RE: H9 Sundowner
 

I'd like to hear how this plays out, not that I am going to do the same put the electric performance of it.

RE: H9 Sundowner
 

Now dang it, I told you my bench was full![:-] Just went through the manual. Again typical H9, everything well illustrated...typical ARF, straightforward assembly. However the first thing that caught my eye is the model provides two servo wells for the rudder, but illustrations only use one servo. First planned mod already is to modify rudder servo area and install a high torque servo set up pull-pull. Shouldn't be a difficult task at all, and should have pics up Wed or Thurs night. Also I guess I'll start a completely new thread for build since this one was just info. Haven't completely decided on engine yet,but I'm leaning toward the Evo 26GT. I have a couple of Xoar 16x10 props on the bin that should rip around the sky well.

NOTE: The firewall comes BLANK!! Template provided for Saito 1.80 and Evo 26, but no worries about installing something different. The lack of predrilled holes and blind nuts to mess with your "other than recommended" engine selection is a real plus. Looking like a winner already.

RE: H9 Sundowner
 

I hear people do this all the time (my Inspire has the same mod, I setup mine stock and have no complaints) but I have to say, I don't get the pull-pull conversion, especially for a plane with such a small (thus low force) rudder. The hardware looks quite solid, I doubt the rudder configured as-is would be any different in flight vesus a pull-pull configuration. I'm not trying to argue or question your decision but do you feel you could honestly tell the difference in the air?

Still jealous!

Jack

RE: H9 Sundowner
 

i got mine on 6-18-07 and there were only 50 planes shipped out as thats all they had and they were sold way before HH got them and there is no date as far as when they will have more i dont understand why they only got 50 but iam sure they will get more some day as for mine iam nor sure what motor or servos i will put in iam looking to get 150 to 160 mph out of this plane any help would be a great help. THE RUNNER

RE: H9 Sundowner
 

Reincarnate,

Any way you can weigh the entire thing for me (all the parts, not separate components, I'm looking for weight minus engine, mount and fuel really)? I'm doing an electric conversion and I'm trying to get the numbers into MotoCalc to start finding the best prop combination...

Thank you kindly,

Jack

RE: H9 Sundowner
 

jfetter...I'll get the weights up Wednesday night. Out of town on business today. My guess is going to be in the 9 lb. ballpark, but I plan on breaking the weights down for everybody to see individual components, and all up weight, minus engine and electronics.

RE: H9 Sundowner
 

Good to see I won't be alone in the electric setup of the bird.. :)

I am going to be using the Power 1.60 and Phx 110 hope to run about 10-12S in her.

Jeff

RE: H9 Sundowner
 

Tram,

Electric is the only option for me, I have converted maybe 10 planes in the past 4 years that I've been flying and I love it. I have a healthy collection of electric motors, speed controllers but most importantly, about $6,500 in LiPo's so after that initial shock, the rest is easy to swallow. The only thing I am still debating is the prop. MotoCalc (which is incredibly accurate, this has been proven by my last 4 builds which are right on the money as far as Amps and flight characteristics) shows a 17 x 8 or 18 x 8 is going to give the best performance but I am dying to use one of the Mejzlik 20 x 12 composite props with a composite spiner on this (nothing looks better). I wish Mejzlik made the e-props in smaller sizes, perhaps down to 17" becuase MotoCalc shows me burning about 1,100 watts when the plane's not moving with this big and agressive of a prop (though once in the air it shows an estimated 2,154 watts to the propeller with an estimated top speed of 92 MPH. We'll see...

Jack

RE: H9 Sundowner
 

You mind running the Power 160 through motocalc?

I'll probably start out with 10S of TP 3850's, maybe some 12S of the TP 3850's and then 10S of our 3850's also..

RE: H9 Sundowner
 

Tram,

There are many variations, the prop being a major one, you can change the characteristics from a plane that hovers to one that goes 50% faster than the hover-version by prop alone. Here are some numbers I pulled using your desired setup and what the best prop (combined power versus speed) would be;

Kinda' silly, PDF files are not suported so I had to save them as JPG to upload ;-)

Jack

RE: H9 Sundowner
 

Thanks for the specs.. :)

I'll be looking for speed on this bad boy.. Not really concerned with power.. :) I'll have to find the best speed prop for it.. :D

RE: H9 Sundowner
 

Wow, that loooks terrible, you'd think they would allow ZIP or PDF attachments on this site! Send me your e-mail address and I'll shoot you the PDF...

Jack

RE: H9 Sundowner
 

Looks like;

10S = 81 MPH with a 18 x 14 (1,371 watts out, 119 watts/lb. out, 2,603 ft./min. max climb)
12S = 90 MPH with a 21 x 14 (1,650 watts out, 138 watts/lb. out, 3,382 ft./min. max climb)

Jack

RE: H9 Sundowner
 

Sounds like I need to be on the look out for an 18x14.. :)

Have you tried out any of the Zoar Props?

