P-51 ARF Challenges
 

Greetings...

Well, I've posted comments about the overall quality of this particular ARF, as shipped from some country other than our own.

Notwithstanding all that, I simply shelved the airframe due to the one major challenge I could not overcome, (at that time). As shipped, both lite ply tabs on the two wing halves were snapped off at the leading edges. Since the wing is designed for retracts, no ply, blocks or other material is present to anchor dowels to attached the wing to the fuselage. I went over several scenarios but none suited me and I wasn't about to strip the wing and rebuild it.

Then it dawned on me. Why not simply cut two new root ribs from 5-ply birch and laminate them to the halves? So I did. I traced onto
3/32", cut 'em out on my band saw and sanded smooth to the wing panels.

This will increase the span slightly but solves my wing attach dilemma. Now, maybe I can finish the warbird and actually fly it. The SK .80 had been mounted on the nose for the past year, patiently waitin' it's first few drops of fuel.

I just thought I'd share this so anyone else with a similar situation due to shipping from foreign, (or domestic) lands might be able to get their airplane working again, lol...

PM

RE: P-51 ARF Challenges
 

What brand is it? Also, you get what you pay for. If you buy a Hangar 9 or WM 60 size P-51 on sale for $100, you get a deal. If you buy a 60 size POS on Ebay or anywhere else for a $100, you deserve what you get.

RE: P-51 ARF Challenges
 

What an interesting reply.

This post was to assist others with similar scenarios. I don't recall stating what kinda deal I got when purchased.

With a few exceptions, most ARF's today come from other countries. I believe the brand name on the box has little to do with the situation as I described it. When I alluded to the overall quality of the model, I was attempting to deflect comments like those just brougt up. Guess I failed.

I can relate countless stories on quality, high-priced ARF's that had crunched tail cones, (Zero's), crushed wing ribs,(Ultra Sticks),
cracked cowlings,(Sukhoi's), etc., etc., etc. It don't matter what you pays for it...it matters how it comes outta da box it's shipped in.

My post has nothing to do with how much or how little I paid, friend. It does concern the c-o-n-d-t-i-o-n as received upon
d-e-l-i-v-e-r-y and overcoming that challenge as a consequence of that shipping.

Caveat Emptor is great advice...

Folks just love to say you get what you pay for as a panacea for all things, relevent or not. Here? Not.

PM

RE: P-51 ARF Challenges
 

Okay, so what brand is it? Others may want to avoid similar scenarios. I don't mind at all stating that you get what you pay for because it's true. I did not ask what you paid for the plane. If you go outside the "norm" of things, your rolling the dice. Ordering a plane from China, thats a 50/50 deal right their. But then again you could get the same box of "kindling" from Tower,H9 , WM,DP but at least your chances of recovery are greater here than their.

When people make purchases from companies like Nitroplanes/Raidentech or whatever it is they call themselves. You may come out smelling like a rose or you may come out with a horrible stink. Stating that you shelved the plane because of a problem leads me to guess it was some form of internet deal that was not worth the aggravation of returning it, if you could at all.

PS Looks like a good fix but if your not comfortable with it, use dowls or both. You also may want to consider running a strip of fiberglass cloth around that thing top and bottom. Don't trust the wing joiner alone to hold up.

RE: P-51 ARF Challenges
 

Don't mind Cyclic...he's full of really good advice but he can sometimes seem a little "brisk" to the rest of us. It probably has to do with an ex-military background, but that's just a wild guess [sm=spinnyeyes.gif]

RE: P-51 ARF Challenges
 

Over the years I've had many conversations with consumers wanting to return merchandise that they made bad buying decisions on. I was a retailer and involved in retail management for over 30 years, in one form or another.

The one thing that all that has left me with is that once I buy it, it's mine. I'm 53 and I can count on one hand, the things I've returned due to my bad buying decisons. Oh yeah, I've made many bad decisions but have only had recourse to want a refund or exchange, rarely. In modeling? I've returned a 2-56 pull-pull for a 4-40 and that's about it. The idea of sending a kit or ARF back because of shipping damage only gives the boys in brown another crack at it, lol... In fairness to those that use the return option regularly, I would have filed a freight damage claim had the wing been crushed but that would have been with the carrier, not the supplier, (or maybe the supplier would have to file since they were the ones that shipped it).

