Help with Bi plane, ailerons not working right
 

hello I have a Hobbico Ultimate bipe, its old, and never was put together, I just got it together and found out the ailerons are not working right. it has one servo that works torque type ailerons the bottom ( one servo in center bottom wing, ) then you have the horns on the out of the ailerons for the top wing, the bottom ailerons work fine w/o top hooked up but as soon as you hook up top then when you give left the left side goes to center, but when you give right and they go down they do not come back up.

same for right side, right aileron control they go up and go to center fine but when you give left control and go down they wll not go back to center.

Has anyone ever had this issue on a bipe before? what could be causing it?

Again works fine not hooked up with all 4

if you need a pic of what it looks like I can take any pics if it help you help me.

please someone help.

this is a 44 inch WS plane. both wings are sweep(sp?) back

'I was thinking about just putting the top ailerons so can not move and fly with just bottoms, do you think this would work? some bi planes only have bottom ailerons I know, we have a old Ace 4-40 bipe with only bottoms.

RE: Help with Bi plane, ailerons not working right
 

Sounds like there is just too much stiffness in the whole system. The control surfaces should flop down with gravity when they are disconnected. If they do not then you must do such remedial work as needed to make them do so. A good 5kg servo will help as will a digital type to assure that the servo is centering properly. Yes it will fly with only the bottom two ailerons working, but you need a bit more movement to assure good roll control. Use the inner holes on the servo disc, 100% movement (ATV) and adjust the aileron horn height to achieve the required movement. This will assure that the maximum torque is being applied to the surfaces.
Evan.

RE: Help with Bi plane, ailerons not working right
 

yes, you should dissconnect the servo arm and set up all 4 points and feel the movement control, it should feel free and easy to move left and right, if not you need to find the problemed area. also make sure you have a decent servo that has power.

RE: Help with Bi plane, ailerons not working right
 

Thanks for the replys, well the one side feel really losse, but still is not working right, I did not hinge the plane it was done and they had glue in the hinge line I got that out so have to try again today, I just have a really old JR Nes 507 servo, my father has a big ultimate and thats the servo init, it always worked fine, I questioned the servo myself and my father said it should be fine.

RE: Help with Bi plane, ailerons not working right
 

you will probably have to rehinge your control surfaces

RE: Help with Bi plane, ailerons not working right
 

Can you post a picture of the ailerons?

If possible, post a pic of either side in the neutral, right, left and stuck positions (Preferably a side-shot that shows the linkage and horns)

RE: Help with Bi plane, ailerons not working right
 

Okay, well its not together right now but will be later, i can post the pic of the airplane all together from lastnight to see how its set up.

this is the whole plane then the left side and the right. will post better ones later. maybe I can do a video to show how they are moving.

RE: Help with Bi plane, ailerons not working right
 

See if your camera has a Macro setting - that will let you take very close pics without going out of focus

RE: Help with Bi plane, ailerons not working right
 

it doesnt, that I know of. those were funny cause of the foresent light in my kitchen...

when I get back from hobby shop wll do a video of what its doing. and more pics. got to go get a longer top wing bolt.

RE: Help with Bi plane, ailerons not working right
 

Pick up a high torque servo while you're there.

RE: Help with Bi plane, ailerons not working right
 

Most digital cameras have the macro built into them. Look for a flower symbol, that is the standard symbol for macro for some reason.

Have you checked to see how much free play you have in the torque rods? Sounds like they are moving and not allowing the needed travel to go back to center.

Disconnect the servo and see how much free play you have from back to front at the rods. Not as if you're trying to work the aileron but how much wiggle the rod has. Hope that makes sense; it does in my mind but that is not saying much.

RE: Help with Bi plane, ailerons not working right
 

oh yeah my camera has the flower.

The rods seem fine, I had to open the hole ( the wings have a hard plastic that covers the center, and had to open it up yesterday as said the bottom ailerons work fine its the top that are not. I just cut about 1/8 inch gap between the ailerons and the inside/outside of the wing where they are and still didnt help. about to do video.

RE: Help with Bi plane, ailerons not working right
 

With your still pictures ~~ if you can, use a light blue background. Your background drowns out the main subject. ENJOY !!! RED

RE: Help with Bi plane, ailerons not working right
 

"Ackerman", put both of the control horns top and bottom wings on the same side (top or bottom) of the ailerons.
This may be causing binding when the top and bottom surfaces move at different rates or distance.

RE: Help with Bi plane, ailerons not working right
 

Oh yeah, right now bottom is on top and top are on bottom... hum, guess Could put the bottom one on the bottom thanks will try that

RE: Help with Bi plane, ailerons not working right
 

Something in the setup is binding and I recall that being an issue with an ultimate someone else had he had one set of horns that were longer and it caused the ailerons to bind when the top surfaces were attached. Or it could be a weak servo test the servo under load.

RE: Help with Bi plane, ailerons not working right
 

This also works with light gray, this is closer to the middle of the light spectrum the camera uses and you will get a better exposure.
Like Red said, "A uniform background makes the subject stand out more".

RE: Help with Bi plane, ailerons not working right
 

yeah, well as said in another site, we used these serovs years ago they were not such thing as a high power or high torque servo, now everyone thinks you got to have the best. guess I will end up trying a driffrent one to see.

here is a video, not the best.

http://www.youtube.com/v/FjcG7ZAuQTQ&hl=en&fs=1

RE: Help with Bi plane, ailerons not working right
 

I saw your video, something is binding! I would first swap the control horns sot they are on the same side of the aileron, so your linkage will move both ailerons the same distance. As I said before some one at my club was having the same issue, and the linkage was the cause.
Or it could be a weak servo and you can just disconnect the linkage to the ailerons from the servo and see it you have the same force and amount of movement generated by the servo in both directions of travel.
Another thing to check is that the servo horn is symmetrical and not an offset type used for aileron differential.

RE: Help with Bi plane, ailerons not working right
 

I watched the video again with the sound turned up a bit more, it almost sounds like your servo is stripped!

Still that may be a result of binding and not the cause of the problem, I still wonder about the Ackerman thing swap the control horns first. The more symmetrical the control linkage the better it will work.

RE: Help with Bi plane, ailerons not working right
 

Well I just took the servo out of another airplane that I been flying, I do not belive its striped as it works fine with just the bottom hooked up, I have two other bi planes here and one has the horns just like mine and the other has them both right at the trailing edge of the ailerons i am not sure how it should be. thanks for trying to help.

RE: Help with Bi plane, ailerons not working right
 

have you done this yet?

RE: Help with Bi plane, ailerons not working right
 

no, I tried to but the rods are not long enough to move the other to the outside as said have another plane here and there set up like mine.

RE: Help with Bi plane, ailerons not working right
 

I think its the linkage or something, I flew it today, it flew well but when you make a left turn it does not center back, it stays in that left turn tilll you give right. I made right rolls and it centers back to middle fine from right just not left.

I think I am going to try a 6v battery in my RX and see if it helps, and maybe figure out the linkage some more, but it did fly well, after my knees stoped knocking not been that neveors flying new plane in long long time, but wasnt sure it fly with wing insidence and all.

RE: Help with Bi plane, ailerons not working right
 

In looking what is happening it almost seems that maybe the linkage is slipping? How is the servo connected to the control rods? I have had issues with the control rod connectors that have a set screw that would seem tight but would slip under load. What I suspect maybe happening is that the connections have enough friction to hold while the lower ailerons are connected but when you add the upper ailerons the hinges are too stiff and the control rods are slipping.

In any case it is either binding or something is slipping. Check your control rod connections and the movement of the ailerons it has to be in there somewhere.