RE: H9 Sundowner
 

The issue here is RPM's rather than the prop, for serious speed you'll need something that can crank out serious RPM's rather than the balanced RPM versus Torque that the outrunners (max RPM 10k) are best suited for. Considering the size of the plane and amperage required to really light it up, your now looking at the more elite motors, definitely an in-runner (normal motor, stator on the inside), probably a Neu or Lehner that can turn 25K RPM.

I haven't had any serious experience building an electric for pure speed, what I know I learned from trial and error and from reading a lot. In this case, the motor you have will allow the plane to hover easily with a 17 x 8 or 18 x 8 (you can meet the 150 watts/lb. sweet spot for solid hovering). Likewise you can get more speed out of it (and lose the ability to hover easily but certainly still have a great vertical performer) by prop'ing up and increasing the pitch. You can look at 3-bladed props as well but you'll never get the speed you seem to want from an outrunner designed mainly for torque (not a bad thing, most people want hover and full-on vertical)...

Jack

RE: H9 Sundowner
 

Yeh.. Totally understand what you are saying..

I guess we'll see what happens.. 80mph on it should be fairly quick looking.. :)

RE: H9 Sundowner
 

I have one of these left in stock that is not spoken for so if anyone wants it they can email me or call 479 410 2863. I will take $400 plus shipping.

RE: H9 Sundowner
 

hello guys iam going gas or nitro i would like to see 150 to 160 out of this plane any help with motor input would be happily taken THE RUNNER

RE: H9 Sundowner
 

jfetter...My wife is happy to know that I got home tonight, half a day earlier than expected. She was disapointed when I told her I had to get some specs up for you first! Anyway, here's what I've got for weights. I broke them down by major component just so everybody could see where the weight is.
Wing (both halves-tube installed)---2lb 5oz
Fuse and tail group---3lb 1oz (Add 1 oz for helmet head)
Cowl---8oz
Wheel pants(both)---3oz
Complete supplied hardware package including fuel tank(without motor mount)---1lb 3oz

Total airframe, no motor mount, servos, electronics---7lb 5oz

Electrics can deduct another 4oz for fuel tank.

Gas/glow (using H9 beam engine mount) add 5oz more.

I'm looking at running the Evo 26 in mine now that I have the weight data. The fuel tank is huge and the Evo(from experience) is a very fuel efficient engine, so it can be downsized a bit to save fuel weight. May make up some of the added weight for ignition, battery and muffler. Also think I'll use the DS821's and a 4500 mAh 6v as I already have them. Should still be able to keep it under the 14 lb margin. I am going to wait to decide on an engine until last to see what all up weight and balance ends up.

After closer inspection with packaging removed I am even more impressed. This plane is very well thought out. The framing is impressive, and the overall design quality is outstanding. As I said before, with the standard ARF mods (firewall pinning and glassing, gear blocking reinforced, soak CA where you can reach, etc) this looks like a winner.
I only see two issues both small. One of the ply spacers in the cowl was broken out, due to poor glue adhesion, and the mate line of the cowl/wing fairing is a little "blocky" Later pics in build thread will show this. For now thats all I have. Now I have to go apologize to my wife. Let me know if you need anything else.

RE: H9 Sundowner
 

I seriously doubt that you can get enough engine in this plane to reach that kind of a speed. Look at the specs again. It's designed to be both a speed performer and an acrobatic airframe. The wings aren't slim enough to be an all out racer in order to reach a larger audience I suspect. I doubt too that the overall airframe was designed for the kind of stress that a powerplant the size needed would generate. I'm far from being any kind of expert, but from what I've seen and the little that I do know, it doesn't seem possible. Good luck with whatever you try and keep everyone posted as to what you decide.
Check out an earlier response from bbrundle from Horizon regarding wing loading with only a 35 cc gasser up front.

Or stick a turbine in it. That would be cool!:D

RE: H9 Sundowner
 

Reincarnate,

Awesome, thank you very much for the weights, I guessed 122 oz. off the top of my head using similar planes and the average weight from H9's web page minute engine, mount. Surprisingly this was within a few ounces of your confirmed numbers.

Make the Wifey happy and then post some pictures!

Thanks again,

Jack

RE: H9 Sundowner
 

I can only hope to go that fast with the 35 hh said they got it to 130 iam thinking of tring the berellie gt46 scott who makes the motor says red line is 13000 not sure what to do will sit back and see what others do. THE RUNNER

RE: H9 Sundowner
 

Some engine discussions of the pylon racing-scale racing subthread. Maybe give you some ideas on engines and speed for this. The consensus is the 35GT will be the best for all out speed, but the jury is still out and the plane is new!