I realize I'm not mainstream on this. Today's economy and mindset is, "take-it-back"...mostly perpetuated by large retailers insecure in their marketshare. A lifetime guarantee is good for who's lifetime? Yours, mine? Oh well.

My knee-jerk rebuttal was simply a reaction to what seems to be the primary thread that runs through almost every post regarding any ARF...money. Value is a perception enjoyed only by the person doing the investing. The rest of us can agree or disagree as we see fit. At the end of the day, the fella what wrote the check makes the final call.

I truly wanted to keep my post away from "good deal-bad deal", cheap vs value and the like. Something was broken and I figured out how to fix it, nothing more. I just gotta think that I'm not the only one that has faced a similar condition out of the box. It's hard to avoid a similar scenario when the guy driving the truck uses your carton for a footstool in his truck, :-)

What brand is the P-51? AK, something or other. I tossed the pretty, 4-color carton last year. The construction manual is in English but has no manufacturer's info on it. I shelved the the airframe because I had 2 other building projects going and didn't want to divert energies away from those. "Marie" was not a priority as I knew I would be stripping the basic color scheme to change it to my own liking eventually anyway.

Thanks for lookin'...

PM

RE: P-51 ARF Challenges
 

Nahhh, I'm just a jerk at heart.:D, I forgot about you, How's that P-47 doing?

RE: P-51 ARF Challenges
 

Cyclic: Have you considered that most of all the ARF's come out if the same factory in China made by the same twelve year old kids? Why is it when you go to raidentech\nitroplanes websites their planes look the same as h9's, tower's, etc? I think your initial response to PointMagu was harsh. All he was showing was a pretty ingenious solution to a problem with his P51. I for one think it was a good idea, and by the way I've bought stuff from raidentech and have not had a problem with it.

RE: P-51 ARF Challenges
 

My original comment was based on his opening statement. I am well aware of most of the 12 year olds building our planes. However Most of Raidentech/Nitroplanes Arfs do not look anything close to H9 and that P-38 is an embarassment. The only decent thing I have seen is that Bobcat. They got lucky because it is not a replica of anything.

RE: P-51 ARF Challenges
 

Well, here we are almost a year since my last post on this subject.

The AK P-51 Marie hasn't been a fun project. Mostly overcoming all the trials and tribulations I've already outlined. However, a buddy has needled and prodded me to complete and actually attempt to fly the plane so to keep him happy, (and off my butt, lol) I managed to get the airframe flight-ready( I hope).

Ever have a project that you, "piddle" with? Well, this was mine. I've changed so many aspects of the original airframe, (which admittedly, flies quite well as -is), I'm not sure what to expect. To be quite honest, I never thought to fly the thing, mainly just keep her as a bench queen to fill in between, "real efforts".

Anyway, I'm done. I stripped the wing filets off because I couldn't get the shape and finish I wanted so the fuselage has a lot of rippling where the fiberglass took wood along when removed. There are so many dents and dings from moving it from one end of my shop to the other over the past 2 years that she looks "war-weary" without ever seeing a drop of fuel, LOL.

I fully expect to bring it home in a bag. I'll be breaking in the new SK80 this morning but no flying until our club president is on hand to assist. he's remodeling a bedroom this weekend so I'll be messing around getting the engine settled in.

here's ehat she looks like, completed:

Have a great day!
PM

RE: P-51 ARF Challenges
 

Good to see you won out after all.

Your story is really illustrative of what our hobby has become.

We used to be required to build our own stuff if we wanted anything to fly. And we learned what needed to be done and how to do it from that 1st step. And after we crashed, we autopsied the remains and learned how well what we had done worked. Forget that scenario nowadays.

