitroplanes quality- But with electric retracts, their aftermarket struts, a 2.4 system, a 15cc gas engine and their ARF, would make their new H9 .60 size P-47 over $1000.00.
That's a lot of $$ for a "Hobby"...I started in this as a kid, and can afford such an addiction. However, this begs the question: How can a kid these days afford something like that ?
I'm all for building, but hardly anyone does it these days.
I fear with prices like that foamies may push out built-up planes from the market all together based on such absorptive costs alone.
This hobby should be accessible to our youth- Hardly any newcomers to our club know anything about building and Built up arf's are essentially disposab;e commodities given the lack of building knowledge. - but that's another conversation in itself.

I get the impression someone there said: "hey lets create a .50 size class that is really a .40 size class and we can bump up the price of all the other lines too- it's a win win for all Horizon models".
They brought in their .50 class birds and priced them as .60 size birds so they could charge 1.20 price for their .60 size planes.
I understand inflations, rising costs, and all that - ( I also know that ARF's in the USA are less than most other countries) However, I still think someone is getting taken advantage of here.
If anyone ever complains from Horizon that sales are not as they had hoped...maybe it's because they price their new over $100.00 too high.
I rarely rant- but these prices make me sad for the future of our "Hobby".

RE: Arf prices?
 

Personally Idon't likeARF's. I also can't stand some idiot coming up to me at the flight line asking whose ARF my custom designed, constructed and finished thoroughbreds are. I don't answer dumb questions like that on principle alone.

HOWEVER, some aerobatic ARF's, dare it be said, have come quite a way in terms of quality. Quality to memeans excellent, preciseconstruction at a lighter weight, from good materials.

Look at Extreme Flight's planes for example. These are well designed (in US) and constructed (in China) models. The owner of EF took the required time and made the effort to teach exactly what he wanted in his planes to the Chinese builders. Even if he made kits available not many kit builders can buildthe kit of any of these models as well. Why? Because when companies get serious about running an ARF campaign of, say, 250 planes, the building company will often build assembly jigs. Not only do assy jigs facilitate assembly and quicken the construction, they provide the means to buildwith great precision.....

One more intangible thing is emotional attachment. Labors of love can hurt when they eat dirt. Plunking down money for something hurts much much less when the something bites the dust. Some might even say it doesn't hurt at all but as always, YMMV

RE: Arf prices?
 

I started in this hobby decades ago when the only thing available were kits or scratch build. As time progressed the quality of the material supplied in a kit diminished and the same applied when purchasing material at your local hobby shop. I'm not posting to debate the issue just pointing out things I noticed. Arfs started on the scene little by little and eventually replaced the kit market. Why do people constantly bash ARFs and at the same time praise the 3D community. Without the ARF there would be no giant scale 3D models.

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The manner in which I approach a purchase is Cost/hours needed to fly.............so I purchase an ARF for $200 and it takes me 20 hours to assemble it = $10 an hour for enjoyment............whereas if I purchase a kit for $200 and it takes me 200 hours to complete, that mean the kit cost me $1 and hour :)

Plus, I can't fly at night time, but I can build <g>

Just my $.02 worth

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Work slowdowns, Heck thay are taking their bosses hostage! I kid you not, you see that story about a south Florida man who owns a medical supply company in China and his workers held him for like a week and forced him into giving them severance, etc.....

I agree the "Cheap Labor" days are comming to an end

it's costing more to fly than ever for me, but still worth it:D

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Don't forget Segull Models.

great stuff, a little on the heavy side, but strong and good quality.

Made in Vietnam if I recall, good prices as well :-)