RE: H9 Sundowner
 

hey guys this is my first speed plane i have been at about 100mph but want go faster and dont now what servos i need to hold the elevator and other controlls at that speed any help. THE RUNNER

RE: H9 Sundowner
 

Hey everybody....

Good to see the interest in this airplane. As has been mentioned, the USRA is going to race this airplane at its Giant Scale Races this year. You can go to the website to learn more about the racing schedule... www.usrainfo.org

The Sundowner will race in its own class and it will be a spec airplane, engine, prop, and fuel class. I hope we get to see some of you come out and have some fun at the Giant Scale races, and maybe even put together some racing at your local club field too. Here's a quick cut-and-paste of the PRELIMINARY rules that we are working on. The issue that is most up in the air is the muffler. We are hoping to nail that down soon.

Here's what we have so far...


12 USRA Provisional Class: Hangar9 Sundowner F-1Lite Class
12.1 INTENT
To provide a low cost “entry level” Reno style F-1 racing event for all pilots. The Sundowner/F-1 Lite class is intended to provide a less expensive means of introducing “new “racers to giant scale racing and to increase membership in the USRA. Initially, The specifications have been developed to create a one plane and engine event that will provide a level playing field amongst the aircraft and place the competitive emphasis on flying and calling. Once a competitor has grown proficient in this class, they will be encouraged to move on to the Giant Scale USRA classes.
12.2 SPECIFICATIONS
12.2.1 GENERAL - All pertinent AMA / USRA safety rules apply. Servos operating all control surfaces must be of sufficient size with at least 69.5 in.oz. of torque. The battery capacity must be a minimum of 200 mah per servo. USRA engine safety cable is required.
12.2.2 AIRCRAFT – Hangar 9 Sundowner ARF kit with no modifications to the airframe. Model must be built according to manufacturer instructions including control linkages, tail wheel assembly, etc. Tape can be used to seal airframe gaps or openings. When in doubt, if the rules don’t say that you can do it, then you can’t.
12.2.3 ADDITIONAL AIRFRAME REQUIREMENTS
12.2.3.1 Landing Gear - Landing gear and wheel pants must be used unmodified as they come in the kit. Replacement wheels of the same diameter and width as the original units may be used. A cover may be fashioned to fill the space on the bottom of the fuselage where the landing gear mounts.
12.2.3.2 Spinner - Must be the diameter specified in the manual and of metal construction. No plastic allowed.
12.2.3.3 Covering – Covering may be removed and replaced with different color scheme to aid identification.
12.2.4 ENGINES – Evolution 35GT in stock configuration. No modification is permitted except for screws, spark plugs, prop washers and prop nuts that may come from any source. Carb must remain in stock configuration and the choke plate may not be removed.
12.2.5 Muffler – Muffler must be the stock production unit for the Evolution 35GT designed to fit in the Hangar 9 Sundowner kit. No modifications will be allowed.
12.2.6 Kill Switch – aircraft must have a manual emergency ignition kill switch (momentary push and hold pushbuttons are not permitted) visibly mounted on the exterior of the aircraft. Marking of the kill switch location is encouraged. All aircraft are required to use an on-board ignition kill switch operable from the transmitter, preferably operated by a dedicated servo. If a separate radio channel is not available the ignition switch servo may be slaved to throttle command via a "Y" harness however one servo cannot perform both functions.
12.2.7 Fuel Tank – May be any commercially available tank compatible for use with Gasoline. No bladder or bubble-less tanks. Fuel system must have provision for completely defueling aircraft prior to filling.
12.2.8 PROPELLER - APC 15x12 pattern propeller will be used and will be supplied by the race organizer. No modifications can be made to the prop. Shaft hole may be enlarged. If balancing is necessary, material can only be removed on the front side of one blade.

12.2.9 WEIGHT - Ready to fly dry weight should not be less than 14 lbs, 8oz.
12.2.10 FUEL - Provided by event organizer. A fueling station will be provided to de-fuel and re-fuel aircraft before they are staged for racing. The gasoline/oil mix will be 25:1 as specified in the USRA common rules for AT-6 and F-1GT classes.
12.2.11 RACE IDENTIFICATION - Racing identification will use brightly colored stickers on either the right or left wing panel. The participants will be divided into 5 groups each day and will place the appropriate sticker in the proper location on your aircraft. Each day these groups will be reassigned and the participants aircraft relabeled.
12.2.12 RACE COURSE - The standard 1600 ft. course is normally used for giant scale racing, however for smaller flying sites a 1200 or 1000 ft could be used. It is recommended that typical USRA race procedures be used. This information can be obtained via the USRA Internet site at www.usrainfo.org.



Let me know if anybody has any questions or needs some help!

KennyMac