Today, the newbies buy what they choose to pay for. And all of them get something they're responsible for. And they've not learned the things that make that possible.

So now they take the sucker out and try to fly it and what happens? Same as in the old days. Yet, for some reason, nowadays a lot of them think the most important details are somebody else's problems. And I've yet to see a newbie autopsy his recently crashed airplane. But seen a lot of them post long descriptions around here.

Thankfully, PointMagu has posted a thread that opens up the learning process for discussion about this particular experience. And he's offered a valuable bit of discussion that actually is worth more than just a specific how-to on one model.

No matter what we pay for our ARFs, we really do need to learn that todays hobby requires us to learn some things about the design, construction, and preparation of our stuff. Because, ultimately, when YOU push that throttle forward YOU are responsible for what happens next. And we really can't expect the present source of ARFs to care one whit, or to actually know the difference between slapping Barbie Dolls together versus P51s.

RE: P-51 ARF Challenges
 

Hey, PM, Do Not expect to bring it home in a bag. If your Club President has any skill at buddy boxing, and is an experienced flyer, he's going to give that sucker a decent "preflight checkout". Our new models require quite a bit of looking over before their first flights. And everything that's not right can be fixed.

BTW, most really experienced flyers do not fly a brand new motor on a brand new airplane until the motor shows it is adequately adjusted and will run steadily at full throttle. So your check pilot really should also do some crew chief stuff before hand. Expect to spend some time before the first lift off doing sensible things that'll improve the possibility of success. I guess you really ought to be using everything you already learned as a Army Aviator that would apply.

Personally, I'm betting the thing is going to do fine.

RE: P-51 ARF Challenges
 

So true.

Price paid never seems to be a guarantee of quality when dealing with equally sized planes.

RE: P-51 ARF Challenges
 

I really do appreciate the replies I've received on the thread. At 54, I was figuring that the "instant pilots" with their instant airframes were swamping out the voices of those of us that have earned our wings via balsa dust, ambroid and X-acto cuts, lol...

The SK 80 fired right up and I ran 3 tanks, 48oz, through it nice and rich-like. I tied her butt to a picnic table bench, unfolded my canvas chair and traded stories with the guys while the engine was doing it's thing. It was a GORGEOUS breezy day so not much flying was done but a lotta BS sure was floatin' around.

Keith W. has a Hanger 9 Marie, stock, so he took photos of both on the flight line. He only flew once today but it sure looks nice in the air. Hope mine does as well. Naturally, mine is heavier due to the added plumbing and the tailwheel assembly. He flys his with a 4-banger so I'm thinkning mine will scoot abit faster. Again, we'll see.

I agree with the new-engne-new-airplane advice. I've been flying my Ultra Stick (rebuilt) with a brand new ST .90. 4 tanks through it and it's still coughing a bit in transistion.

Well, it's another week waiting for flying weather again. Hope everyone has a great one. I'll post more photos as things progress to the maiden flight.

Thanks again...it's ALWAYS great to get feedback to one's postings.

PM

RE: P-51 ARF Challenges
 

Please make sure the SK is running really well before you take the plane up. I tried an SK 80 and could never get it to run half decent so I replaced it with a Tower Hobbies 75 which I have had good results with. They pull my Stuka and P47 with good power and reliability. [8D]

RE: P-51 ARF Challenges
 

HI pointmagu if possible would like to see your plane at hagerstown pegasus club IS your plane AN O-K model co. falcongt

RE: P-51 ARF Challenges
 

Nope. AK Models.
The engine ran fine, maidened several weeks ago but she was a hand full. CG was obviously off. No damage but I removed all the gear and hung her up for other projects.


Thanks for the feedback

PM

RE: P-51 ARF Challenges
 

pointmagu I think I have A P51D model from what I can tell from the pictures Manufactured by OK models CO.LTD mine is A 2001 .45 size NEW in box the plant burnt down that made my plane IS the elevator horn heads is the tail and the wing tip that broke off on yours was it 3mm wide the wing joiner 3 parts ? let me know thanks falcongt